Stigweard

Tao Yin = Dao-In (pronounced dow-een)

So which of the following are in your view part of Taoism? ~ Nei Tan, Internal Medicine, ~ Tai Shi, Internal Breathing, ~ Tao Yin, Energy Channelling, ~ Chun Shih, Visualization or concentration ~ Fu Erh, External Nutrition, ~ Shing Jeau, Walking, ~ Fuh Chi, Internal Energy Maintenance ~ Bei Gu, to stop eating food completely, ~ Fu Chi, Intaking Natural Energy through breathing and swallowing ~ Fang Jung, Sexual Cultivation, ~ Fu Jyeo, Secret Talismanic Characters, Words and also Invocations, ~ Jing Tan, Golden Elixir, ~ Shr Jeah, Method of Exuviation into a New Life.

Ahh Nice selection

Welcome universal wizard, find a seat, how do you like your tea?

Awesome! It's obvious you are singing my tune on many levels. And the establishment of such a trust fund is precisely what I have on my mind. In fact this dialogue is the process in motion. And I do hear you when you say the real proof for people is in their own experience. But if I stand up and say "Qigong will improve your health!" then I'd better have some scientifically recognised proof behind what I am saying. Where do you live? Next time I am in the area you and I are going fishing

Well posted ... unfortunately this can't be considered complete scientific proof because there was no double-blind protocols in place. However it is a great place to start from and could be used as a basis authentic testing. This healer has obviously demonstrated his willingness to be tested in this way. Is there anyone in his area who would volunteer as a ground zero point of contact?

I'm cashing the cheques you are writing my friend.

Have a read of this incredible result published in "Medical Applications of Qigong and Emitted Qi on Humans, Animals, Cell Cultures, and Plants: Review of Selected Scientific Research": The Sun Qiuzhi and Zhao Li (Kuangan Men Hostipal, China Academy of Traditional Chinese Medicine, China), made a study of the effects of Qigong exercise as a therapeutic aid for advanced cancer patients with pathologically diagnosed malignant cancer. Over a period of six months, 97 patients practiced Qigong exercises and were treated with drugs, and a control group of 30 patients was treated only with drugs. For the Qigong group, 82% regained strength, 63% had improved appetites, 33% were free of diarrhea, 50% had increased body weight by more than 3kg, whereas the control group's rates were 10%, 10%, 6%, and 13% respectively. No placebo effect here. Pure scientific proof that qigong can help you achieve one of it's claims: Health. With great respect for yourself Ya Mu, can you see how this debate is based on opinions and thus it can go round and round forever? However, if you were to undergo one of the scientific studies like in the Qigong Institute you could actually say, "Well in the tests I have done it has been proven that my Qi emmissions have had this measurable effect on such-and-such conditions." What amazing credibility that would give to your services!

My view is that it is imperative that testing protocols are applied to the 'science' of Taoist spiritual technologies. Firstly because there is a poliferation of charlatans who are using the demonstration of qigong powers as marketing material promoting their schools, courses, services etc. For these individuals there is both a moral and, in many cases, a legal obligation for them to verify their claims. And secondly because, as I have stated before, if such claims could be verified we have a wonderful opportunity here to be able to initiate the collection of scientific data that would lead the way into qigong metaphysics. And to those saying that western science has no place in understanding Chinese Taoist arts, have a good look through the good work the Qi Institute has done. Study after study giving scientific verification of the health benefits of qigong, taijiquan, meditation, etc. I read here that people are regarding qigong powers as guideposts of cultivation. I say, "Let go of these fascinations and be mindful instead of the signposts of a wholesome being: ~ Health ~ Happiness ~ Longevity ~ Virtuous fulfillment I would travel the world over to learn from one who could 'prove' the had mastered these abilities.

Welcome yintherapy, find a seat, how do you like your tea?

Thank you for sharing Pietro.

Well posted my friend. Truly an admirable accomplishment to have sampled so many rendititions of the Tao teh Ching. May I suggest you add one more morsel to your collection. Ni Hua Ching's "The Complete Works of Lao Tzu", you will find Master Ni's illucidation to be wonderful guide. Thank you for this Gossamer.

True it is Criss was a little lax in that area LOL and he has paid for it. Damn expensive things those stooges

Sorry That was me. Baked beans for brekky ... you know how it is.

Just passing along what I have learned without comment.

WOW! If you said this in a room full of women I doubt you would get out with your gentry in tact. So you claim you can effect medical cures? Be careful my friend, I am sure your country will have severe laws in place about making such claims. Do you have the proof to back up your claims? Perhaps you would like to submit your abilities to the TaoBums science lab?

You touch on controversy here my friend. So are you say that a woman who was violently raped and fell pregnant should have the child? What about if the pregancy would kill the mother? What then? I believe we have to be practical here.

Observers can be controlled and manipulated. So let us be happy in the entertainment value of these great artists!

Excellently said! In my studies I have learned that the basic goals of Tao are: ~ Happiness ~ Health ~ Longevity As such the true measurement of a system of qigong is whether or not it promotes these basic goals. Can happiness be measured? Though it has a degree of subjectiveness many studies have yield reliable frameworks to measure individual and communal happiness. Especially regarding the alleviation of stress. Can health be measured? Yes it can and the bulk of the studies undertaken have focused on this area and there is a quickly growing body of data in regards to the health benefits of qigong. Can longevity be measured? Obviously it can. So the thrust of my assertion is this: Let us dispell the popular facination with qi tricks and abilities. Let us dash fraudulent claims against the rock of scientific perspective and let us give our undividing attention to the ways the spiritual technologies we have been blessed to recieve nurture the root of goodness and wholeness in our lives, in our families and in our communities. Great! Now find me someone who can pass a double-blind scientific scrutiny of such a feat and the credibility of your belief will gain weight in the world.

LOL my friend Firstly the likes of Criss Angel and David Blaine are far beyond my league and have a bucket load more cash to pull off their effects. They each also have a team of people working full-time with them in the creation and execution of their effects. Secondly, did they perform their feats under stingent scientific conditions? Remember that they would inevitably offer false 'proofs' to make it appear that it was all 'trick free'. But was it performed under independent scientific scrutiny? Thirdly, they are honest when they present themselves as entertainers. Though magician's will deliberately draw upon mystic traditions to flavour their work to create a lingering question around what they do. Fourthly, because they are honest about their profession as entertainers I have no desire at all to reveal their secrets even if I did know them. I have no beef with them at all, in fact I admire them greatly because they were masters at the art I pursued for a long time. They brought magic onto the street and made it 'real' and gritty and in your face. A whole new audience opened up because of them and I happily made tonnes of cash riding on their coat tails. Returning once more to the issue ... it is the folks who proclaim they are presenting authentic qigong powers as a means to attract followers and make $$ are the ones to whom I make my challenge.

No typo ... we have 7 lower Po or animal spirits and 3 higher Hun or heavenly spirits. I can only relate here what I have learned, I am certainly no immortal sage, and my direct experience in this area is limited. If we identify only with the lower urges and motivations we are ruled by the Po spirits, thus becoming more Yin using your terminology. If we cultivate properly we return the reigns of our life back to the Hun spirits and thus become more Yang. If the immortal practice has not been undertaken the Hun and Po dissapate at death with the Po spirits descending into the earth. If the Po spirits were overly charged through discordant indulgences then a 'wandering ghost' can be formed. Through excessiveness someone can even become a wandering ghost before they die. With immersion in negativity the Hun spirits can flee from the person leaving only the shell behind. I am sure we have all encountered such 'living dead'.

I have learned that, in an undeveloped person, it is the lower Po spirits that become a ghost whilst the higher Hun spirits reenter the subtle realms for their next evolutionary cycle. In an achieved person who has 'raised' up or sublimated their Po spirits to integrate with their Hun then, as a unified being, they can exit the reincarnation cycle as an immortal spiritual being, a Shien.

Welcome Andrew, find a seat. How do you like your tea?

In a good illusion the magician will offer what are called 'proofs'. These are demonstrations to apparently 'prove' that what is about to happen is done without trickery. Hence getting a spectator to check the paper first, washing the hands, showing the hands empty etc. These are all 'proof' leading into the illusion. I agree

A fair point Dean. However this is not the sort of guideline that is helpful in finding said 'real master'. If we were to institutionalise this as a principle then we can assume that anyone demonstrating an abiliity is automatically not a master. And does that automatically make someone who declines any demonstrations a real master? Surely not. So whilst I agree with the philosophical connotations of your comment it does not yield a reliable and practcical measuring stick.