Jeff

Sounds like it would be an interesting discussion. I look forward to you hopefully starting a topic some time on your definition of highest emptiness.

CHAPTER 16 Empty the mind of everything, let it reside in peace. Being at peace you can watch the Ten Thousand Things rise and fall. They follow their natural path and eventually return to the source of all things. This is the way of Nature. Returning to the source is stillness, for Nature is unchanging. Knowing this constancy is having insight into all things. Not knowing this leads to disaster. Knowing the source, the mind is open. When the mind is open the heart will be open too. Being open hearted, you can act naturally. Acting naturally, you will be at one with the Dao. Being at one with the Dao, you will be at one with Heaven and Earth. Being at one with Heaven and Earth, you can become eternal. Although the body dies, the Dao will always be eternal. (TTC - SFH version) Empty the mind of all of the crap (issues and fears)...

Makes sense. But, in Taoist terms one must refine the energy to raise it to the higher levels. That refinement requires one to let go of those issues and fears (become sagelike) to be able to access and process higher energies. One does not skip dantiens, you fill (clear stuff) and move higher.

Ok, no problem on disagreeing. Also, I am not saying "saintly", just relative clarity across various frequencies/channels. Did you ever do any of that healing while you were in the middle of a temper tantrum? Or, was it when your mind was quiet and as you said let go of your "me-sense"? (My original point was that Jesus could not have been angry or having a temper tantrum and healed the guys hand.) Additionally, as we have discussed before, I would definitely believe that you could heal/channel as a child.

If one is able to submit to a higher power, then they have the clarity for the flow. To truly submit, one must have let go of the fears, issues and obstructions (individual sense of self) that would have blocked the connection, otherwise they would not be able to become the vessel.

Ok, thanks. Yes, we can agree that Jesus loved others...

One cannot heal beyond their own clarity. Subconscious issues and fears block/limit the potential for healing. If someone is angry, they are trapped in their own individual sense of self. In such a state, the energy gets wrapped up in the personal anger issues and you just end up sending the anger energy to others.

I am not arguing that Jesus did not experience emotions, just saying that the books/site you seem to be quoting are definitely taking verses out of context and hence giving a misleading meaning. As an example, look at the first verse you have quoted from Mark in context... “And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.” ‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:17-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬ In the verse you have quoted, It is not Jesus who is sad and grieved, it is the man who came running to Jesus. He is sad and grieved because Jesus tells him to sell his stuff and give it to the poor, and he doesn't want to do it (had great possessions).

Definitely nothing wrong with getting angry and having sex, but in your tradition, is it possible to heal others (physically restore a hand) when your own mind is filled with anger? Or does such healing require clarity of mind? Thanks.

Then that is energy passing through (as it should) and not experienced as anger. Anger happens when that energy hits some stored issue or fear and creates a subconscious reaction.

Very well said. Also, as Jonesboy pointed out... Ever yelled at or punished your kids to stop them from doing something stupid... When deep down you are laughing because you remember when you did the same thing yourself at their age?

I think you need to take the sutra that I quoted in context of the text of the Dhammapada. The text follows sort of a progression of early stuff and ends with describing the state of a true master. Dropping anger is not an early stage thing, but as one progresses and drops issues and fears, the mind naturally quiets and there increasingly becomes less things that cause automated subconscious anger responses. I am sure that you and all spiritual practioners have noticed that things that once made you mad/angry, with maturity can become kind of silly, and then even sort of funny. With increasing mental clarity, things like anger naturally drop.

When the mind is quiet, is it possible to become angry?

The people giving your bible study are obviously not familiar with things like energy healing. As any healer can tell you, it is not possible to heal someone when in a state of anger (certainly not at the level of rebuilding lost tissue and bone). For such healing, in Christian terms, one must be "one with God" and in that state, the mind is quiet with no individual sense of self to be angry. All healers of any tradition will tell you the same thing. No anger with healing.

I don't see how this quote is about Jesus being angry? It says... After looking around at "them with anger", (he was) grieved at their "hardness of heart" (the "them with anger"). It basically said that he was saddened by seeing the anger and hardness of heart, and then he healed the guy on the sabbath, even though it was wrong to do such things by the law of the Old Testament. This section is more about Jesus saying to do the right and good thing and not get caught up in the old law. The following verse (6) even goes on to say that even seeing Jesus heal the guy, they Pharisees were still angry and unmoved. It states... “And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.” ‭‭Mark‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think it is important to realize that there are many level at which you can read and perceive the words of Jesus. As an example, with Jesus "getting angry" and overturning the money lenders tables in the temple, at a deeper level it is important to remember that... 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. And the gospel is also about how one must stop worldly things (like being worried about money) to realize God. One must literally shift and anger is a natural emotion as part of that "over turning" process. But, actual anger itself as an emotion is just an automated subconscious response to fears and issues. As issues are dropped, anger itself has no basis and also drops. The Buddha describes it in the Dhammapada here... Let go of anger. Let go of pride. When you are bound by nothing You go beyond sorrow. Anger is like a chariot careering wildly. He who curbs his anger is the true charioteer. Others merely hold the reins. With gentleness overcome anger. With generosity overcome meanness. With truth overcome deceit. Speak the truth. Give whenever you can, Never be angry. These three steps will lead you Into the presence of the gods. The wise harm no one. They are masters of their bodies And they go to the boundless country.

Here is what I would consider a good definition for one who has truly realized "super consciousness". From the Avatamsaka Sutra... Great bodhisattvas have no attachment to Buddha and do not develop attachments; they have no attachment to the teachings and do not develop attachments; they have no attachment to lands and do not develop attachments; they have no attachments to sentient beings and do not develop attachments. They do not see that there are sentient beings, yet they carry on educational activity, civilizing and teaching ways of liberation; they do not give up the practices of bodhisattvas with great compassion and great commitment. Seeing buddhas and hearing their teachings, they act accordingly; trusting the buddhas they plant roots of goodness, ceaselessly honoring and serving them. They are able to shake infinite worlds in the ten directions by spiritual powers; their minds are broad, being equal to the cosmos. They know various explanations of truth, they know how many sentient beings there are, they know the differences among sentient beings, they know the birth of suffering, they know the extinction of suffering; while knowing all acts are like reflected images, they carry out the deeds of bodhisattvas. They sever the root of all subjection to birth. They carry out practices of bodhisattvas for the sole purpose of saving sentient beings and yet do not practice anything. Conforming to the essential nature of all buddhas, they develop a mind like an immense mountain. They know all falsehood and delusion, and enter the door of omniscience. Their knowledge and wisdom are broad and vast and unshakable, due to the attainment of true enlightenment. This is the insight of practical knowledge of equally saving all sentient beings in the ocean of birth and death.

Bindi, These words make sense in context. Jesus is not saying that he hates people, he is explaining about how the scribes and Pharisees had misled the masses to gather power for themselves and how it is terribly wrong to mislead others like that. To me, the words in this section are best summed up by Jesus as "cleanse first that which is within". Below, your paraphrased quotes in context... “Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:1-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬ Regards, Jeff

Or the same described in another perspective to help us remember... “Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.” ‭‭John‬ ‭13:33-34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Happy to put it in other terms if you would like. Your "conduit" would probably match to my "receptive". UDT and MDT refer to upper dantien and middle dantien (trying to stay more Taoist for the group). Also, very nice that you have such friend with a nature of instantly and joyful recognition. Sounds great.

Sure. Anything in particular? In Daoist terms you have opened the UDT. You are naturally more receptive than transmitting. Currently, have some activity/issues at the MDT that relate to how you view yourself in the world. In more chakra terms, you have your 3rd eye somewhat open. My guess is that you sometimes get vivid dreams and may even sometimes "see stuff". You are at a level where you might have even noticed my checking on you (maybe mind getting quieter), but would definitely be able to notice me with some realtime focus. Best, Jeff

No problem, I was just interested given that you had said that you were enlightened. In particular, since you had referenced Buddhism with your descriptions, I was interested related to Buddhist emptiness. But, your individual space ship analogy seems to be describing some other concept. Best, Jeff

You are starting to perceive energy flows beyond your local body. The red sphere was your mind trying to translate the energy into something that you could consciously conceptualize. It was not anything watching you, more about your focus and how you subconsciously translated your feeling/sensing it. The next time you see something like that, you may want to mentally reach out and touch it. Work on making it more two way which will help open more channels and clear issues/obstructions.

Very cool. Ok if I sort of remotely/energetically check on you?

So you would say that you are permanently now enlightened (24/7)? Hence the dharmakaya name? Thanks, Jeff