Stigweard

Forum Terms & Rules You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is: knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate. Also I believe I read recently that the Mod Team developed a "No Disrespect" Rule. And yet the Mod Team has decide that this the headline and content in this topic is "allowable content". Interesting... The headline is false, inaccurate, and defamatory. It is a complete misrepresentation of the associated project and Drew is filling the thread up with false, defamatory and offensive comments. And this is deemed OK by the Mod Team ?????? Interesting... Well seeing that this is now the precedent.... Drew ... The Fajin Project and the associated $1.5million Fajin Challenge is specifically designed to make fake masters put up or shut up. It is to force some accountability into an unregulated industry where anyone and everyone can make any claim they wish and hide behind the myriad of exit clauses that infest the art. To emphasize it is specifically about masters who claim they can make people bounce and hop away using their special "fajin" powers. HOWEVER ... just for you I will make an exception ... on 2 accounts. Your Guru, Chunyi Lin, is coming to Australia ... great ... and you claim he can do paranormal healing right? Awesome!!! In Brisbane, just a short drive up the coast, we have The Australian Skeptics ... and they have a AU$100,000 Prize ready and waiting for your guru .... http://www.skeptics.com.au/features/prize/ Also ... you have often spammed your creepiness of how you lurk around libraries and other public places thinking you can make women have orgasms at a distance (seriously mate this is really f***ked up) ... OK ... well that would qualify as a paranormal and slightly twisted claim ... but hey I am willing to play. How abouts you prove your bullshit in a scientific way and I will help you win big cash and get you on the Ellen Show where you can sit in full lotus on live TV and make a crowd full of women have orgasms with you !!! So Drew ... directly to you ... put up or shut up matey

Excuse me ??!! I find the headline of this thread COMPLETELY insulting and disrespectful ... I am personally offended that the moderation team has decided to allow this to continue. Stuart.

Drew, You are misrepresenting my views and the intent and purpose of the $1.5million Fajin Challenge (obviously due to the fact that you have completely failed to understand the purpose and intent). I personally find your deliberate denigration of me and the project we are running highly offensive and slanderous. Stuart.

Sure matey, that might be your definitions of Jin etc. ... which is all cool and groovy Give this a read: http://bit.ly/UFxSwU

Heya folks ... well I have bitten the bullet and launched a crowd-funding project through Indiegogo.com ... here's an intro from the page: http://igg.me/p/234394/x/1321552 "After 8-years of research and development I am very excited to break the news with you that I am ready to release a revolutionary new Tai Chi teaching method. This ground-breaking new method makes it possible for you to learn all the Tai Chi postures, poses, and movements virtually as if you were training one-on-one with a live teacher. I will be will be releasing this online Tai Chi course via a 9-part series of eBooks made available from my website, www.tai-chi-wizard.com. This will be accompanied by a video conferencing eTraining service where, using the eBooks and associated tools, you get one-on-one instruction with me helping you work through the curriculum at your own pace and ability. Which means all the health benefits of Tai Chi are now well and truly in your reach regardless of where you are in the world.

I am now quite convinced Dorian that, one way or another (though I suspect quite literally), you are merely a "sock puppet" of Gary Clyman.

Dorian, You like to throw the Fraud label around. Once again you have failed in reading, comprehension, logical argument, and proffering legitimate evidence. Once again: fraud / Noun Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. A person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities. Even in the above verbose attempt to make a case that I have been deceptive ... you have failed. In no circumstance, not one, have I been deceptive. Once again I will emphasize that from the outset I have provided complete access to all details and conditions of the challenge. I initially, and quite deliberately, chose to keep it nice and tidy and focused on the group over at Facebook. But even so, once again, evidence shows quite clearly that I have provided all links and access from the word go. To reemphasize there is not a single scrap of evidence to build any case of deception ... therefore your accusations of Fraud are baseless and slanderous. In comparison: Gary Clyman is making claims of accomplishment and of having certain qualities and he is prominently using those claims to make personal gain. Gary Clyman has not, to date, provided anything, anywhere, that would constitute credible evidence to verify the legitimacy of those claims. Gary Clyman has point blank refused to engage in any test that would produce credible evidence to verify the legitimacy of those claims. Add to this, Gary Clyman has issued direct threats of personal harm and violence at people who have insisted that he produce credible evidence to verify the legitimacy of those claims (I have the PM's would you like me to share them?). Therefore, in the face of evidence, Gary Clyman can be "suspected" for fraudulent behavior.

You really need to learn to develop some reading and comprehension skills ... at no time ever have I made any statement that if they passed the specific fajin testing protocol I have developed and fully disclosed will they automatically win $1.5million. I invite you to go back through every single comment I have made and please show proof where I have said such a thing ... please ... do it. There is absolutely no proof in any circumstance at any time that I have been deceptive about about any part of this project. I have fully disclosed links to where the documentation was and all details are fully available to anyone who checks. But of course you don't have a problem with making unsubstantiated claims do you Dorian? After all your guru earns his living doing exactly that. The testing protocol that I have been "attaching" with "The Challenge" is connected in the official document in this very specific way: Because you cannot produce any evidence that I have been "deceptive" under any circumstance, your accusations that this challenge is a "fraud" is completely false and unfounded. Therefore you are misrepresenting my comments either through malice or stupidity, though I tend to think it is a blend of both. Once more you are showing that your modus operandi is to shout as loudly as you can hurling insults and denigrations all the while failing to do the one single thing that would silence all skeptics forever .... ... provide credible evidence of your claims.

Really? Then I guess you typing on your computer (a piece of technology developed through "legitimate empirical evidence") is an object of faith belief is it ??? Do you own a car?? How would you feel if you found out that the safety standard certificate was just something someone made up on the spot?? You would like to know that it was backed up with some legitimate empirical evidence wouldn't you?? You live in the lap of luxury due to legitimate empirical evidence (aka scientific development), are you going to complain about all the conveniences you have from living in a modern Western world ?? I didn't think so...

It is quite clear what the challenge is ... where is the problem with helping someone set up a world tour and come home $1.5million richer? All the money is there and all someone claiming they can do their fajin bouncy-bounce rubbish has to do is rock up and do it in a controlled environment. Once again: fraud / Noun Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. A person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities. Therefore the only "fraud" in the equation are people like Gary Clyman and co. who are making claims and marketing those claims for personal gain. EVERY other industry must by law provide documented proof that their marketing claims are true and real. Why on earth do you think the Internal Martial Arts should be exempt from legal requirements?

I have updated the OP in this new thread with PDF's of details for you to download if you wish. The fajin that is being spammed about is most certainly paranormal by literal definition: Definition of Paranormal: If an ability or effect is beyond, counter or contrary to normal experience (i.e. beyond what the majority of people would consider normal) AND is beyond, counter or contrary to scientific explanation AND lacks verified scientific evidence (i.e. has not been demonstrated under a controlled scientific protocol and verified by a reputable scientific research organization) than it is by rights considered to be “paranormal”. Nice and easy.

I have realized that IMA (internal martial arts) folks are reifying Jin (power) in the same way as many Taoist folks reify Tao. By this I mean that they are trying make it a concrete "thing". You hear terms like ... emitting Jin ... or shooting Jin ... sending out Jin. It is the same error when people think that Tao is a "thing" that can be the "object" of worship. It is also synonymous that, just as Tao is not a "thing", Jin is also not a "thing", and just as Tao is more of a "way" or pattern of things, Jin is more of a "power". Also synonymous is that folks try and make both Tao and Jin something "special", meaning that it is something above or beyond mundane reality. Read more... http://www.tai-chi-wizard.com/the-tao-of-jin-in-tai-chi-chuan.html

Heya matey ... we have split off discussion about "The Challenge" over here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/27331-15million-fajin-challenge/

Actually I don't discount the possibility either. Let me be really clear that, personally, my fundamental intent is progression of the art. I love Taijiquan, I love Taoist philosophy and associated arts and I truly believe there is so much there that can benefit people from all walks of life. But, in my opinion, the whole art is being distorted and stunted by all the fakes and frauds who seem to have a free and open license to make any and all claims without being held accountable. It is both morally and legally a crime. Several years ago when I started asking simple questions like "where is the proof?" I was continuously attacked and denigrated for doing so by these "masters" and their groupies. Instead of simply showing credible evidence, which is what every other industry has to do, they continue to throw up a veneer of verboseness whilst never "coming to the party" in terms of evidence. I really am not out to attack or smear individual teachers, but I have to admit my methods of approach have become a lot more "ruthless" because of the crap that I have had to deal with. My patience and diplomacy is in short supply when it comes to wading through the nonsense that some folks put forth. These days I usually just go, "Put up or shut up" ... as you have seen.

Beautifully said !!!

Quite easily ... I am a Tai Chi teacher and "super powers" are nonsense. Do you think that there has to be "super powers" present for it to be "real Tai Chi" ??

Following on from the opening post ... Too readily, it would seem to me, people are wanting to believe in something special ... they would prefer the faith-belief in a fantasy rather just embracing plain old reality as it is. Tai Chi Chuan, for example, is such an exquisitely beautiful and philosophically rich art that you could study the fundamental principles your whole life and never once have to mention Qi or Shen or any other mystic concept. Please don't read this as me advocating against these terms or concepts, I am merely pointing out that there is massive corpus of knowledge to embody as a prerequisite before even starting to consider the deeper metaphysics. ~ Sung Gong, ~ Daolu, ~ Chan Si Jin, ~ Wu Gong, ~ Yin/Yang, Wu Xing, Bagua applications, ~ Tui Shou, Da Lu, etc. ~ Shi San Shi, the thirteen postures, including Bai Men, the eight gates, and Wu Bu, the five steps, ~ Wai Jins like: duan jin – breaking power, chuang jin – ramming power, cun jin – one inch power, dou jin – shaking power, chong jin – charging power, etc. ~ Nei Jins like: chen jin – sinking power, ting jin - listening power, zhan jin – adhering power, nian jin – sticking power, sui jin – following power, etc. ~ Si Zheng Tui Shou, the four hands of push hands, Peng, Lu, Ji, An, ~ Using all the above in Fangshen/San Shou, fighting application: Da - Striking, Ti - Kicking, Na - Grappling, Shuai - Wrestling. Crikey !!! That is a good 10 to 20 years of training right there, and all of it can be learned without the crazy talk of "super powers". My point here is that Taijiquan on it's own and without "decoration" is "enough", and personally I would much prefer an ontology grounded in pragmatic reality.

Hey there matey ... thanks very much for your well considered response. I actually appreciate what you are saying ... in the school I came through (Yang family, 3 generations down from Yang Sou Chung) ... the term Peng Jin wasn't used in the context you are talking about. Peng, though of course typified in the movements of Peng Zhou and Peng You, was quite literally any movement or expression of the body that opened up or expanded into the opponent. However we did have a term called Intrinsic Strength or Power, and I would explain it exactly the same as you have explained your Peng Jin above. I had the same conversation with Mike Sigman: Perhaps one of my predecessors in my lineage decided to drop the term Peng Jin for "intrinsic strength" so as not to confuse the bejesus out of students ... purely speculation. If this is the case, then I am more than happy to agree with you and shift my thinking in the side note I have made about Peng Jin in that article. I truly appreciate your view point in this

Awesome work !!! Now ... to return to some troll-free discussion of the OP... http://www.tai-chi-w...-chi-chuan.html

Keep talking Dorian you are doing great !!! Is the above what Gary Clyman told you ... that I have blocked him? If you, or your friend, knew about Facebook they would be able to go to the Members list and see that Gary is still a member and is still 100% able to post freely as he wishes. The only way to "block" someone would be to ban them from the group. In short what you have said above, and what Gary is telling you, is a LIE ... plain and simple. Not surprising really considering the level of conduct demonstrated by your "guru" and yourself. You and your kind obviously think that the winner of a debate is the one who speaks the loudest and makes the most insults. In the years I have been waging this "campaign" I have found that to be an invariable characteristic of "believers". It is a poor excuse for producing credible evidence. That is where you, Gary, Michael Phillips, Adam Mizner and every other "believer" will always come unstuck. You can shout at me, you can threaten me with violence, you can insult me all you want ... but all your vitriol comes undone when you have to face the pivotal question: ""Why is there not a single scrap of credible evidence that Gary's fajin works for real (i.e. in real combat or at the very least in a controlled scientific environment)?"

You are really funny Dorian, you continue to follow the script perfectly. Once again, instead of providing evidence of your claims about Gary Clyman, you are desperately looking for the escape route. Now you are trying to discredit The Fajin Challenge. Fine, go your hardest, I love having my claims thoroughly examined and "tested". From the outset I have been completely open with providing links to everything. I choose to keep things "contained" at Facebook regarding this project so the process is properly "peer-reviewed". Once again here are the links: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thefajinproject/doc/454984937873900/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/thefajinproject/doc/421119777927083/ Fraud: In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual. I have in no case been deceptive, I have nothing to gain from this personally, and neither am I attempting to damage another individual. To the contrary, I have been completely transparent about everything and I am giving any and all "claimants" a chance to win $1.5million. It is all there listed in the documents. LOL ... and if a "fajin master" can really perform their "schtick" in a controlled environment, why on earth would they worry about having to perform it multiple times?? Every time they prove it they scoop up more money!!! Think about it ... we could line up Gary for a world tour just proving his "fajin" and he comes home with an extra $1.5million. If you don't think it is real, if you think it is a "fraud" ... TEST IT !! I am begging you to test it ... please. Let's line up one of those organizations right now ... I have their contacts ... get Gary agreeing to it and LETS GO. But no ... instead of testing it you will just keep shooting your mouth off wont you? You and your fellow groupies are just way too predictable. In comparison ... Gary is intentionally being deceptive (i.e. making claims whilst refusing to provide credible proof) for the purpose of charging his rather exorbitant fees and prices. Therefore Gary is engaging in fraudulent behavior. In short, unless Gary Clyman backs up his claims with credible proof he is a fraud and should be treated as such.

Please Dorian, keep talking, you only serve to continue to prove "the level" Gary and groupies like yourself operate on. Yup Gary has been following the same worn out pattern: "brag, brag, brag, I'm the bomb, blah, blah, you are inferior because you can't do this, brag, brag, no I am not going to prove it, blah, blah, no I am not interested in winning $1.5million, blah, blah, blah." But I am sure people can make up their own minds: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thefajinproject/permalink/506489909390069/

Bahhahaha !!! I shall take that as a compliment because Q rocks !!

FYI ... I am talking directly with Gary Clyman now so no need to endure with Dorian's nonsense. You can follow the conversation here on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thefajinproject/permalink/506489909390069/

In my research for the Etymology of Wu Wei thread I came across this interesting passage: ---------------------------------------- Wu and yi are compounded in the word wuyi 巫醫 "shaman-doctor; shamans and doctors", translated "exorcising physician" (De Groot 1910), "sorcerer-physician" (Schiffeler 1976), or "physician-shaman" (Mainfort 2004). Confucius quotes a "Southern Saying" that a good wuyi must have heng 恆 "constancy; ancient tradition; continuation; perseverance; regularity; proper name (e.g., Yijing Hexagram 32)". The (ca. 5th century BCE) Lunyu "Confucian Analects" and the (ca. 1st century BCE) Liji "Record of Rites" give different versions of the Southern Saying. First, the Lunyu quotes Confucius to mention the saying and refer to the Heng Hexagram: The Master said, The men of the south have a saying, Without stability a man will not even make a good shaman or witch-doctor. Well said! Of the maxim; if you do not stabilize an act of te 德, you will get evil by it (instead of good), the Master said, They (i.e. soothsayers) do not simply read the omens. (13/22, tr. Waley 1938:77) Confucius refers to a Yijing line interpretation of the Heng "Duration" Hexagram (tr. Wilhelm 1967:127-9): "Nine in the third place means: He who does not give duration to his character meets with disgrace." In Waley's earlier article about the Yijing, he translated "If you do not stabilize your "virtue," Disgrace will overtake you", and quoted the Lunyu. "The people of the south have a saying, 'It takes heng to make even a soothsayer or medicine-man.' It's quite true. 'If you do not stabilize your virtue, disgrace will overtake you'." Confucius adds 不占而已矣, which has completely baffled his interpreters. Surely the meaning is 'It is not enough merely to get an omen,' one must also heng 'stabilize it'. And if such a rule applies even to inferior arts like those of the diviner and medicine-man, Confucius asks, how much the more does it apply to the seeker after [de] in the moral sense? Surely he too must 'make constant' his initial striving! (1933:136-137) Wu (shaman) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ---------------------------------------- In short, if you do not stabilize (heng 恆) than an act of virtue (te 德) can bring evil. What is firstly interesting here is the apparent (at least in my eyes) synonymous connection between an act of virtue and the act of divination, which was the principle role of ancient Chinese shamans. What is also interesting is that in my Shamanic training I was informed that, "you must stabilize your personality before you step into power. Because when you have access to power it will manifest in accordance to your personality." Note that stepping into power is synonymous with Daoist notion of embracing or encompassing one's integral self or te 德. It is the deep connection with true nature that empowered the individual to be able to "see," aka spontaneous divination aka clairvoyance, clairsentience etc. I will confirm this with my own experience because I opened my ability to "see" very young and because I was so immature within my personality it most certainly did bring "evil and disgrace". At least to me this reconfirms my enduring sentiment that the study and training of 恆德 heng te, stable virtue, should supersede and precede any attempts for mystical powers.