Stigweard

Just bumping this topic up for a friend.

Hehehe ... no, no ... just inputting some stimulation

Agreed Also to add to the discussion is the Daoist "model" of the Hun and Po spirits. According to the ontology the human being is a composite soul, meaning that we actually comprise of 3 Hun souls and 7 Po souls -- sanhunqipo 三魂七魄. The yin Po souls are said to be the more animalistic side of our nature that are concerned with simple organic survival and the satisfaction of base desires. At death it is said the the Po souls stay with the body and return to the earth. The yang Hun souls are the "finer spirits" that give flight to humanities higher aspirations. Often associated with a type of "higher self" that transcends reincarnation, the Hun souls leave the body at death to continue the journey of the soul(s). See also: A question about the Hun and the Po So to bring this to a personal level (because after all to ask the question "is there a purpose to nature?" is synonymously asking "do I have a purpose?") we must include the idea that, beyond the fact that nature subsists merely for organic survival, there is a higher, dare I say it, spiritual frequency of life. So the question becomes more complex: What is our organic/earthly purpose and what is our spiritual/heavenly purpose? Are they one and the same? Do we have to find the balance between them? Do we have to elevate the earthly purpose to become heavenly?

I have a new chap in class from England. He was somewhat shocked to see the level of contact that I use in training. I have to admit I borrow from the Systema principle of assume the worst and then layer back up to the best. As a practical example: With your partner start out with push-punches, focusing on "pushing" through the core of the partner with your fist. The recipient is observing their own body's reaction whilst the pusher is focusing on correct body structure for greatest force, correct placements of the fists and the right angles to send the force through the core of the partner. The push-puncher is trying to break the structure of the partner, forcing them to step. Drill this for 5-10 minutes swapping over roles. To progress the drill the recipient, once they understand how the body reacts naturally to the push, can start to resolve the push-punch by marginally beating the push ... they are still taking contact but the force no longer reaches the core of the body. To progress, or layer up, the drill even further the recipient can then start to "clean up" with the hands ... again the fist still can make some contact, but the recipient is using both body movement and simple hand movements to "brush off" the incoming attack. Of course, once both partners feel confident with each other's skill, instead of push-punching the attacker can start dropping in proper punches gradually building in speed and power. So the layers are: ~ Assume the worst that you are going to get hit unawares, use body movement to minimise damage (i.e. deflecting force away from internal organs if possible) ~ Getting hit but you just saw it coming, use body movement to minimise damage use hands/arms to deflect away as much of the force as possible ~ Getting hit but you are ready for it, use body movement and hands to deflect attack and position for counter For the Taiji players, with experienced partners this ends up like a full body, free-form push hands that uses the whole body. Give it a try, you will see your form come to life spontaneously as you train

Shot through the heart, and your to blame, darling. You give TAO a bad name.

Hmm let me see ... gotta be around here somewhere ... ah yes: What type of Daoist are you? -- Part 1 What type of Daoist are you? -- Part 2 Hehehe

My thoughts exaclty!! Huzzah!!!

Actually I "know" nothing of the sort. I have had experiences and I have learned what the Masters say, but I would never be as presumptious as to say that I "know" anything for certain. For me, whilst these experiences and teachings inspire my cultivation, I choose to neither believe nor disbelieve the possibility for the extension of the "mind stream" beyond the grave.

Great topic Steve!! As we can see, yes there is a great deal of obsession with maggot ridden, dead guys. However (hehehe) ... Let's say I want to learn to play classical music on piano. There's a couple of paths to take. Firstly I could just keep playing around with the keys and rely on my own inspiration. No doubt I would be able to create my own sort of music this way and, from a purely Dao-centric view, this might be just fine and splediferous. On the positive side it means the music could be spontaneous and free. On the downside it may lack cohesive form and harmonic balance. The other way is to learn from the classics of old, dead guys, to emulate their accomplishment. Once I have internalised these master works then I can allow my own inspirations to emerge and create my own music. The positive side is that my work would be well structured and sophisticated. On the downside I could be so ensnared by past structures that my work is stilted, confined, lacking in freedom and expression. Interestingly I have recently had a discussion with a Systema instructor who commented at how he would love to learn Taijiquan from me because his observation is that Systema folks could do well with some extra foundations in good form and connected movement. I responded that Taiji folks could do well with some of the fluidity and spontaneity that Systema provides. So there needs to be a balanced found on the scale of "piss off with the old, dead guys".

LOL yes he is dead. He died of food poisoning (wild mushrooms of rancid meat) and spent his last days vomitting up blood and shitting through the eye of a needle. He is nothing but food for worms and maggots.

True it is that Dao is the continuous unfolding and transformation of changing phenomena. In this it is very akin to the Buddhist dependent origination in that, because every phenomena is dependent upon the previous manifestation, no one thing can be considered "it's own thing". Now I am in no way trying to establish superior Daoist ontology, however in my learning the Daoist view of incessant change includes the observation that changing phenomena has a "way" about it. Meaning that there is a pattern, rhythm or harmonic to how life evolves and changes. A pattern that seems to be prevalent in all life from the smallest to the largest of manifestations: Observe the Taijitu and the Bagua: The intercourse of Yin and Yang reveals not only incessant change but it also reveals the way in which it changes. The light energy rises until it reaches its zenith and then it will revert to the dark energy and sink until it reaches its nadir. This basic binary harmonic is extended further into the Wuxing or Five Phases: And is extended further into the Bagua and 64 phases of the I Ching. So... Being one with Dao isn't just about embracing change inherent in all phenomena, it is also about being perfectly in tune with the way in which that change unfolds. Which in my mind brings Dao wonderfully back to the reality of the recurring here and now moment.

And when we explore it it is no longer wu wei, perhaps.

Possibly the most pertinent one that you missed is 養生 yǎngshēng -- nourishing life -- which is the original term for what has become modernised as "qigong".

Absolutely brilliant Simple_Jack ... great work !!! Huzzah !!!! Actually a grateful HUZZAH to every one, what a great discussion so far.

Now is a good moment to add that Ziran/TzuJan is a term also used for "spontaneous combustion"

Actually I agree very much with this. For this reason I have devoted several years correlating measurements of Phi with the traditional Yang family Taijichuan. The revelations have been quite astounding and have correspondingly improved both my form and my capacity to teach my students.

Cheers bud, thought you chaps would have had something along the same lines. Don't know about Dharmakaya(??), but I can groove with Spanda: Spanda Spanda is a Sanskrit term for the subtle creative pulse of the universe as it manifests into the dynamism of living form. Spanda can be translated to mean vibration, movement, or motion, referring to waves of activity issuing forth from an unseen Source of spontaneous expression. On a more personal level, spanda refers to consciousness as it orients through thought and intention to organize into authentic action. You may experience spanda as a desire to live according to your own innermost urging, act in line with your interest, follow your curiosity, and attend to your body's natural rhythms as they harmonize within the grander scale of natural life seasons and cycles. Living in a way that keeps us connected to our core beliefs and desires brings health, stamina, and joy. When we lose our creative "spark" or spanda, disconnecting from our own personal expression of vitality, we lose energy, focus, and a sense of well-being and may eventually fall ill. Connecting with what drives us, feeling that presence in our bodies, is also when we are most aligned with the natural spontaneity that defines life processes. Yoga practice encourages this conscious connection. Through yoga we learn to listen attentively to our own inner guidance as well as work creatively with the archetypal forms and timeless instructions passed down through the millennia. Spanda Yoga - The Yoga of Movement - What is Spanda?. Actually I would say that Spanda, used in this sense, is a close synonym to Dao-De (which is a traditional usage term) ... the unseen rhythm and the way we express it. See ... we are starting to learn each others language hehehehe Simple explanation: When you are really hot what do you look for? The cool of a shady tree right? And when you are really cold what do you look for? The warmth of a fire right? It means when things reach their zenith or nadir they naturally start seeking the opposite; or the extreme of a cycle creates or gives birth the opposite end of the polarity.

Purpose??? Nope, just life doing the do

Actually if you thought about it God, a reified divinity, would by rights be an aspect of Dao. But then again who cares right?

Oh my ... I think I just peed

Oh my ... more BS. Please, please, bring on the day where we subject these skills to proper scientific rigor AKA double blind examination. People will believe any lie, either because they are afraid it is true or because they really want it to be true. The only thing these Indonesians are more powerful at is the strength of their own delusions.

**Sigh** You think that your rendition of Laozi is the purest??? That's fine. You are entitled to think so. I will repeat my previous post to keep the dialogue moving in a constructive direction: Both in Ch1 and Ch14 my insignificant view is that Laozi is highlighting our desperate and ultimately futile need to hold and label something. We can't see the form of Dao so we try and describe it as invisible, we can't hear it so we try and describe it as inaudible, we can't grasp it so we try and describe it as intangible. But just as the descriptive "Dao" is not the eternal Dao or the subtle universal truth, neither are any of these other descriptives. And yet Laozi presents us with the possibility that the unseen, unheard, unreachable essence of Dao can be attained or experienced.

Aww crap here we go ChiDragon we ALL interpret Laozi according to our own world view ... it's unavoidable. I do it, James Legge did it, Suzuki did it and every fool who tries to render a Chinese character into English will do it. Of course you believe you are correct, thats fine and dandy. I grant you the right to question and challenge my translation and interpretation anyway you wish, and I most certainly reserve the right to question and challenge yours. So please take any criticisms as just the way things are when you post here at TaoBums.

Hiya ChiDragon, methinks you are trying to twist Laozi to support your own world view. This is actually more than OK, we all are perpetrators of this to at least a small extent; it's how we learn and evolve from Laozi's wisdom. Both in Ch1 and Ch14 my insignificant view is that Laozi is highlighting our desperate and ultimately futile need to hold and label something. We can't see the form of Dao so we try and describe it as invisible, we can't hear it so we try and describe it as inaudible, we can't grasp it so we try and describe it as intangible. But just as the descriptive "Dao" is not the eternal Dao or the subtle universal truth, neither are any of these other descriptives. And yet Laozi presents us with the possibility that the unseen, unheard, unreachable essence of Dao can be attained or experienced.