Stigweard

Yes!!!

Hiya Steve, An interesting poll, I wasn't able to answer because I haven't "switched" paths as such but have instead synthesized my study and practice of Daoism with Warrior Shamanism.

I just want to say that this post shows a wonderful transition in your considerations and thoughts. Thank you

Dang!!! Anyone coming to Australia soon ??

This also deserves careful attention. I will submit that "dancing with Wu Wei" is the "ultimate" point of navigation for the human being; to only ever do that which spontaneously arises from ones De. Laozi said that conceptual morality arose only when this "dance" had been disrupted. I will also agree with you that being able to be ever-present within this dance is possibly the most arduous task possible for the human being. And it is the most taxing instruction to give to a student who will be inevitably beset with a myriad questions as to exactly how this is achieved. I find myself also agreeing that this dance is about "catching up" with the moment ... due to our perceptual and conceptual filters the reality we finally render as "now" is only an echo, a remembrance, of the stream of life. Thus if we can "dampen the mind" as you say, or silence our internal conceptually based self-narration, then we can experience life as it truly is and respond in perfect synchrony to the direct passage or transmission of knowingness. However, and I believe this was recognized by Laozi, this is a hard pill for the regular folk to swallow and thus Laozi also contains guidance on virtue even though it was full well-known that this virtue wasn't the "High Virtue" of "dancing with Wu Wei". And so in Laozi we have the Sanbao of Compassion, Frugality, and Humility, and we have Chapter 51 whose specific guidance talks about De. I will confess that my opinions in the OP were directly inspired by this particular guidance from Laozi, that the "Way" (or point of navigation) within the "Great Way" is to "nourish life", or 養生 yǎngshēng. I am also blessedly happy to yield that the virtue of yǎngshēng is not the "high virtue" of the being who is "dancing with Wu Wei", and you have my sincere thanks Ya Mu that you have broadened the scope and clarity of this discussion to yield a more integral picture of how one should aspire to operate or be within Dao.

This deserves to be re-highlighted

Stigweard is the etymological root of "Stuart". Interesting that that Stig means a hall or pigsty and Weard means ward or gaurdian. Which means that I am a pig herder YAY!!

Which I believe quite nicely sheds light on the relationship of Dao and De.

Of course I agree with you I just bumped this up: The Significance of Taoist Virtue

Bumping this up seeing that the topic has arisen once again in other topics. Important to note that Dao is ever-present in ALL things, no exception. De is the reflection of Dao, the Dao-nature, within all things.

Haha !! Nice find !!! Master Ni is a great inspiration to me. Thanks.

The whole premise is founded upon neidan practitioners discovering that the universal forces that comprised the universal Dao (i.e. Yin/Yang, Tian ren di, the five elements, the bagua etc) we also present within each individual.

Thank you Friend for your reply (and thanks also to Rainbow Vein ) Let me share the process of how I teach for I believe it is essentially the same as what you are saying. When people first start learning Taiji they hold too much tension in their bodies and, correspondingly, they hold their "center" incorrectly (too high and too scattered). So my first task is to help them empty out this incorrect structuring, and so predominantly the first emphasis is Song, Song, Song. I believe this corresponds to your "One need 100% Shoong to start". As the body begins to loosen the lower body (legs, hips and core) begins to "fill up" in terms of both "intentful activity" and where the center of awareness resides. At this stage I also emphasize the principle of "floating the spine" so that correct posture is still maintained during this phase. But then, with time and practice, the intentfullness housed in the lower body will "rise" up through the body to develop what I refer to as Quanjin, or integral strength, which is where the whole body is working in unison under the direction of pure intent. You no long have to use the technique of "floating the spine" because the natural integrity of the body keeps everything as it should be without controlled effort. I believe this corresponds to your "Raising of the Structure." Have I read you correctly? Please correct me if I have not.

What is interesting is that Daoist neidan maintains the notion that each individual is in fact a holographic replica of the entirety of Dao. Thus Dao is to be truly to be found only within oneself.

Heheheh ... tricksie little hobbitses you are Chapter 51 道生之， 德畜之， 物形之， 勢成之。 是以萬物莫不尊道而貴德。 Tao gives life to all creatures; de [teh] nourishes them; materiality shapes them; energy completes them. Therefore among all things there is none that does not honor Dao and esteem de [teh].

Hiya Aaron, I most certainly respect your right to your own opinion, and I can understand why you have chosen to fixate on your definition of a "true sage". But don't you think it's a little bit limiting and overly exclusive to say "this is what a true sage does and does not do"? You are basically saying that your "true sage" is a wilderness survival expert, someone who can sustain themselves in the wild and if they can't then, in your books, they don't qualify as a true sage. Do you mind giving me some real life examples of people who do qualify as a "true sage"? And if this is your ideal, have you started your wilderness survival training? Is this just a abstract ideal for you, or have you taken practical steps to fulfill what you emulate? Perhaps I could recommend the texts by Tom Brown Jr. He was taught as a child in the ways of the native scout by an Lipan Apache elder named Stalking Wolf. These days he runs regular classes which you can find here: http://www.trackerschool.com/ If ever I come to the US this will be one of my engagements. I remember one of Tom's statements which advocates the maintaining of the "Wilderness Mind"; that by learning wilderness survival you develop natural-mindedness. Tom makes a clear point that you should take the Wilderness Mind with you wherever you go, whether that's in the wilderness or in the middle of the city. So yes Aaron I also see wilderness survival as a personal goal as well, and yes I enthusiastically say that this is an excellent path to attune oneself with Dao. But never ever would I advocate that this is the "only way" to achieve sagehood in the way that you are. I mentioned earlier that it is impractical advice to modern students to say that, if they want to discover Dao, they must learn wilderness survival. I have students who physically would not be capable for such an endeavor, does that mean that sagehood is out of their reach? Would you really look an elderly lady with bad hips in the eye and tell her that true spiritual attainment is beyond her reach because she can't survive in the wilderness? This is why I call your "true sage" an example of extreme and very impractical idealism. What I believe Laozi is saying when he uses the term Ziran is that we should develop the Wilderness Mind that Tom Brown Jr advocates and to maintain that wherever you are. Yes wilderness survival is a way to achieve Ziran, but in no way is it the "only way" because I can attest quite practically that activities like gardening and Taijiquan also develop natural mindedness. On another practical level, there is no way that the world's population could return to the hunter/gatherer existence that you seem to extoll, the natural world could simply not support it. And so we need to think creatively about finding the balance between rediscovering natural living and the practicality of the human population and the resources available. Personally I believe Dao is to be found in each and every ordinary moment of life. We must be practical and moderate in our approach to cultivation. For the modern student in today's world I truly think that growing your own vege garden is a superb way to get a bit more Dao into your life. But yes this is just my humble and not so intelligent opinion. PS Seeing that we are post scripting, my OP was precisely saying that my suggestion of "nourishing life" is a dao within the the Dao.