Jeff

Hi Nikolai, If you wish to have a good basis in the teachings of Buddha, I would suggest that you read The Dhammapada. It is a very succinct and useful description of the Theravada Pali Canon of scriptures known as the Khuddaka Nikaya ("Minor Collection") of the Sutta Pitaka. It is said that shortly after the passing away of the Buddha his disciples met in council at Rajagaha for the purpose of recalling to mind the truths they had received from their beloved Teacher during the forty-five years of his ministry. Reading this text, you will easily get a feel for the "middle way" from it. Best, Jeff

The image of Christ. The bible also states the "heavenly man". The receiving is the Holy Spirit (or light of God). Hear is another gospel quote for you that might help with understanding the point... Romans 8:6-17 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. The "carnal mind" is often what I call "local mind". One simply lets go of the "fear" and the obstructions that create the suffering/bondage and is filled (receives) the Holy Spirit (light of God) and then is capable of realizing that one truly always was a "son of God" (Christ).

There are many such references in the canonical bible. Here is one for you to point... “And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:10-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬ Being "chosen" is about being ready to "receive". One who has an open heart that is not "waxed gross"...

What you are describing is the "lower" form mind based transmission as discussed in the OP. http://thedaobums.com/topic/31514-transmission-in-christian-mysticism/

The "chosen" are those with "eyes to see" or "ears to hear". We all are children of God, if we only pay attention. When one knows that motion and rest are truly the same, they are residing/receiving... “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” ‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thought this verse from the gospel of Thomas might be helpful... (Or shed a little light...) 50. Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"

I think we are describing slightly deferent things. In your terms, the soul would be above the UDT and sort of on a different quantum level. Or you could say that it is at a different level of refinement. As you are describing it, there is not really a major difference between a dantien and chakra. Both are sort of a mental mapping in (local) mind. Different traditions map the stored issues/fears in different "buckets" at the mind level. That is why different traditions have different numbers of chakras (3, 5, 6, 7 or 12, etc...). Think of it more like underneath it all you are a light blob that is obstructed. Clear away the stored energy structures of issues, fears and obstructions and you find what I am calling the "unified field" (light body).

Originally met the people as part of a forum like taobums. Then meant in person as part of a retreat. My guess is that you could get a group of people interested in trying here at the bums. Over the years, many here have been interested in similar types of experiments that have been tried in the chatroom.

Not familiar with Winn's course, but four or five years ago, three friends and I had pretty good success experimenting with the concept (and at one time successfully got a group of eight together). We found the greatest success with keeping the broader theme simple, rather than complex. Like everyone giving the intent to join up with a theme like "water" rather than trying to create some complicated situation or detailed experience. In such situations, someone in the group tends to be the strongest energetic "broadcaster" and kind of dominates the shared space. Good luck with your experiments. I will be interested to hear how they go.

I think that you have raised very fair points. I did not mean to say that it "real" as in things that happen in the physical world. More just that such experiences are a mind/mental translation of what is happening at deeper level. Kind of like the table in front of you, it appears (and is) solid to the touch, but at a deeper level you know that it is really mostly just open space with electrons moving very fast creating a repulsive field. And our mind translates it concept of a "table". I have had many such experiences that could be called mystical. Things like from spending time with many different "divine beings" to sharing energy and presence (that we both felt) with people on the other side of the planet. All such experiences were meaningful and helpful on my path. Best, Jeff

Excellent point. Any such percieved experience is not the primordial, but more the (local) mind translating an overwhelming flow into something that the mind can handle/comprehend. If one "sees" it or "hears" it, then one is not "being" it.

This is an excellent point. Or maybe said that they should not get too "attached" to their perspective. Everyone's vision, no matter the level, is obscured by their own obstructions (issues and fears). Too many "highest spiritually achieved" teachers seem to forget that...

Excellent point. Often one believes that they have consciously dropped something, but subconsciously it is all still there bubbling under the surface, waiting to pop up again when similar thing comes up.

No.

Sorry, just missed you...

Thank you for your continued definitions. As it relates to my original question, I take it that your response implies that you do not experience the "appearance" of things like chakras and energy? Or what you may describe as the relative increasing "purity" that leads to the sambhogakaya?

Thanks for sharing. Does not the Heart sutra say that Form = Emptiness and also Emptiness = Form? Is not "everything arises like a dream or illusion" only he first part of the Heart sutra? Don't buy into the concept of the three primordial wisdoms: essence, nature, and energy?

If you don't mind my asking with your utterly pure view, do you feel (sense) things like chakras and energy? Thanks again.

I am one who enjoys this stuff as much as you do. I found your above analysis both interesting and informative. Would you mind sharing which of the relative approaches you personally focus on and why you chose it compared to the others? Also, do you see them all leading to the same "place" (realization)? Thanks, Jeff

I would add that the truly wise know that the inside and the outside are the same...

I would also agree that there are two types of seekers... Those that are afraid and those that are not.

Hi KeinZaron, Welcome. What kind of issues have you experienced? Regards, Jeff

Very well said. But it should also be realized that sexual energy is also a form of primordial essence (an attached version). Too often people wish to only focus on "higher energies" and effectively ignoring (spiritual bypassing) the work necessary at all layers.

Could you describe more what you mean regarding "much of prayer is black magic"? Thanks.

Welcome to the party.