Jeff

Be like Heaven and Earth. Go with the natural order/flow. Don't get caught up in other people's issues and fears, see through them instead.

I would disagree, as this forum can be an excellent place to discuss a matter. But, it can be challenging for those who are attached to their views, as members rarely find simple agreement on topics. Best, Jeff

Yes, I can draw in or send out at the feet when focusing on it. But, it is more just sort of natural for me to extend. For me, it feels like very fine vibrations, almost like vibrating "light". Also, there is a very high pitched tone that can be heard when connecting deeper into the earth and focusing on it.

Fair enough... That is more specific and useful. How did he get it wrong in your opinion?

Ok, thanks for following up. They were 3bob's posts, so it may not be my place to respond, but the Swami is a pretty well known past teacher and authority on Kashmir Shivaism. http://www.lakshmanjooacademy.org

Why not endeavor to make a rational counter argument or explain your position, rather than simply insult other members of the forum?

Yes, but I felt there was some value putting a little literal context to your figurative response...

Breathing through heels is about taking in and sending out energy through your feet into the earth. It is about connecting and grounding off an extended base. Such things become very helpful when one has high energy flows.

Yes.

Volition is probably as good a word as any. In Taoism, what you seek is an aspect of being a "sage". Happy to eloborate... Think of it kind of like there are layers of consciousness. Residing at the lower layers, one is driven by more base desires or more classic ego stuff. While it seems like you choose things, it is mostly like autopilot responses. The heart (where you currently reside) is sort of the beginning of higher consciousness functioning. In some traditions, they would call that beginning to be wake up (not Buddhism or Taoism). The things that block or "obstruct" you from having free volition are those issues and fear based upon past memories. Getting more volition is the result of effectively clearing out (or letting go of) those issues and fears that obstruct from your true "sage" nature. Spiritual practices in various traditions are about clearing out all of that "crap". When you pick a tradition, you sort of pick their practices and tools for that clearing process. Your almost touching it could be a feeling of a couple of things. At your level, there are sort of two different directions that people go. They tend to be either more heart or mind based. This leads to either feeling more energy stuff (taoist like) or more quiet mind (buddhist like) as one goes to higher levels of consciousness. Additionally, there are some who feel a deeper opening in what I would call the "inner heart" or higher self. But, in all cases you can think of it like you realize more at a subconscious level and kind of know it, but can't quite touch it (or bring it into your conscious awareness). If you want, with your permission, I can do a deep remote energy body read on you and try to get you more specifics. Just let me know, either here on in a private pm. Also, here are a few words from the Tao Te Ching you might like on the topic... CHAPTER 22 (SFH version) Yield and overcome. Bend but follow the flow. Empty yourself of everything, then you can full. Have little but gain a lot. Have much and be confused. Therefore the sage embraces the one. He sets an example to the world. By not putting on a display, he shines forth. Having no preferences he is open to all. By never boasting or bragging he can never falter. By knowing this and refusing that, He knows of the ways of man. Thus he can avoid a quarrel. The ancient masters were always empty. This emptiness was always whole. Yield and overcome and be forever full, and so all things will come to you. Best, Jeff

I would disagree.

It definitely has a strong effect on the people around you. But, think of it more like you are radiating energy at many different frequencies. Most people are not consciously aware of that energy and just unconsciously respond to it. But, depending on the person and their own issues & fears, that response may vary. Most will be attracted to it, but you will find that some people will instead instantly dislike you. The energy is hitting some past issue or hurt of theirs and they subconsciously associate it with you and the energy flow.

Very interesting and profound question. But, as I am sure you are aware, such a question drives to the underlying nature of perceived reality. So the answer you seek, will be different from different traditions. Since you quoted post was with the buddhist concept of pure and impure thoughts, I will respond with a further response based in that perspective... Issues, fears, karma, etc... are stored inside the body-mind "bubble" that drive the sense of self. An impure thought is when stimuli hit those stored structures and there is an automated response. Someone says something and it resonate with you and you get mad. This is essentially cause and effect. More Pure thoughts are when you have cleared out the issues and fears to such an extent that you can make a more open and free decision in the world of cause and effect. Or someone says the same thing that made you mad, but instead you consciously decide how you want to respond as to what is best at that moment. In your morning pee example, there are sort of two dimensions to your question. Both the relative strength of the cause and effect (how bad you have to go because of how much you drank the night before), and also the level of your conscious "freedom of thought" based upon you relative mental clarity (level of pure thoughts). The greater your level of "pure thoughts", the more actual volition you have to not be whipsawed by stimuli hitting you. At a more personal level, you have reached the level where you have opened your heart or you could say middle dantien. So I would say that you have started to have limited degrees of what you call "volition". But, there is still a huge subconscious of "stuff" that is unconsciously driving you if you are looking for true volition, or being relatively "free" in the realm of cause and effect. Best, Jeff

Here you go... http://www.aypsite.org

Welcome Had many a good debates with Yogani myself.

I am with you on this debate. Dreams are really just local mind translations of the underlying energies. With increased mental clarity, dreams drop.

I think you have had some good insights. I would also agree with the way Dwai describes it. Sort of like the energetic aspect of the true self kind of cleaning the crap out of the way...

Have you had such an experience? Some shift like you describe?

Yes, they can become sort of "clogged" again. Getting caught up in issues and fears can do it. Also, there are sort of multiple layers (or sheaths) of such risings. One can continue to clear a layer before moving on to the next.

Agreed. Very difficult to have a very deep understanding without the direct experience. But basic stuff would seem to be ok to teach based on intellectual knowledge if that teacher had been taught by an experienced teacher.

I guess I don't really understand what you think we are understanding differently? As the text says... " Paurusa jnana is predominant over bauddha jnana because when you possess only paurusa jnana, even then you are liberated in the real sense. In this case, however, liberation is attained only after leaving your body. When, however, at the same time, you attach bauddha jnana to paurusa jnana, which means that, on the one hand, you practice on your own Being and, on the other hand, you go into the philosophical thought of the monistic Saiva texts and elevate your intellectual being, then you become a jivanmukta, one who is liberated while living." Paurasa is basically practical (heart) experience, while Bauddha is intellectual (mind) view. In KS you need both to be enlightened (while living). The heart and the mind become one. In ancient KS texts like the Triadic Heart of Siva, the word heart basically means heart-mind. If one has practical knowledge, and may themselves become realized after they die, it does not mean they can (or know how to) teach others. But, those who have the correct intellectual view can lay a basis for a student, so that when they have their own practical Paurasa they may become a jivanmukta.

I think it may be helpful to think of it as kind of two levels. Cessation of the "little self" and then if you have the right framework of understanding, that can expand to the full realization of Shiva. If one only has paurusha jnana (cessation of little self) in the Shavite view you get kind of stuck. With the correct intellectual framework (paurusha jnana), you may take a really long time (lifetimes), but at least not get stuck at the wrong/limited place. Very similar to the buddhist concept of the "right view" being necessary.

I apologize. I was responding to Rishi's comment. My mistake with typing on a phone. Will respond to yours in a later post.

3bob, I was responding to this statement of yours... "A teaching that takes us on a journey through the philosophy which seemingly holds contradiction in awareness and yet at the same moment see's all as already whole and complete." My point was that even though everything is "already whole and complete", that is a meaningless statement for those who have not realized it. I just quoted Abhinavagupta for the response because I think most would agree that he was probably the greatest KS authority. Best, Jeff

Abhinavagupta responds... "True, but even though it shines there, it has not truly become a conscious apprehension. Without conscious apprehension, even if a thing exists, it is as if it did not exist..." He goes on to say... "The question is thus appropriate because contentment (enlightenment) is not possible without a conscious realization. Contentment is of two kinds. The first is effected by means of absorption (samavesa) and consists of magical powers. The second is attained by reaching a condition of conscious heart-felt realization, and it is the state of being liberated while still alive." -Triadic Heart of Siva