Jeff

If one thinks they are a +7 holding a -7 in check, then they are definitely going to run into a -9...

The answer to your question is in the following verses right after your Corinthian's quote... 1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:14-17‬ “Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.” Translating... The "way out" is found in realizing that "oneness" (in Christ). And as Jesus said, that "kingdom of God" is found inside of you. ‭‭

Everyone who stretches their "muscles" feels some strain. Many do not stretch and just stay in their little bubble where it is easier. As I said, you are on the edge of being able to consciously notice some of those energy connections to your surrounding environment, and it is possible to help you notice more. Can help out with some "oxygen" for those higher level hikes. Just send me a pm if you are ever interested.

Not all ancient writings say the same thing or have the same meaning. Using a modern idiom (or translation) is ultimately dependent on the level of the understanding/realization of the one trying to make it "modern". String theory or quantum physics do have some parallels, but that is more relevant at what most traditions would consider "formless" layers of manifest conscious/reality.

A better translation would be something along the lines of... In the beginning (time and space) was the "one", and the "one" was with the Dao, and the "one" was the Dao. The "word" is energy or form or primordial vibration. It is similar to the concept of the Heart Sutra, where form = emptiness and emptiness = form.

With such movement (or body scanning), one naturally hits the depth of the body that they are consciously capable of. When ready for deep "bone massage" they will hit it.

It is because you are on the "edge" of starting to energetically connect more with the world around you. The irritation is the subconscious sort of touching on it, but not quite consciously making it. Another way to think of it is that you are going higher in consciousness and since you are not yet used to the altitude (don't yet have the supporting energy flows), you have a tough time breathing and get tired. All good stuff.

I would agree that this chapter is about the "gateway" that leads to becoming an immortal. If you are interested in the specific steps around the gateway described here, I would suggest that you jump to chapter 28. The gateway described here would map to the "stream of the universe" stage in that section.

Why not do it? I am sure your version will resonate with a large group of people. We all seem to find what fits for each of us at the time that is right.

I like SFH's version of it too. But, to me the "valley aspect" is an important part of the meaning. It relates directly to the "two" that come from the "one". Being the valley of the universe relates directly to being an immortal (as will be found when we get to chapter 28). Also, as SFH sort of described in his post regarding how he received his version. The TTC is about far more than words. It is about experencial realization. And that realization transcends time or words. One just knows...

I have already done that in post 11 in this thread. But here it is again copied here... The valley spirit is the mother of all (10,000) things. Relative to time and space, she is external and present in all things. Search for her as as she is the gateway that leads to the realization of heaven and earth (enlightenment). (She is the pure "light" of pure reception (female principle), or completely unattached energy)

While I would agree that simply quieting your mind and just breathing is a great practice. I would suggest you consider also moving your attention all around your body while you simply breathe. Energy follows your focus/attention. No need to force anything, but the subtle subconscious attention will help breakdown stored obstructions and free up the flow.

Apologize for intruding in your discussion with SFH, but your comment above goes counter to the meaning of this chapter of the Tao Te Ching. As you can see in the words, it is specifically saying that if you find/realize the "gate", you will ultimately realize the Dao. Doesn't matter if it is today or 2500 years ago. This gateway is not like touching an elephant, but more like beginning to "be" the elephant. The valley spirit never dies; It is the woman, primal mother. Her gateway is the root of heaven and Earth. It is like a veil barely seen. Use it; it will never fail. Find it, use it, and it will never fail...

Yes, just keep letting go of all the "crap", and reside in the natural clarity.

Soon all will be apart of the Borg...

Ever read his last and hidden book? The "Red Book"? Some very interesting stuff.

Ok. With your additional requirements, sounds like that is a "no" to a baseline definition of awakening that Spotless provided. Could you define what you mean by things in your definition with terms like "pure knowing-ness" and what would be "it's display"? And with your three components of space, awareness and warmth are you effectively defining "Rigpa"? Thanks.

Here is my take on chapter 6. To me it is a very profound teaching and extremely valuable clue for all. The valley spirit is the mother of all (10,000) things. Relative to time and space, she is external and present in all things. Search for her as as she is the gateway that leads to the realization of heaven and earth (enlightenment). (She is the pure "light" of pure reception (female principle), or completely unattached energy)

I like this as a working definition for "awakened". When one is in the NOW, and no suffering with worrying about the past or projecting fears to the future. Or no "why me?" when stubbing a toe. Can the group agree with this concept as a working definition? I think where there may be difference is in what happens as that awakening is more fully realized. Some see it as the loss of any choice (God takes over and you never really existed), while others see it at infinite freedom (of choice to respond because not driven by those fears).

If you don't mind, what is your view on the difference between oneness and awakening? Thanks.

Here is a similar view to your point... "What is the Buddha’s path? It is the bodhi-mind, the mind of Nirvana. To walk on the Buddha’s path is to follow the path of the Great Enlightened One, the one who attained the Great Nirvana, the one who has reached ultimate liberation. Through great enlightenment, one sees all phenomena with pure luminosity. From the perspective of departing from all defilements, the Buddha saw the ultimate truth: the non-arising and non-ceasing of all phenomena. Through complete cessation, he achieved total peace of mind. This complete cessation does not mean that everything is extinguished. It is the cessation of all defilements and habitual tendencies. After achieving cessation, an Enlightened One begins a new life, a life of selfless service to benefit sentient beings. As practitioners, we must understand impermanence. Impermanence is the gateway to emptiness. Thus to understand emptiness, we must start with an understanding of impermanence. Emptiness, in turn, is the gateway to non-birth. By understanding emptiness, you will not be attached to life. In other words, you will transcend the two extremes and all dualities. In this way, you will be able to enter non-birth. Non-birth is the gateway to Buddhahood. Understanding non-birth, one will no longer be attached to life, one will no longer be afflicted by the miseries of life. One can learn and practice the Dharma in the cycle of birth and death and enter the path to Buddhahood." (Jen-chun: Great Bodhi Mind, p 53-54)

Either that, or they were always that ship floating in the water (not the water itself), waiting for that next iceberg to come along. But, such a view is for everyone to decide on their own... Being the water itself is a lot like being the valley of the universe (TTC - Chapter 28).

Sorry, don't have a list of 10 names for you. Never worried about such things. Perfected Ghosts? Never heard of such a term. I am sure that many have moments of surprise where they are personally effected and something does occur. My point is that in those moments they are not residing in what a would call a state of being/light. They are caught up in the local body-mind and not "free" or "awake", otherwise it would not have bothered them. Or, they hit an iceberg that was too big and deep under the water for their ship to crash through. For fun, maybe another chapter from the Tao Te Ching to highlight my point... CHAPTER 22 Yield and overcome. Bend but follow the flow. Empty yourself of everything, then you can full. Have little but gain a lot. Have much and be confused. Therefore the sage embraces the one. He sets an example to the world. By not putting on a display, he shines forth. Having no preferences he is open to all. By never boasting or bragging he can never falter. By knowing this and refusing that, He knows of the ways of man. Thus he can avoid a quarrel. The ancient masters were always empty. This emptiness was always whole. Yield and overcome and be forever full, and so all things will come to you.

Fair enough on the use of various terms like mind and subconscious. They either make sense to someone or not. That is why I also use things like iceberg analogies. But, I would disagree regarding someone being free and clear meaning that they would not be able to feed themselves. One does not cease to be able to do things, but instead is not whipsawed by autopilot emotional responses and individual desires. The Tao Te Ching describes it well when talking about a sage/immortal. CHAPTER 7 Heaven and Earth are still. Why are Heaven and Earth still? Because they are detached. The Sage is detached, so he is like Heaven and Earth; thus he is at one with all. Being at one, he performs selfless actions and so he is fulfilled.

Spotless raises a good point regarding all of the slightly divergent views being presented here and how specifc wording (while still only words) can matter. My view on the matter seems to be different than the broader group of posts, so here it is in my words... Subconscious responses like being described are a sign that one is still trapped in "mind". Random anger responses are also an example of the same thing. All that is perceived is a translation of the underlying energy/light being reflected (or translated) in the mind. When one is truly awake/realized, the underlying energy has no such automatic translation and mental emotional response. It is simply energy and one can respond to it or not. When one is residing in being/light, all such fears, guilt, anger, issues spontaneously dissolve as they arise as there is nothing left for it to "stick to". Or, the entire iceburg melts away even though ones depth in consciousness may not have been deep enough to consciously notice the whole iceberg (of fears/issues). Or, Self is pure and clear, and when Self is realized there is no ongoing perpetuation of "local" habits, issues and fears.