Jeff

My quote was in response to Wells post to TI that I quoted. It is not in response to the Jax quote from Norbu. the state of self-perfection shines with all its manifestations of energy, without ever having been altered or improved. This is the characteristic principle of Dzogchen. Not understanding this may lead one to think that Dzogchen is the same as Zen or Ch'an. At heart, Zen, which without any doubt is a high and direct Buddhist teaching, is based on the principle of emptiness as explained in sutras such as the Prajnaparamita. Even though in this regard, in substance it is no different from Dzogchen, the particularity of Dzogchen lies in the direct introduction to the primordial state not as "pure emptiness" but rather as endowed with all the aspects of the self-perfection of energy. It is through applying these that one attains realization. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu;Adriano Clemente. The Supreme Source: The Fundamental Tantra of the Dzogchen Semde It is that local mind translation of the "energy" that is being integrated (or obstructions cleared) that leads to the experiences of love, bliss, etc... that TI was describing.

Here we should speak rather of contemplation, the essential point of which is pure instant presence, or rigpa. The Dzogchen practitioner seeks to understand this state of presence through diverse experiences: of emptiness, of clarity, of sensations of pleasure, and so on. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu;Adriano Clemente. The Supreme Source: The Fundamental Tantra of the Dzogchen Semde

Yes, but it is also easy to misunderstand and get caught up in a bubble of "little self doing nothing". I believe Norbu's later part of the description in the earlier post is very import... "Finally, the practitioner's task is to integrate the state of knowledge into all his or her daily activities and to develop that capacity to the point of unifying the energy of the physical body with the energy of the outer world." This unification of the energy of the physical body and the outer world is a natural product of "ripening". It is not just some simple mental understanding or quiet mind.

I don't believe the hiding of threads should be allowed, particularly in an open forum section. In any area but the personal practice forums, the posts should belong to the individual members who posted them and to the community at large.

Makes sense... Or maybe from another view. As it "ripens" the perceived obstructions and prayer, mantra, etc... to help deal with them are no longer relevant.

Excellent point. A little more on the "natural state" related to this topic... Listen, great being! Do not meditate visualizing with your mind! Do not turn wisdom into an object of conceptual thought! It is of no use to mumble formulae or to recite mantras. It is of no use to form ritual gestures with your hands. It is of no use to concentrate on visualizing the radiation and re-absorption [of light]. Remaining in the natural condition, abide in unmovable self-perfection. Being in the natural state, nobody can correct it. Remaining in this authentic condition beyond effort means not acting, and precisely this is the supreme action. Those who understand this have no need to perform the various [ritual] actions: without acting they remain in the fundamental state. Whoever is in the natural state "just as it is" realizes the true meaning ing that cannot be altered. [This is the meaning of teshinnyid]: to means "authentic"; shin means "unaltered"; nyid denotes the authentic condition. There is no enlightenment outside the natural state. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu;Adriano Clemente. The Supreme Source: The Fundamental Tantra of the Dzogchen Semde As described earlier, it is more about being/residing...

Ti, Good question and to me it goes to the heart of what I have been trying to describe with Ralis. From my perspective, your distinction is described in my posted Norbu quote above. There is a "ripening" process and it is not just some mental understanding. "Mother clear light" is about when "the state of knowledge into all his or her daily activities and to develop that capacity to the point of unifying the energy of the physical body with the energy of the outer world". Regards, Jeff

Ralis, Maybe we can agree upon these words from Norbu... After having recognized one's own state, it is necessary to eliminate all doubts about it, not in a merely intellectual way, but rather through experience: instantaneous pure presence or recognition, called rigpa, must ripen and become more stable thanks to the various Longde methods tied to particular experiences of contemplation. Finally, the practitioner's task is to integrate the state of knowledge into all his or her daily activities and to develop that capacity to the point of unifying the energy of the physical body with the energy of the outer world. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu;Adriano Clemente. The Supreme Source: The Fundamental Tantra of the Dzogchen Semde Regards, Jeff

Agreed, which is what I have said from the beginning...

But now you seem to be describing "levels" or separation of recognized and unrecognized...

Maybe try it this way... Can one's perception/knowledge of Rigpa be obscured? Or is everyone always a knowing budda?

Yes. But, I think you may be misunderstanding me. I am not trying to define as separate, more like different levels of refinement. Just like the "space between two thoughts" is not rigpa, but it is an aspect of it.

Yes, that is what I attempted to describe with "being". Intellectual understanding would be the "seeing" part.

And that knowing is beyond the simple intellectual understanding of the mind. It is in many ways like the difference between "seeing" something and "being".

As many have stated in various ways, it should be remembered that Rigpa is not simply the space between two thoughts. That is just one aspect of Rigpa.

I have had experiences with many of the Hindu gods and goddesses. The first was with Krishna. He felt kind of like liquid plasma stone. Super grounded in motion... Best wishes.

I would agree that it is theoretically possible. Extended length of life is also the natural result of energetic balance. But, pursuing it as an end itself is based on desire and fear, and as such, one is unlikely to find the balance necessary to achieve it.

Same for me earlier, but seems to be back to normal at the moment.

Yes, very hard to believe that someone would put her in some type of plastic cooler/container if it was legitimate.

One shields against something if they are afraid and desire protection from it. You could easily say that your earlier "non-caring" feeling was basically shielding. Compassion is part of our natural state, but compassion is often misunderstood and easily becomes "attached" to beliefs and specific society views. Mental clarity is the key. With that rises compassion, freely flowing into the world without the personal mental perspective of attachment and suffering.

Zen is a rich and beautiful tradition. But as many (like Jetsun above) have stated, it comes down to the teacher and the "realization". The yogacara sutras that Zen is based upon are also truly sublime, full of deep and great wisdom. From the Lankavatara Sutra... The ignorant and simple-minded being fascinated with their self-imaginations and erroneous reasonings, keep on dancing and leap about, but are unable to understand the discourse by words about the truth of self-realisation, much less are they able to understand the Truth itself. Clinging to the external world, they cling to the study of books which are a means only, and do not know properly how to ascertain the truth of self-realisation, which is Truth unspolied by the four propositions. Self-realisation is an exalted state of inner attainment which transcends all dualistic thinking and which is above the mind-system with its logic, reasoning, theorising, and illustrations. The Tathagatas discourse to the ignorant, but sustain Bodhisattvas as they seek self-realisation of Noble Wisdom. Therefore, let every disciple take good heed not to become attached to words as being in perfect conformity with meaning, because Truth is not in the letters. When a man with his finger-tip points to something to somebody, the finger-tip may be mistaken for the thing pointed at; in the like manner the ignorant and simple-minded, like children, are unable even to the day of their death to abandon the idea that the finger-tip of words where there is meaning itself. They cannot realise Ultimate Reality because of their intent clinging to words where intended to be no more than a pointing finger. Words and their discrimination bind one to the dreary round of rebirths into the world of birth-and-death.; meaning stands alone and is a guide to Nirvana. Meaning is attained by much learning, and much learning is attained by becoming conversant with the meaning and not with words; therefore, let seekers for truth reverently apporach those who are wise and avoid the sticklers for particular words.

Welcome

There is no good answer in such a case, because she is stating that someone other than her husband turns her on with their interaction. My suggestion is that be honest and try to explain/discuss the situation with her husband.

Yes, alternate realities exist. They are much harder/deeper to access than past lives. Best, Jeff

Thank you for the video. It help with better understanding your position based in Mithraism. It seems that our perspectives definitely are more that a little different. Best wishes on your path.