Stigweard

[img=http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif] There you go, cut and paste as required. Just don't overuse the poor little fella, I got him working hard enough as it is And I agree completely with what you have written here

Ahh see ... now here is a good start +1 Good on Master Wang (?? correct spelling) for stepping up to the plate. Undeniable that there is some great skill going on here. Critical thinking time. Firstly his assistant is suspect. He hits the dummy with 790 pounds of force saying that that is what he is going to hit Master Wang with, but the truth is that he only hits with 484 pounds of force. It would have been better to load the baseball bat to a mechanical devise so that the hits were exactly the same. Also at 4:14 you see that Master Wang is not hit with the outer parabola of the swing. He moved forward inside the arc of the swing enough to prevent the full force impacting. Note that the sensor devices on the bat are at the end, so whilst at the end of the bat was swinging with 484 pounds that is not the force that Master Wang received at the point of impact. Thus the 484 pounds needs to be rounded down further. Notice also that the assistant whipped the bat backwards after impact, which of course everyone assumed was because of Master Wang's "qi repulsion". But he used the same striking method with the ratan staff during the spear demo so this also needs to be given some consideration. Again mechanical instruments would negate this sort of human-influenced conjecture. Impressive sure, but not quite as impressive as it's made out to be. The spear feat. Firstly is it the same spear? We can only take their word for it, but that's just the magician in me being skeptical Regardless of that, a point of metal with 2100 psi pressure behind it into the soft tissue of the neck is rather impressive. The assistant's hit spiked the psi up to 2900 at point of impact. The assistant did whip the staff backwards the same as with the bat. However 2900 psi is still 2900 psi. So all credit where credit is due Final analysis: Next test for Master Wang ... 3 rounds with Randy Couture

Quaintly put, and I agree in full

The "problem" I have with fa jin demonstrations is that there is so much BS out there. We have dozens of wannabe's performing demonstrations that deserve Oscars, and as soon as anyone challenges these claims they are censured and ridiculed for asking the obvious (as I have discovered ). In my FB discussions one person did actually get my point: "I, personally, find it exciting that these skills are being brought out into the light of appreciation. This will clear the air of fakers, innocent misunderstanding, useless practices, and Tie-Chee. Also, this will allow us to appreciate the incredible science of the internal arts. I can't even imagine how much skill, time, and physical genius has gone into creating this system! It deserves appreciation by a wider audience than the lucky indoor few." In the wider martial arts world we are being laughed at all over the world. Taiji is just a big JOKE and it is all because we have these frauds standing up trying to say that what they have is the true Taiji. But as I pointedly asked ... where's the proof? And just me feeling a "Master's" touch is not enough. I am also a professional Magician and Mentalist, and it is frighteningly easy for people to fool themselves into believing in lie. Because there is a universal absence of scientific proof which can be used as a baseline tool for measurement, and because most teachers refuse to be tested for whatever excuse (most of them just BS smokescreens to avoid being embarrassed), we now have an open market for any idiot to step up and show a few clips on Youtube and declare himself a master. What's more scary is that there is a salivating market out there of willing believers who will max out their credit cards for the pleasure of buying into yet another fantasy. It's because of this that I have all but renounced my traditional ties and refuse to either learn or teach anything about Fa Jin beyond simply human mechanics. I have stripped my Taiji back to its barest essentials and am now mixing that with other styles because I will never allow myself to be caught in the trap of thinking that I can perform these "minor miracles" of Fa Jin. And yes I guess I am angry, furious actually, at this bunch of chaps who gather round slapping each other on the ass, telling each other how damn wonderful each other are without realizing the dishonor and shame they are actually causing to both themselves and the internal arts. What alot of these chaps don't realize is that I am part of the new generation of practitioners that are coming through. We aren't as bound to the Master/Student structure as they are. We question things and we want proof before committing time, effort and money a line of study. And we have the internet at our finger tips where we can gather and cross-compare info faster than ever. Taiji and the deep philosophy behind it has so many incredible gifts to offer the world. But it currently is shooting itself in the foot and making itself distasteful because of the proliferation of these frauds and charlatans. If I could get a bunch of these "elders" to get involved in the sort of research I am suggesting we could develop a foundation of credible research that would go lightyears to reestablish credibility for the internal arts. Because at the moment we are just seen as a carnivale of delusional clowns.

Thanks for sharing Dawei ... good luck with your healer ... hope it works Part of my "Agenda" is really about the chaps who are out there advertising their skills and generally making a bad name for Taijiquan and the internal arts through their fraudulent claims. Perhaps on a deeper level I am looking for my next teacher and I am just sorting the wheat from the chaff LOL

What a shame I can't hit that little button more than once.

Look see SZ ... we actually agree on something

..

Hehehe ... of course you are right in this And you have missed the point of what I am saying. The need for such an experiment in my mind is two-fold. Firstly yes because there are some frauds fleecing people of money who are also tainting this fine art with their BS. Secondly though because such an experiment would begin a collection of baseline data which could serve to advance skill and development. For example, if a teacher could pass the test then obviously what they have is the real deal and closer examination of their teaching would be beneficial to all.

Yup I am still hearing you. And yet the Taiji world is proliferated by folks who make a living pandering this stuff to salivating "believers". Why do you think this is?

Actually evidence shows that it only works on the believers. Please show me a single authentic clip on the net that supports what you are saying.

I'm hearing ya

Don't try and "fix" sometin that ain't broke. Is there something wrong with the way things are now??

Well guess what? I just got kicked from The Kwoon for making the above comment. My response to the group mod: -------------------------- Unbelievable David. I am truly amazed that you would kick my from that group merely because I have challenged some cherished beliefs. Why are you chaps so afraid of having some straight-forward questions being asked? If it is "disrespectful" to actually question so-called masters and ask them to back up their claims with some real-life proof then yes I have been disrespectful. It is also disrespectful for these chaps (perhaps you are one of them) to be dishing out their claims of fajin ability and then demand that everyone accepts their statements without question. This sort of protectionism and enforced ignorance has led to the advent of dozens of frauds peddling their delusions across the world. So if you want to talk about respect then that has to go both ways. I presented a valid question with all due respect and politeness, though yes it was deliberately challenging of which I will make no apologies. And then you and .... make attempts to denigrate me with comments on my age. Was that "respectful" David? And now you kick me from a group for no other reason that I have dared to actually ask some hard questions. Is that being "respectful" David? The bottom line David is that every style must be pressure tested if it is to remain practical and relevant. Instead of banishing the one's asking the hard questions you should be welcoming them, invite them even. Especially if it is someone like me who is passionately in love with the art in question as is merely wanting to get some research done to further enhance the authenticity of the art. But if you want just a bunch of chaps in your group who are just going to slap each other on the back and never ask the hard questions then so be it. That path is the path of stagnation David. I see you have just posted a Code of Ethics. Have you treated me by the standards you are asking for David? Be open you say ... but you have closed you mind to my line of inquiry. You call it a place for learning ... but you shut down the questions that could lead to greater learning for all. Hold noone accountable for mistakes, forgive you say ... and yet you try and punish me for only asking questions. Interesting David, very interesting. --------------------------

Heya Matey ... actually I agree with you in full ... just for the record

Something I wrote on FB around this subject: With all due respect to [names omitted] (and I truly mean this), the test protocol that I have constructed ( http://bit.ly/pznoDZ ) is an opportunity to get some real research and credible data together. At the moment there is not one single video clip on the web that I can find that gives the sort of clear evidence of fajin that would hold up in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. The question is "Why not?" You call it an advanced technology. So why is there a universal absence of any credible experimental evidence?? There is not one single research paper, not one single journal article, and not one single documentary to be found that outlines any amount of credible data accrued through proper scientific testing. Again "Why?" Again with deepest respect, you chaps are lauding claims that this is somehow a superior martial ability. And yet, once again, there is not one scrap of substantiated evidence to back it up. All we have is your videos of you and your students, which cannot be taken as scientific proof. I am deeply passionate about Taijiquan, but I believe this tragic absence of the scientific evidence for the "advanced technology" of empty force fajin is doing us all a disservice.

With "all due respect", it is poor form to get all cranky decrying our ignorance and then not sharing a single scrap of evidence as proof. This is actually the whole point of the topic ... WHERE'S THE PROOF??? Here's Michael Phillips' "definition": And here is him demonstrating: http://youtu.be/3CHCJjKjwMk Now is this, in your educated opinion, what fajin is?

Nope ... haven't bothered to even try because I haven't seen anyone apply this type of empty-force fajin in a real combat situation. What's the point of spending so much time learning something if it doesn't work.

Well written Aaron

It's an interesting sentiment, the "no fighting" one that is. I am glad my white blood cells don't get all philosophical and decide that my body isn't worth fighting for.