Jeff

Vivid dream.

Not sure how you could have gotten that from my above statement (or any of my past statements). I am not saying that energy is being "developed" in Nirvikalpa samadhi. As I have stated earlier, Nirvikalpa samadhi is much more like what happens when you let air out of a ballon.

Bindi - if you look back, many posts ago I already described that as an extension of the sea analogy and then went on to explain it. As I have repeatedly stated, Nirvikalpa Samadhi is the natural result of residing meditation at higher (or in a sea analogy - deeper) levels. How about this one then... Like a burn and your muscles getting stronger being the natural result of going for a long run (meditation) while you enjoy the beauty of scenery as you go... Some traditions focus on the burn and muscle growth... Other traditions prefer to talk about the scenery that they see while running. One is about silence, they other is about the translation of energy. Ultimately, both energy and silence are the same thing, but it is not perceived that way until one has realized it.

This discussion does not seem to be going anywhere. I have repeatedly given analogies and attempted to describe what I mean, it is about "residing". It seems that the concept of residing is not resonating with you. May I ask, what kind of mediation do you do? How long per day? Let's start with your current meditation practices and try to build up from there?

I am not that familiar with his approach/teachings... But my guess is that he is saying to not "strive for the state", because in the desire for it, there is remaining sense of self, and it is not possible to reach it. I am not saying that Nirvikalpa Samadhi is residing with a quiet mind. It is more like a result of residing. More like after a while the air being let out of a ballon (local self). You naturally go deeper as you drop issues, fears and obstructions. The "how" is basically the point of various practices and traditions.

Again, I think you are misunderstanding what I have stated earlier. Nirvikalpa samadhi is not an "approach" to compare to some Taoist energy movement technique. It is more the natural result of residing/meditation. It will naturally happen to any advanced spiritual practioner (of any tradtion) when they have begun to "reside". It is part of the natural process of quieting "mind".

Because it doesn't really work that way. The issues and fears are subconscious, and if you could consciously access and deal with them, they would all immediately be gone...

Yes, welcome...

Maybe we just need sort of a baseline or starting point. Does what I said just above about Nirvikalpa samadhi make sense to you? Get what I am saying there?

It was an extension to my orginal analogy about Nirvikalpa samadhi not being really the same for everyone. My example of diving in a totally dark ocean, you can't see, so people go to different depths, but may think it is all the same. The workout analogy was in response to your "why" in followup. It is not possible to "force it" and realize Nirvikalpa samadhi. Anyone who describes it that way has definitely not realized it. Nirvikalpa samadhi Is more like the natural result of "deep residing" (or the old descriptions of meditation). In the diving deep analogy, maybe a better version would be like this... You are diving in a totally dark ocean... You are so still that you can even let go of all of the air in your lungs (personal fears - sense of self) ... Residing, you sink in the ocean until you sort of pass out (no longer have the energy flow to maintain that depth in consciousness)... That is Nirvikalpa samadhi. One has stepped beyond their (current) conscious level of ego/sense of self. There is still subconscious stuff there, and that is why you "come back", but you have a moment... And for some, that moment is like a seed that can sprout. Growing into the most beautiful of plants.

I don't quite think that you are getting my analogies. Yes, definitely about noticing, accepting and letting go of false identifications. But, one cannot realize Nirvikalpa samadhi by "forcing things". Such forcing or the movement of energy requires a "you" to do it. What I am describing is more about pure "residing". That is more the original meaning of the word meditation. Reside and just be... Let it all go...

As I said above, I am not advocating one way or another, but in the TTC, it is described here... CHAPTER 52 (SFH version) The Ten Thousand Things are born of the Universe, the Universe is born from the Dao. From whence the Dao came from, I do not know, but I know it exists. It is the Mother of Heaven and Earth. In silence and in the void the Dao formed Heaven and Earth. The Ten Thousand Things are formed by it. In silence and peace, one can feel and sense the mystery. Be forever at one, do only what has to be done and then remain at one. .... The increasing realization of "silence and peace" can have great value for some. Always diving increasingly deeper...

Welcome to the light...

If you do not resonate with such an approach, I understand your point. But, maybe another analogy to think about it like working out with exercising... If you want to get stronger and in shape, you push until the muscles burn...

Yes, on the deeper. But, in the analogy terms, the goal is more realizing that you are the ocean and not a diver in the ocean. And one can only reach deeper levels if they have let go of the "ignorance" (issues and fears) that obscure the clear vision of being the ocean. As you have said, there is definitely a huge risk in kind of developing a spiritual ego of some attainment. Kind of like believing that you are "done" or have arrived. If there are changes of state, then it is obvious of the "mind".

You raise an interesting point. But, what your above author does not say, and should be realized that Nirvikalpa SamadhI is not same thing/experience for everyone. A good analogy is like scuba diving in water when it is totally dark. One person dives down 10 feet, the pressure gets to them, and because they cannot see/sense, they think that they are at the bottom and it is all the same. A more experienced diver can handle more pressure and go deeper to 100 feet. More experienced divers continue to go much deeper... This is why many traditions talk about repeating (or going back). Whether there is usefulness to such diving, would seem to depend on the diver...

Welcome

Sounds interesting... Care to say more about your wandering one? Best wishes.

Ever think on which might come first? Maybe realizing Dispassion, leads to the control? Rather than the inverse.

Welcome. Why do you think that it is important? Especially if it debilitates you?

Welcome. Your presence and energy is welcome.

Think of it like two sides of the same coin. The vibrant energy/light (of Shakti) on one side and the perfect clarity of mind on the other. Those who pursue the path are usually of two types, either more heart based (energy) or mind based (clarity). Depending on your perspective, as wisdom grows or obstructions are cleared, one ultimately realizes that both sides (energy and clarity) are the same coin, and then the fun really starts...

Hi Niki, Your open heart is very welcome here. Best, Jeff

Welcome! On recommended readings, I am sure you will find a widely divergent view with the members here. Personally, I would suggest the Tao Te Ching and see if it resonates with you. But, depending on your specific tradition leanings, I am sure that you will find something that fits. No real organized meetings with this group... Best, Jeff