Stigweard

Aww Shucks !!

James Ray : 'Follow the Leader' A perfect example of what's being talked about here. 3 people dead and their loved ones were told they chose to die.

Sweet: Taoist Text in Catholic Church! - The Tao Bums I missed it originally

Let's not isolate the "new agers" as if we are saying, "Yeah look at the darstedly things they are doing!" Taoism also has the belief in self-determined reality in the form of what can be best called "The Law of Universal Energy Response" stating that, "Our life experience is a perfect match of our internal energy vibration." In other words, "As within so without". In my mind this is Taoisms' closest equivalent to the concept of Karma. It's not necessarily good and bad deeds, its more the recognition that all actions create universal reactions that follow the same spiraling pathways as Tao. Eventually the ripples will be felt by the stimulus of those ripples. Also, it is recognized that families, communities and nations also have their own unified energy "karma", so calamities on the individual level can also arise due to the individual being a integral part of a larger energy identity. However, the author has an extremely important point that, to throw this into the face of someone in crisis, you can cause more harm than good however well-intentioned you might be. Learning the virtues of prudence and being sensitive to what is appropriate is central to Taoist cultivation. I do not feel though that the author's use of the term "Bully" is in any way accurate. In all the examples above the "perpetrator" was either sincerely believing they were trying to help or, to use the authors own words, they were trying to be defensive and attempting to make themselves feel less vulnerable and more in control. A "bully" after all is a person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people. So I would say that inappropriately telling people in crisis that they are responsible for their afflictions is more an act of ignorance and insensitivity rather than the authors catch-phrase of being a "New Age Bully".

Very well said. Is Tao an Ontological Essence of Life? I initially said "Yes" to stimulate the discussion, and I thank all for getting stuck into it But what this discussion has yielded is the realization that, just as Laozi has written, it is impossible to provide a definitive "Yes" or "No" to this question. On one hand then "Yes" Tao is an ontological essence because Tao, being the way in which nature patterns and expresses itself, exists as a universal principle or law "before" Heaven and Earth arose. And also, as the subtle universal law, Tao does meet Laozi's terms: Ch 25 Before Heaven and Earth are born, there is something formless and complete in itself. Impalpable and everlasting, silent and undisturbed, standing alone and unchanging, it exercises itself gently, and generates itself inexhaustively in all dimensions. But, on the other hand, "No" Tao is not an ontological essence because the subtle universal law is not a "thing" that in any way shape or form can be regarded as a concrete entity. We have also seen that Tao is not necessarily a point of origin with creation flowing out from there in conventional linear terms because the subtle law is ever present with Heaven, Earth, and Humanity ever evolving according to the harmonic nature of Tao. Other important realizations made here is that the Shengren's path is one of being "free in Tao" in the sense of being "awake" to the "true" nature of Heaven, Earth, Humanity and Tao. Rather than causing needless suffering by living "out-of-phase" with Universal nature, the path of Tao is one of perpetual attunement to the natural emanations of life and, by doing so, live according to the essence of Universal reality.

Sure ... and it's a good progression along your line of thinking that, whilst Tao is not an ontological essence, we can perhaps say that Heaven is. "Heaven as a realm of pure yang energy" ... are we talking about a realm as in a plane of existence here? I mean we can be very mundane here and say that the "pure yang energy" is the cosmic light of the stars, planets, sun, moon, and other celestial bodies, and the Taoist tradition is rich with practices and ceremonies that "draw down" and attune to such energies. Or are we wanting to discuss "higher" or "more subtle" realms of manifestation that we could call Heavenly Realms??

I think we have to be very careful not to get too "esoteric" when defining the Taoist heaven. The character is tiān 天, and is quite literally the space 一 above men 大, or the sky. So the way of heaven, Tiandao, is the movements of the stars, planets, sun, moon, and other celestial bodies.

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I will use this to progress the discussion Is Tao an Ontological Essence of Life? I initially said "Yes" to stimulate the discussion, and I thank all for getting stuck into it But what this discussion has yielded is the realization that, just as Laozi has written, it is impossible to provide a definitive "Yes" or "No" to this question. On one hand then "Yes" Tao is an ontological essence because Tao, being the way in which nature patterns and expresses itself, exists as a universal principle or law "before" Heaven and Earth arose. And also, as the subtle universal law, Tao does meet Laozi's terms: But, on the other hand, "No" Tao is not an ontological essence because the subtle universal law is not a "thing" that in any way shape or form can be regarded as a concrete entity. We have also seen that Tao is not necessarily a point of origin with creation flowing out from there in conventional linear terms because the subtle law is ever present with Heaven, Earth, and Humanity ever evolving according to the harmonic nature of Tao. Other important realizations made here is that the Shengren's path is one of being "free in Tao" in the sense of being "awake" to the "true" nature of Heaven, Earth, Humanity and Tao. Rather than causing needless suffering by living "out-of-phase" with Universal nature, the path of Tao is one of perpetual attunement to the natural emanations of life and, by doing so, live according to the essence of Universal reality.

Yup ... I'm picking up what you are laying down there

Errm ... sorry, no common ground here We could start talking about folks being mugged and raped here, but let's not shall we ... we just found some common footing after all

I reserve the right to quote you back to yourself in the future Requesting that you do not reply by saying "Oh but Buddhism does it better" your sentiments above are precisely the quest of the Shengren / Taoist Saint.

The basic principle, to my uneducated knowledge, is, by keeping the breathing smooth and even, we keep our movements fluid. When we constrict or hold our breathing then our movements become likewise constricted. Some of the practice includes whats called "Square Breathing", which is basically breathing in for say a count of 5, hold for 5, breathe out for 5 and hold for 5 etc. Then extending the count. There is also the practice of learning to operate when the breathing is compromised i.e. getting winded, underwater, being choked etc. Here's one drill: Take a breath in and then do 3-5 full and slow squats holding the breath the whole time. Then reverse it by breathing out all the way and doing 3-5 full and slow squats holding the breath the whole time.

***************************** //--> In reference to Red Dragon's posts above: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/14507-gulf-oil-spill-continuous-outpour/page__st__280__p__199592entry199592 http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/14507-gulf-oil-spill-continuous-outpour/page__st__280__p__199597entry199597 http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/14507-gulf-oil-spill-continuous-outpour/page__st__280__p__199598entry199598 Totally unacceptable. Have imposed a 14-day posting suspension. <-- The Moderation Team -->

Heya ... yup still training. The breathing practice (which is excellent) is only one aspect of the art ... also you must have correct posture, fluidity and movement. Essentially the same as Taijiquan. To the above posts ... a good fighter must have all the ranges covered ... kicking, striking, grappling, and ground fighting. Otherwise you are going to get hammered. And I personally agree that a lot of IMA need a serious reality check on what they are doing. Comps like MMA and UFC have been a terrific boon for the martial arts world, a melting pot of "if it don't work you're kissing the canvas". But I am not a very good authority on the matter, I am definitely not a ring fighter and only train for the pleasure of physical interactivity. I would love to see a Systema lad trained up properly for the UFC though