Stigweard

Good point h.uriahr, I hear what you are saying You know very well though what I am saying so let's not get sidetracked by verbatim. The point of discussion is focused on people making claims of paranormal abilities with the expressed intention of attracting attention, fame, and followers.

I am with you in that I also believe in the infinite possibilities of human potential. And I have no intention of wanting to climb into the himalayas just so I can jam a thermometer up the rectum of an ascetic monk. What I am quite willing to do though is to challenge those self-agrandizing masters making claims of paranomal abilities to step forward and prove under the right conditions the validity of their claims. The equation is simple, if they make the claim then they have the responsibility to prove it.

Not forgetting of course The First Rule of Wizardry: "People will believe any lie; either because they really want to or because they are afraid it is true." Once again, until such 'masters' can come forward and perform their tricks under scientific conditions then no reasonable person should believe in their validity.

LOL ... this is exactly what I was saying over in the Question about spirituality and scientific testing thread. At best all we can offer here are OPINIONS. If I am convinced that it is a fake then no matter how much windbagging goes on you wont change my opinion, and likewise if you think it is real the no ranting from me will shift you. The bottom line is this ... until this same demonstration is performed under a strict scientific, double blind environment then it has to be considered....

And doubting the validity of testing could be a symptom of those who are afraid to have their cherished day-dreams brought into the light of clear perspective.

Welcome, welcome Miro, find a seat, how do you like your tea?

Welcome MrCanHead, what is the project focus?

Graci ...

Firstly I will say that Randi is an entertainer, a professional magician, so you have to keep in mind the James Randi Educational Foundation may be a gimmick for his own career. However, the protocols his investigations use are scientific pure and simple using stringent double blind procedures. And they provide us a wonderful opportunity. I have mentioned the below over in the "Myth Busting" thread: "I honestly believe that our greater society would benefit immensely from the rich wisdom and virtue of Taoism and Buddhism. However the proliferation of self-proclaimed masters showing off parlour tricks or making "Nutella in the shorts" claims of spiritual ascendency as means to attract attention, followers, and money tarnishes the credibility of these beautiful teachings." Here is the other thing... My own experiences have convinced me that such powers are possible with the right training and dedication. But we have to my knowledge (please correct me if I am wrong) no established body of accumulated credible scientific data upon which to build. And it is because of this that we witness day in and day out right here on our beloved TaoBums the incessant wrangling and mudslinging because all we can really do here is assert OPINIONS. Any opinion can be immediately placed into disrepute by a contrasting opinion. I think Billy Connelly is a foul mouthed SOB but damn he is funny!!! An opinion, and no sooner have I said it someone else can say, "He's a loser, Seinfeld is what you call funny!" And so on ad nauseum. But if we had a body of credibly tested scientific studies we could, without needless windbagging, say, "Yes this qigong is good for this." And another other practitioner could undergo the relevant training and achieve said result reliably and with confidence. So "Yes" I agree with the challenge in the first post. Those amongst us 'swinging our dingle' proclaiming their own abilities or the abilities of xyz master, step on forward, lets have a look at you. Not to tear you down nor to ridicule but because we are earnestly interested. We want to learn and we want to be able to start documenting in a way that gives us irrefutable proof so that we can cultivate our own way and leave a testimony and a blazed trail for those that follow.

Good o ... what pot do you use and what do you fill it with?

Scratchin' there No more!!! Momma said it was a sin. But damn it feels gooood!!!

Blessings and a happy speeding to Ryan. _/\_ Tien Xia Tai Ping

It is incredibly easy to fool people. I was a professional magician for 7 years. The 'trick' with catching the secrets of a magician is to scrutinize the actions that were not necessary. If I could truly set fire to a bundle of paper I would just get some one to pull out a random page of a random newspaper, place it on the ground and without fuss and without touching it I would burst it into flames. So let's look at what is not necessary here. His hands are empty, and if we are to trust the man who was examining the paper then there was nothing in the paper. However the paper is in a large loose bunch of strips. This is not necessary for the act so suspicion must first be placed here. Why is it like this? Obviously to conceal something or some action, and it does as you will soon see. The audience is only situated on the left hand side of the performer. Why? Is it perhaps because he will do something that would have been revealed to those on the right side. Let us see. From 0:30 through to 1:10 his right hand remains unnecessarily concealed. Why? This would not be necessary if it were real magic. Therefore his right hand is where the real action is happening. He covers it well though because throughout the demonstration his left hand continously shuffles the paper. Why? If the paper is always moving guess where everyone looks? That's right, at the paper and not at what he is about to do with the right hand. The sound also will mask any sounds his subterfuge actions will make. Notice where this chaps right knee is at 0:32. Then at 0:36 for no logical reason he shuffles back and brings the bundle of paper exactly over where his right knee rested. Why does he do this? How easy would it be, before anyone even showed up to this demonstration, to have secretly dug up a small piece of grass and place a small lighter in the hole, covering it up again with the grass. The ignition system is loaded. Now the key moment ... from 0:49 to 0:52 if you watch the forearm muscles of the right arm you see an unnecessary downward rotation of the right hand. He now has the ignition system in his hand. From 0:52 to 0:60 he makes extraneous movements with the left hand to create visual and auditory distraction away from the right hand's actions (i.e. lighting the paper and perhaps even reinserting the lighter back in the hole). From 1:10 onwards the trick is already over for the performer, yet onlookers are led to believe it is just about to begin. From here it is pure showmanship. It is a good illusion, but anyone of you could do it better than this guy with a week of training.

stuff happens to us like dandruff and itchy groins can tao be found there?

waalaa !!

Nice line of inquiry ... have done the same in the En*light*enment thread

welcome teh_tracy, find yourself a seat my friend, how do you like your tea?

I agree here completely. In this I suggest adopting the scientific method in examining the facts. When engineers meet they don't discuss opinions, they discuss proven facts. If one says, "This armature I have created can withstand 4000 pounds of pressure" then another engineer can take that armature, test it and say, "You are right." If I say the Taiji I have developed helps people relax in the best way then that can be tested one way or the other. In this way I see a research institute evolving.

Good call Trunk

Fair enough ... you are quite possibly correct. I am sure that if I were in your position I would think exactly the same. Now ... about that OuLong tea you were talking about ... mind if I have a cup?

Yikes! Coming right up...

Good o So here is our sweet teamaster with his stall at the public markets, people are trying his tea, some people like it and appreciate it authentic taste. But others spit it back in the teamasters face yelling, "This tea tastes like crap! And you smell funny!" What is the teamaster to do?

The WhiteMoon logging it at the full moon, how lovely Welcome, how do you like your tea?

All good Great minds obviously think alike. Would love to hear your ideas on what you think would be the way to go.