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Everything posted by Jeff
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Meditating in this context is really more like residing or abiding. Not a doing with a intended goal. But, if you think that seeing things are impermanent and understanding that existence is a transcendental goal, I certainly have no problem with that.
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Agreed. Just trying it to the concept of Buddha describing "the way".
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Hi Juan, Just saw this and I hope you don't mind me responding to your questions. There is a direct relationship between meditation and feeling energy flows. Maybe think of it like two sides of the same coin, or different ends of the same spectrum. Most people are sort of clogged with issues and fears. When you meditate, you are sort of going deeper into your mind (subconscious). That increases the potential of finding those deeper issues and fears. Those fears are basically stored energy structures that clog the system. If you "let go of" those issues and fears, the stored energy is freed up and the pathways become more open. When people reach a certain level of openness, they begin to consciously notice the energy flow. Tantra is really more about energy flow between two "polarities" than specifically about sex. But, there is a natural polarity that establishes between men and women. Something like a purification loop can become naturally created, especially when the loop is based starting at the heart. Hope that helps.
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You asked me I thought Buddha was deluded regarding his path, I said not at all. Then I posted his words on what he recommend on what people should actually do regarding pursuing the path of enlightenment. Paraphrasing the above text, he said that one should... 1. Meditate 2. Follow the Dharma 3. Let go of desire And, that it is you who must make the effort to do so (no master can do it for you). When you do, you realize that existence is really just an illusion and will be free of sorrow. He calls this the shining way of brightness and clarity.
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Here is what I remember from Buddha on suffering (and death)... Whoever follows impure thoughts Suffers in this world and the next. In both worlds he suffers And how greatly When he sees the wrong he has done. But whoever follows the dharma Is joyful here and joyful there. In both worlds he rejoices And how greatly When he sees the good he has done. For great is the harvest in this world, And greater still in the next. However many holy words you read, However many you speak, What good will they do you If you do not act upon them? Are you a shepherd Who counts another man's sheep, Never sharing the way? Read as few words as you like, And speak fewer. But act upon the dharma. Give up the old ways - Passion, enmity, folly. Know the truth and find peace. Share the way. -Dhammapada
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From the Dhammapada - The True Master Wanting nothing With all your heart Stop the stream. When the world dissolves Everything becomes clear. Go beyond This way or that way, To the farther shore Where the world dissolves And everything becomes clear. Beyond this shore And the father shore, Beyond the beyond, Where there is no beginning, No end. Without fear, go. Meditate. Live purely. Be quiet.
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With the desire to escape suffering can one become a buddha?
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Not at all... From the Dhammapada - The Way The way is eightfold. There are four truths. All virtue lies in detachment. The master has an open eye. This is the only way, The only way to the opening of the eye. Follow it. Outwit desire. Follow it to the end of sorrow. When I pulled out sorrow's shaft I showed you the way. It is you who must make the effort. The masters only point the way. But if you meditate And follow the dharma You will free yourself from desire. "Everything arises and passes away." When you see this, you are above sorrow. This is the shining way. "Existence is sorrow." Understand, and go beyond sorrow. This is the way of brightness. "Existence is illusion." Understand, and go beyond. This is the way of clarity. You are strong, you are young. It is time to arise. So arise!
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Glad to hear that the impression has changed. Really just a lot of strong opinions here at the bums. Also, Brian warning you about getting a PPF was probably his knowing where the thread would head. As you stated in your earlier post, Kundalini itself is a very loaded word based on various new age concepts and sites describing the emotional horrors of it. Also, I would say that there is a large body of members here that are afraid of experiencing energy stuff in general.
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I agree. Especially when it is a new member. I think the bums would be a better place if more people shared their personal experiences.
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Then I wish you the best in the pursuit of your transcendental truth. For me there is nothing to pursue, no goal to accomplish, just crap (issues and fears) to clear away, but I am a pretty lazy and boring guy...
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Khechari, in the context of the quote (per Abhinavagupta), means that which, "while stationed in absolute unity, moves about". It relates the infinite and primordial vibration. To me the following words describe it and also the basis of Kashmir Shivaism itself. As Abhinavagupta explains... The nature of such a consciousness is its capacity for self-referral, and because of that, there always arises a spontaneous sound (dhvani) which is termed the supreme, the great Heart. That self-consciousness in the Heart in which the entire universe without remainder is dissolved, present at the beginning and at the end of perception of objects, is called in the authoritative texts the vibration (spanda), and more precisely, the universal vibration, and its nature is an overflowing in the Self. For that vibration, which is a slight motion of a special kind, a unique vibrating light, is the wave of the ocean of consciousness, without which there is no consciousness at all. For the character of the ocean is that it sometimes filled with waves and sometimes waveless. This conciseness is the essence of all.
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I think there is similar danger when one says that there is some cosmic or transcendental truth to be realized in the first place...
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I would agree that it was some good and interesting stuff. I think the challenge is that things get bogged down with this forum audience on the concept of Kundalini itself. The balancing of male and female energy sides is universal to all traditions and to me the most valuable part of the deleted posts.
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Bindi, If that is your definition of Kundalini, then I would agree with you. It is a self limiting trap. Best, Jeff
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Continuing with the theme of the OP... Abhinavagupta writes: "When kama (desire, passion) and krodha (anger, wrtah) are viewed only as aberrations of the mind, they constitute khechari-vaisamya, or heterogeneity of khechari. The samata or homogeneousness of khechari consists in viewing every object and state as the nature of integral Bhairava. The vaisamya or disparateness of khechari is due to the ignorance of the essential nature of anuttara, or the Absolute. When this ignorance is removed, then all limitations of the empirical consciousness disappear and with the disappearance of these limitations, even krodha, moha (delusion), etc. appear as the nature of the perfect divine Bhairava-consciousness. By kechari-samata, the aspirant feels divine presence everywhere, in every object, in every state, even in passion and wrath. It is an attitude which has to be constantly maintained. His whole outlook on life is changed." ~Para-trisika-vivarana, p. 51.
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Wisely said. Also, Kundalini is a word, and words often have different meanings to those who hear them...
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Hi Pilgrim, I am sorry to see that you removed your posts. Some very good stuff. I hope that when you get your PPF going that you repost your material. Best, Jeff
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I would suggest that you read the sutras themselves earlier in the thread. But, a few of the interesting ones on your question... 3.29. yo’vipastho jñāhetuśca The one who rules the wheel of energies becomes the cause of inserting knowledge in others. 3.30. śvaśaktipracayo’sya viśvam For him, this universe is the embodiment of his collective energies. 3.31. sthitilayau This universe is the expansion of his energy in objective impressions and in the dissolution of those impressions.
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Abhinavagupta responds... "True, but even though it shines there, it has not truly become a conscious apprehension. Without conscious apprehension, even if a thing exists, it is as if it did not exist..." He goes on to say... "The question is thus appropriate because contentment (enlightenment) is not possible without a conscious realization. Contentment is of two kinds. The first is effected by means of absorption (samavesa) and consists of magical powers. The second is attained by reaching a condition of conscious heart-felt realization, and it is the state of being liberated while still alive."
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I guess the subtle point I am trying to make is that one becomes fully Siva, not just realize a component (or aspect of). In "The Triadic Heart of Siva", Abhinavagupta describes the "ocean of nectar of enlightenment"... "He who by means of this teaching perceives on all sides the universe like a mass of foam in the midst of the ambrosial ocean of consciousness, he is declared to be the one Siva Himself" It goes on in a related passage... "The whole universe is set in your essence within the ocean, within the Heart, in the life-span. Let us win your honeyed wave that is brought to the face of the waters as they flow together."
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The framework of the traditions are very different, so I don't know that it makes much sense to try to compare to a Buddha. From my view, the text is pointing to one becoming as Siva/Shiva. This to me is a major point of differentiation of Kashmir Shaivism. Previous traditions sort of implied that one would "cease into" rather that "become as".
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Agreed. The Shiva sutras are also particularly good texts. Also, translations by true masters make a really big difference.
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Very beautifully said... But I would add that she is also the one driving the life experience that can teach brokenness... For me, the valley spirit is all of the "One" that manifests. As you said, the womb-like energy field of "all".