Jeff

If you are going to try to mislead people and quote me from other sites, at least pick posts that directly relate. Here is an older post on the mystical nature of communion with supporting text included(but I realize that you don't believe in any written words of Jesus). Have fun... http://community.livingunbound.net/index.php?/topic/210-communion-a-mystical-perspective/ edit... Just decided to post it here. No need to further mess up Bindi's thread... http://thedaobums.com/topic/40048-communion-a-mystical-perspective/

Hi TI, I stand by my posts in the context they were given. I get that you do not understand them. Best wishes to you, Jeff (Edit - iPad format issue)

I see you are now back to posting out of context messages from other forums. My responses in the thread you have quoted above was to a specific person who's perspective is based in his understanding of the Lotus Sutra (buddhist). I have known him for many years across multiple websites and tailored the response to his "framework" of understanding. The important thing is that he understood the response.

There is no need to compare to the Buddhist tantric Yidam practice. The practices may be similar in description, but contain some fundamental differences. I think part of the challenge has been with the word "merge" itself and the concept of more "oneness" with all has been lost.

TI, I have repeatedly answered your questions, both in the words of Jesus in the gospels and my own. We just seem to disagree, it is as simple as that. The instructions that I wrote in the previous post is the simplest form of what I teach and directly show. The more detailed version of the teachings can be found in the words of the gospel of Thomas and Jesus in the gospel. Best wishes, Jeff

Hi TI, This is getting increasingly silly. If you have questions for me, please direct them to me rather than ask Tom to speak or answer on topics for me. You may be a huge fan of Daskalos, but as I have repeatedly stated, what you and he are describing are vastly different than was Jesus describes as "light" in the bible. His statement of "Being able to visualize means you are mastering the light." is a perfect example of how much we seem to disagree. The light (of God) is not something that you make up or imagine in your mind. The light (of God) is beyond local mind. What Daskalos is describing is simple mental energy and I am sure every member of this forum can already visualize as he describes. One realizes by stopping the imagining, by letting go, by residing... Since you don't seem to like any quotes from the gospels on it, here are my words on the simple path... This body of ours is fleeting, Like a leaf blowing free in a strong wind. This mind of ours is empty and clear, Like the depth of open space. Relax in that natural state, Free of any attempted support. When mind is without any fabrication, That is the primordial light. Becoming familiar with this, Merging your mind with it— That is Christhood. Best regards, Jeff

Again, we are talking about completely different things. But enjoy your book. Back to my beer now, maybe I can even find 3bob and join him for one...

TI and Apech - This topic has already been discussed earlier in this thread. The practice is somewhat different, but similar to a Yidam practice. Here is the previous post... http://thedaobums.com/topic/39937-beyond-the-spiritual-heart/?p=661344 This is all getting really silly... I am off for a beer. But, it is an IPA for me, not a fan of light beer.

Sorry Apech, is this addressed to me or Or TI? If me, I don't understand what you are asking.

No, that is definitely not what I am saying. But way before one gets to that section of the passage, one must "make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower". When the inside and the outside are realized to be the same.

Thanks for all of the hard work. It is appreciated.

Hi TI, No need to continue on discussing the point, I realize that you find no value in any of the written words of Jesus. Also, I agree with you that there are infinite worlds and planes. You quoted Daskalos (think his real name is Stylianos Atteshlis) are you a follower of his? Seems significantly different than the Dzogchen practices you have posted on. Thanks, Jeff

Conscious or subconscious action, the intent is still there. Here are a few more words from the gospels which I offer for consideration to the group (and those focused on "powers")... If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. (1 Corinthians 13:1-12 NIV)

Wow TI... Randomly trying to invade people's personal space without asking permission... Very rude... Also, you are nowhere near my space now, so I have no idea what you are looking at. Best wishes.

I am sorry to hear that you consider Jesus's words in the gospels just a "dead book", because I think there is much wisdom in it. But, I agree with you that everyone should spend time directly with Jesus. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. (Romans 12:4-5 KJV) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:16-21 KJV)

Hi Bindi, Maybe you could translate/explain your post to me. I have no idea what you (or your scholars) are attempting to say on this point with the above words. Thanks, Jeff

Hi Bindi, Back to your original topic of the blue pearl. I thought this fitting from the Gospel of Thomas... 76. Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a merchant who had a supply of merchandise and found a pearl. That merchant was prudent; he sold the merchandise and bought the single pearl for himself. So also with you, seek his treasure that is unfailing, that is enduring, where no moth comes to eat and no worm destroys." Best, Jeff

I think you are describing something dramatically different than what is being described. Here is a description touching on it by Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas... 22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]." The "when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]" is describing the point. Additionally, you will see the order is after one has realized that the inner and the outer are the same.

Sorry if there was any confusion. Words/descriptions are alway challenging. Here is a description that is similar to the concept that Tom was trying to convey... http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Yidam

From your description above, it sounds like you and Tom are talking about completely different things. Also, since you did not seem to respond to the tradtion/source question, I assume that there is no lineage or tradition to support your position?

If you don't mind, what tradition (or source) are you basing your above views? Additionally, do you personally have such ability/experience?

Excellent point. It should also be realized that it really about the "recieving" (faith and trust in the divine), then any "doing"... “And Jesus went with him; and much people followed him, and thronged him. And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole. And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague. And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes? And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me? And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing. But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth. And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.” ‭‭Mark‬ ‭5:24-34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Ok, sounds like we have different memories of the discussion. Rather than a repeat of the "with any realization" thread stuff, I will just back out of this thread now. Good luck with your 3rd eye pursuits. Best wishes to you, Jeff

Correct. I mean it say that someone is at least beginning to have access to it. Definitely not a statement of being "fully open" as there is always more stuff to clear (or higher refinement).

Excellent point Or... Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.