Stigweard

Now now Vaj ... question like that lead to the arguments we have had in the past ... you know the answer so let's not go there shall we.

Go outside right now, find a tree and ask that tree your question ... I am actually quite serious. Sit and observe

It's a good inquiry ... do we dissolve into Dao and lose our individuality? Well it's yes and no What we lose is the sense of a separate self, a self that "stands on its own". What we gain is an integral self that interdependently shares the same essence as every other universal manifestation. In Daoist parlance we have Dao 道 and De 德. Dao is the universal way of life, De is the Dao within us -- it is our true nature, our inner virtue. Our quest is to shed the sullied clothes of socialization and mental distortions and return to our pristine and innocent essential nature. Each person will express their De uniquely just like each star in the universe sheds it's light uniquely. And I guess that is what Dao is all about -- allowing yourself to shed your light exactly the way it is

Well I have a beach house right on the coast of Sunny Queensland ... lil place called Yeppoon. Y'all welcome to come stay and we can qigong up and down the beaches to our hearts content. Jump in a boat across to Keppell island ... some groovy private beaches there.

Yup

Done

My experience says that you are 100% correct

I appreciate your teacher's view, but here is another way of seeing it. The process of learning to "issue force" requires the student to align the body, coordinate movement, and focus one's intent in a very specific, efficient, and effective way which, coincidentally, also creates the optimum level of qi flow through and around the body. In effect, by learning the martial arts, the student is actually cultivating more qi then what most non-martial arts practitioners do. This is not to say that non-MA Taiji players can't or won't produce the same energy, with a good teacher and diligent practice they certainly can. It's just that the environment of martial application demands that the student makes the correct alignments, coordination, and intent required for optimum energy. Exceptional post Taiji218 I few points there that I will take on board and explore. Thank you. RE: I follow Richard Clear's suggestion to "imagine your back is rounded like the shell of a beetle." Here's a potentially better way of "getting" that concept. I teach the concept of wǔ gōng 五弓, or "five bows". These bows are: 2 legs, 2 arms, 1 spine. When standing in Zhan Zhuang, I encourage my students to identify with and connect these five bows and suggest that ZZ practice is about "loading" the bows with potential that can be expressed in our practice. So I have found that viewing my spine as a bow that is linked to the arm and leg bows very effectively forms the spine correctly.

Sorry champ you are taking liberties with this very culturally oriented tradition. Please don't use Taoism as a label to your idealism. Just because your "concept" of Taoism works for you that doesn't mean it is historically correct. If you walked down the street in China and said, "I follow Taoism", they would probably stare at you in bewilderment and say, "Which one?" Here's the facts: Taoism, or Daojiao 道教, arose as a synthesis of Chinese philosophy and indigenous Chinese mysticism during the Han dynasty. From that point it has been an evolving conglomerate of very organized religious sects with various off-shoots, as well as the mountain hermit tradition. The different sects place emphasis on different aspects of spiritual development. The more mystical (Quanzhen School 全眞 - Complete Reality), place their focus on spiritual evolution using meditation etc. to progress their quest of personal transcendence or integralness. Others (Zhengyi School 正一 - Orthodox Unity) are the more temple types with their main focus around rites and rituals which, conforming to the topic at hand, are very much about exorcising "evil spirits". So, regardless of your conceptualizations, a large portion of Taoism in the modern world is very much a religion. Take it or leave it. Please note that, with Marblehead staring across my shoulder, I am not saying, "Taoism is only a religion". That would be as ill-founded as your assertion of saying that it is not a religion. And this is one of the beauties of the tradition, because everyone can find a way of enjoying the treasures that Taoism has. If, like yourself, you want to just enjoy the rich philosophy ... AWESOME !! But if, like myself, I also want to enjoy the mystical practices ... AWESOME !! Just remember to be educated enough about the whole tradition Oh and if you want to play with the whole philosophy vs religion discussion then pop over to this old thread: The Relationship Between Religious and Philosophical Taoism - The Tao Bums

A comment to this first ... apologies in advance for the critical tone, but to say Taoism is not a religion is an uneducated view. Taoism is BOTH a religion AND a philosophy. Which came first? Which is more Taoist than the other? Fools questions really. Taoism arose out of the indigenous shamanic culture of China, thus, without being an organised religion per say, Taoist roots are religious in nature. And yet it is also philosophically based as well being founded on the works of Laozi, Zhangzi, Leizi etc. In the last millenia the formalization Taoism's religious branches is so well established that any mediocre student of Taoism should be conversant with it's basic principles even if they do not subscribe to the robes and rituals. And it is definitely within these religious branches that 'evil spirits' are held as a reality. Some would say that evil spirits and their handling is the stock and trade of religious Taoism. However, I am not a religious Taoist ... though on the comparative scale I am much more of a religious Taoist than Marblehead So from my mystical/philosophical Taoist point of view, I will agree with some of the comments made already. "Evil" is just a name given by people. Being just a name or a descriptive then it can only be temporary in nature. For example the evils of times gone past are the accepted norm of today ... mini-skirts for example Is it evil if I ended the life of a living being and ruthlessly chopped it's limbs from its living body? That might cause you to react by saying "YES!!" But what if I am just pulling up weeds from my garden, cutting them up and tossing them on my compost heap? So "evil" is just a concept of the mind relative to social standards and world view. From my view, there are merely things which nourish life and things which degrade life. For example, pure juice fruit is wonderfully healthy, whilst pre-canned rum and cola is not. Fresh garden veges are a boon, whilst greasy fast food is not. Is that which nourishes more important than that which degrades? Do I place emotional or psychological emphasis on one over the other? Personally, yes I do ... I prefer fresh foods, I prefer clean water, I prefer good music, I prefer healthy relationships, I prefer clean environments, I prefer harmonious relationships. So I don't class things as good or evil, I just follow my heart and are drawn to life nourishing sources in the same way that plants seek the sunlight.

Laozi Pilgrimage: Discover the Dao June 9-25, 2011 Join Daoist Studies professors Livia Kohn and Robin Wang on an exciting tour to the main sanctuaries of the Daoist religion, following in the footsteps of the ancient sage Laozi's legendary travels. Visit major temples, hike on famous mountains, practice qigong, soak in hot tubs, and enjoy relaxing massages. Day 1 (Thu). Transit. Depart the US. Book your flight to Beijing according to your own convenience. Make sure you have a valid Chinese visa in your passport. Day 2 (Fri). Arrival. Fly into Beijing and transfer to your hotel. Meet your fellow travelers and enjoy a welcome banquet. Day 3 (Sat). White Cloud Temple and Long Life Spa. After qigong in the morning and a sumptuous breakfast, visit the current headquarters of Daoism in the heart of the city and see Laozi in his full glory as member of the Three Pure Ones, the Daoist trinity. Learn about the history of the temple, the main features of the Complete Perfection school and its complex pantheon. Understand how Laozi functions as a major deity of the religion. After lunch, go to the Daoist Long Life Spa near the Altar of Heaven and let yourself be pampered with a relaxing foot massage, facial, or body soak. Enjoy a Daoist dinner in a near-by restaurant. Day 4 (Sun). Train to Zhengzhou. Travel for about five hours by train to Zhengzhou in Henan, the province at the heart of Chinese civilization. Arrive at the hotel and relax, catch up on sleep, do some reading, and maybe go for another massage. Dinner on your own. Day 5 (Mon). Birthplace. Visit Laozi's birthplace in Luyi, about 2 hours southeast of Zhengzhou. Learn about the history of the place, unravel the early legends surrounding the ancient sage, admire the steles and temple buildings in this holy site. After lunch, on the way back, stop at the birthplace of the Yellow Emperor in Xinbian, about 45 minutes south of Zhengzhou. Appreciate the development of this legendary figure and his increasing role in shaping Chinese identity today. Join us for dinner and relax. Day 6 (Tue). Luoyang. Travely by bus for two hours. After check-in, visit the fabulous Longmen caves and understand the Buddhist impact on the image and myths of Laozi. Relax in the afternoon, maybe with a swim in the hotel, then go out and explore the city's restaurants. Dinner on your own. Day 7 (Wed). Mount Hua. Take a fast train and in under two hours reach the sacred peak of the west and area where Laozi crossed from the central plains to the west on his way into emigration. Enjoy the Cloud Terrace Monastery(Yuntai guan) at the base of the mountain and hike around the lower range. Dinner on your own. Day 8 (Thu). Mount Hua. Spend the day exploring this spectacular mountain, by cable car and on foot. Enjoy the various temples, the fabulous scenery, and the incredible views. Learn about the various immortals and sages associated with this sacred Daoist place. Join us for a group dinner. Day 9 (Fri). Transit to Louguan. Going past Xi'an and further west, visit the place where Laozi transmitted the Daode jing to Yin Xi, the Guardian of the Pass. Check into your hotel, then visit the temple. Learn about the founding of Louguan in the fifth century and appreciate its importance as the first formal Daoist monastery. Marvel at the wonderful steles with the text of the Daode jing and relish the architecture and art work of the place. Have dinner with everyone at the hotel. Day 10 (Sat). Louguan. Take a day off to explore this beautiful area, visiting immortals' pavilions, hiking in the mountains, or just lazing around. Lunch and dinner on your own. Day 11 (Sun). Transit to Chengdu. Return to Xi'an by bus, then by air to Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan. After arrival and check-in, relax in the afternoon, then enjoy a spicy Sichuan dinner with everyone. Day 12 (Mon) Chengdu. Visit the Black Sheep Temple (Qingyang gong) where Laozi met Yin Xi after the latter underwent three years of intensive Daoist cultivation, reciting the Daode jing 1,000 times. Learn all about the legends of Laozi in Sichuan and their meaning both within Daoism and in comparative religion. Enjoy local parks and markets on your own. Day 13 (Tue). Mount Heming. Visit the place where Laozi, after emigrating and ascending to Heaven, returned to reveal the Dao to Zhang Daoling and appoint him as Celestial Master, thus founding the first organized Daoist school. Return to Chengdu at night for a relaxing spa experience, then maybe go out for a dinner adventure on your own. Day 14 (Wed). Lord Lao's Mountain. Visit one of the ancient districts of the Celestial Masters and a major sanctuary dedicated to Laozi as the main deity of the school. Learn about their organization and main practices, understand their history, and appreciate how this ancient place still serves as a center of Complete Perfection today. Return to the city by mid-afternoon and exlore it some more, before joining us for a local dinner. Day 15 (Thu). Mount Qingcheng. Travel to this most famous of Daoist mountains in the west of China. Check into a local hotel, then visit the Celestial Master's Grotto, yet another place where Laozi possibly revealed the Dao to Zhang Daoling. Take the lift up to the top and marvel at the beautiful old temples and gigantic Laozi statue there, then hike down at your leisure. Rest in the late afternoon or go for another massage, then have dinner on your own. Day 16 (Fri). Mount Qingcheng. Explore the deeper reaches of the mountain, visit the inner peaks and hike around the hidden parts. Join us for a farewell dinner at a local restaurant. Day 17 (Sat). Transfer back to Chengdu for a flight to Beijing or wherever your travels may take you. Return to the US, stay in Asia on your own, or move on to explore Tibet and the Himalayas for a few days. Cost: US$ 3600/person (double occupancy), includes 5-star hotels in Beijing, Zhengzhou, Luoyang, Xian, Chengdu; 4-star hotels at Huashan, Qingcheng shan, Luoguan; all transportation inside of China (train tickets, airfare, and coach service); all meals and spa treatments (massages) as specified; English Guide services and all tips; 2 textbooks for preparation (Daoism and Chinese Culture; God of the Dao). Additional: China visa, roundtrip air. Timeline: Deposit of $900 due at sign-up; remainder due Jan 31, 2011. Contact: Livia Kohn ([email protected]) 727-501-6915

It's all about packaging for the Western Market ... it's an interesting discussion. Tai Chi certainly does have some great benefits for the aging population, however, alot of the aging population would simply not be able to handle the traditional training. Even I have to admit that in my community class I have reduced the traditional 20min plus Zhan Zhuang (Standing Qigong) down to 10min and I have given much more emphasis on Fang Song Gung because that is what my students need ... loosening and coordination. In private of course I am much harder on my students. But we do have to adjust somewhat to suit the level of where people are -- the right ratio of adherence to the tradition whilst giving those that really want to train the opportunity to do so.

Master Moy, the founder of Taoist Tai Chi Society, was very upfront in saying he changed the Yang family form to suit his needs. He removed all the martial arts out of the practice and has diluted it quite a bit. Not that I am saying that you wont get benefits, you just have to keep in mind why you want to train. If you just want an introduction to Tai Chi then by all means go for it. But if you are interested in discovering the depths of Tai Chi then you have to keep in mind that you may have to eventually seek elsewhere. Of course the question then is, "Why don't you find the real deal to start with?"

LOVE IT!!!! Those training tools are great. And who would have thought Hacky Sack was a traditional Tai Chi practice I have bookmarked that one ... I reckon I will make those gym thingies too

Here's one of my "encounters" that I originally posted here Sleep Paralysis or Demonic Possession?: ----------------- I'm not sure what time it was when my intruder entered my room. I only remember awakening to sense it's inky presence oozing into my room. There was no shape as such, just a glutinous oppressiveness that poured its way into my room and descended on my prostrate body. It was the summer of 1996, I was staying in a seedy men's hostel just near the CBD of Rockhampton, Australia. This place used to be a pub (public bar) and the hallways still echoed of a hundred years of debauchery. My tiny room on the second floor, lacking any form of cooling to speak of, opened up onto a verandah from which I had a unique view across the road to perhaps the nastiest, foulest pub in town. This pub was frequented by the towns' urban aboriginals and many were the nights where I was serenaded by a chorus of vulgarity, violence and the midnight screaming of police sirens. Only a week before the events I am about to relate I had a box office seat to a mini-riot which left a stream of blood trickling into the gutters. On this particularly hot night, that left me gasping in my room like it was a furnace, I had decided to leave open the french doors that opened onto the verandah trying to catch the non-existent breeze. After endless minutes of sweltering listlessly I managed to plunge into the reprieve of sleep. My first waking instinct, when I was pinned fast to my bed, was of course to panic and scream, but before I could even gasp this incredible weight had extinguished my speech and severed my very ability to think. I say "weight" but it wasn't a physical weight as such, more like a density that tore its way through my mind and sunk it's tendrils deep within me to assault the sanctity of my soul. I can't say how long I lay there, helpless, I couldn't even think let alone contemplate the passing of time. I do know I struggled desperately but in vain because every avenue my mind fled down was slammed shut by my unyielding captor. But then some unknown part of me surged forth. My mind was flayed and stripped bare to reveal something deeper, something filled with an incredible raw potency. I was like the Earth itself with its crust sundered apart to release the primal magma of its core. In an instant my awareness flew to my lower Tan Tien and my lower abdomen erupted in a explosion of pure light. I felt my adversary convulse above me which gave me my chance for escape. I surged this pure light out to my hands and I blasted the full potency of my being into my foe. It flailed in protest, yet still I sent forth torrents of the unquenchable light. Finally my intruder routed, releasing its hold on my mind, fleeing back out of the door. Immediately I was up out of my bed streaming my light before me, nothing could resist my advance. I got to the door and sealed the portal with the light from my hands, creating a impenetrable web of light. With incredible relief coursing through me I turned around ... only to behold my own prostrate body, eyes closed, sweating on my bed, a full fifteen feet from where my awareness 'stood'. I jolted awake on my bed, bolting upright with a startled cry. Confused I looked around my room, back toward the door where I had only just been standing, but it was eerily normal. Then I noticed the sensations in my body. My hands burned furiously, waves of Qi pulsing out of them, my lower abdomen was vibrating tempestuously and I could still feel the 'little sun' that burned there. Out of instinct I got up and repeated my cleansing process. Sending streams of light from my hands through my room and out the door and then once again I sealed the entrance way. For hours I stayed awake, journalling as much as I could remember. And as the dawn broke that morning I gave sincere and hearty thanks to my teachers and to all the qigong and nei tan I had learned up to that point that had helped me win freedom from my midnight intruder. -----------------

Hehehehe ... well ... now that you mention it

I have responded to you via email rodgerj

I like that !!!

Just to add a little more to the discussion. I have found reference that the dancer with the trailers may be some link back to a ritual dance for rain. So the dancer could be referred to as a shaman of sorts.

Nice !!!

The answer is, "Yes". Buddhism describes "essence" as: In the Daodejing it quite explicitly states: According to Taoist ontology, following the spontaneous manifestation into Yin and Yang, the rest of universal creation came about through a process of change exactly in the same manner as the Buddhist dependent origination. However, if dependent origination is the ultimate reality or the fundamental causation of all things, then Dao would have to be originated by something else. Now here is a mystery for us. Later in Ch 25 it says: All good so far, we can see a quite logical flow of dependent origination. Humans have to follow the seasons of the Earth and it's biological reality. Earth follows the patterns of the cosmos and the cosmos follows the harmonious patterning of Tao. But then we have: So Tao is dependently originated from Tao. It is self-perpetuating like the Ouroboros snake swallowing it's own tail. How is this possible?