Stigweard

spinning magic lines threads of mystic illusion cocoon of wonder

You will have to ask someone who is more of a Communal Daoist than I.

http://www.taowizard.com/wiki/index.php?title=Baxian Excellent image halfway down page.

There are possibly two different types of fajin being discussed here. One is the result of what my teacher calls "intrinsic strength" or my preferred term, "integral force". It is about a full integration of ones being and coordinating a full body movement in a focused direction adhering to the principle of "originating in the feet, controlled by the hips, expressed in the fingertips." Whilst taking many hours of practice to achieve proficiency, this basic level of "issuing force" is rationally based in pure bio-mechanics. The "other" type of fajin is what I believe some would call "empty force" and drifts into what could be called fa shen. This is where Taiji starts to look like "magic" (as can be seen in the above clips and I am sure our brother Adam Mizner could share some with us). The very real problem with this is that these sorts of demonstrations can, and have been, faked. This faking is not necessarily intentional either as it can be more of a subjective self-hypnosis in that the individual, so wanting to believe, creates the result themselves. People can come to delude themselves like this through a groupie hero-worshipping process as well. In wanting to place their teacher on a pedastal they imbue their guru with super-natural powers and act accordingly (i.e. they "play out" the phenomenon). Now I am not saying that "I don't believe in these abilities". I have enough experience in mystic phenomenon to easily allow for such achievements. I am also not saying, "They are all fake" as I am sure a few may well be the "real deal." The issue I have is when these masters publicly display and advertise these abilities without credible evidence to support their claims. By "credible evidence" I mean strict double-blind tests. Please don't give me the worn-out "come and feel it yourself" rhetoric. My subjective experience of a phenomena is just as questionable as anyone elses. The only credible evidence would be a conclusive success of such abilities within the environment of double-blind protocol. Because, if you can't produce these results on a completely random, unbiased subject, what is the practical worth of it? If all you can do is demonstrate it on your own inner circle of students then it smacks of the cloistered guru-worshipping that I mentioned above.

Listen and become That which is beyond all sound Beyond the first light

Here is my academic paper submitted for the The International Summit on Laozi and Daoist Culture, Beijing, China. http://www.taowizard.com/New%20Gateways%20...n%20Daoists.pdf If you would like to assist in the development of the ideas put forward in this paper, please feel free to discuss either here or on the TaoWizard forum: http://taowizard.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?...&p=126#p126

Following the excellent discussions in these topics: http://www.thetaobums.com/What-is-your-def...ism-t12539.html http://www.thetaobums.com/What-type-of-Dao...you-t12567.html It is vital, I believe, to articulate that the "outcome" of the curriculum suggested in the paper I have provided is not to become or claim the title of a "Daoist" per se. I believe we must honor and respect the Chinese roots of what that achievement truly implies. At best a "graduate" of this course would be, to borrow a term from Prof Livia Kohn, a "Daoist Sympathizer." In saying this, however, they would be someone who has gained deep insight into the breadth and scope of Daoist ontology with a clear, practical understanding of the Literati, Communal, and Self-Cultivation aspects of Daoism. It would be more than just a "Daoist Appreciation Course," in and of itself the course would be complete in that the participant would have a holistic "toolkit" of Daoist ontology that would yield tangible benefits to the individuals' lifestyle. It would, however, also serve as a "Preparatory Course" in that the graduate, if they wish, would have the capacity to progress into higher Daoist education via being provided, if and where appropriate, access to traditional schools/teachers or academic institutions. In a sense, the course would be a layperson's correspondence home study course of Daoism. As already indicated, no pretensions would be made that it is instructing the participant's how to be a Daoist, it would merely be a common persons' way of infusing into their lives some of the richness that can be found within Daoist ontology.

Cheers for your contribution Effilang. Excuse being a stickler for format but Haiku are 5 syllables, 7 syllables, 5 syllables. Good work though. emptiness of light how far between electrons? Is the Tao found there?

As a tangential exploration of my paper New Gateways For Modern Western Daoists, a friend of mine suggested that a definition of what Western Daoism is would be imperative. I have to agree, even though it's hard enough defining what Eastern Daoism is yet alone the collective result of how the different branches of Daoism have permeated into the west. So, if such a definition was possible, how would you define "Western Daoism"?

Hehehe ... Yup, we know you

This is true. Also be mindful of the 2 hours before going to sleep. Have a close look at this excellent representation of the Circadian Cycle: You can see that Melatonin production starts at around 9:00pm. If there is anything in one's environment at that time that interferes with the natural production of Melatonin then sleep problems can occur. The most common interferences are: - Light: As immortal_sister has correctly indicated, an absence of light when we are sleeping is conducive to healthy Melatonin production. However, we also have to be mindful of how much light we are being exposed to before going to sleep, and especially after approx 9:00pm. Limit artificial light sources such as TV's, computer screens, fluorescent lights etc. Also note that Melatonin production ceases around 7:30am. Because Melatonin production is linked with light exposure, then getting out into the early morning light can help establish healthy cycles of Melatonin production. - Digestion: A simplistic model is to consider Melatonin and digestive enzyme production to be "night and day" to each other. What this means is that if you are digesting food then your Melatonin production is inhibited. Thus the suggestion is to not eat anything within 2hrs of going to bed and particularly not after 9pm. Another tip is that, because the body lowers its temperature as it falls asleep, you can help this process by having a warm bath just before sleeping (the process of evaporation and the body's thermoregulation will result in the lowering of the body's core temperature). These are just a few issues in the very large spectrum of sleeping issues. A great book to read is, "The Promise of Sleep", Dr. William C. Dement.

Well said my friend I agree that such a compromise needs to take place as well. The question of course begs: "What will traditional Daoism be willing to "give up" in order for it to meet the West half-way whilst retaining its essence?" And of course similarly: "What will the Western student be willing to "give up" in order to live according to the essential elements of Daoism?" I believe that the clear articulation of this "mutual compromise" will only be wrought through the sincere engagement of dialogue, like we are doing here, between all parties involved.

Pandit Tree / Mickey Laoshu / LongHu Shan, You obviously come from the school of: "Whoever throws the most insults wins the debate." In this you are indisputably my superior and so I concede defeat and bow out.

Pandit Tree / Mickey Laoshu / LongHu Shan, Exactly who are you representing with your words? In the opening post you said: "Some Chinese (and they do add up to plenty when we do a percentage-wise count)." Exactly who are these Chinese? Are they the Chinese Daoist priests and Masters themselves? Or are they part of the peripheral group of Chinese who attended? To add some perspective, have a look at how you are portraying this "group" with your representation here. In your attempts to present this group, of which you obviously claim membership, as somehow superior to the Western delegates, you have merely portrayed them as a bunch of half-brained giggling school-boys puffing themselves up with a false sense of superiority. If your reporting is correct, and we only have your word to go on, then their comments equate to no more than the school-yard antics of the "in-crowd" who think they have the right to condemn and criticize those that they declare are "lesser". So exactly whom are you being the voice for here? Let's hear some names. Which Masters directly expressed or agree with your comments? Without this list then all we can assume is that these views and comments are yours and perhaps a few of your drinking buddies. And if it is the Daoist priests and Masters who expressed these views then I consider them as frauds and an embarrassment to the good tradition of which they are meant to be prime exemplars. But if, as I suspect, these views are merely those of small group of the Chinese periphery, then the relevance and weight of these comments are, quite simply, inconsequential.

Pandit Tree (though I know I can equally call you Mickey Laoshu or LongHu Shan), I have apologized for and recanted on my comments that were inappropriate. However, I maintain, very much, my view that your derisive comments in regards to the Western delegates at the Beijing summit are representative of the biggest impediment to the wholesome growth of Daoist culture. So long as the Chinese and Western fraternities both maintain their immature positions of superiority over one another the longer it will take to share with the world whatever benefits Daoism has to offer.

Pandit Tree, You are right on a couple of points. I should have asked at the time to push with you, and I should definately not have made the comments above in retrospect. I was wrong and I humbly and sincerely apologize and ask for your forgiveness in this regard. The comments in the opening post were yours then yes?

Heya Yoda, I have always had the greatest respect for you personally, but seeing that we are doing a kind of review here of Mak Tin Si, how do you reconcile your teacher's comments here: http://www.thetaobums.com/TO-ALL-attention...uss-t9186.html#

I am not aware of such "mixing." I would really want to see proof of such before making any opinions based on hearsay. I do know that Master Ni has delivered his traditional lineage in a way that is more easily assimilated by Western minds and lifestyles. There are some that say this is a dilution, and others say this is simply a Taoist approach of adjusting to one's environment. I stand with the later, it is up to you to choose for yourself.

I am not well versed on the differences. But to my limited understanding the Zhengyi School 正一 (Orthodox Unity) tends to be a little more "religious" than the Quanzhen School 全眞 (Complete Reality). Whilst the Zhengyi has more focus on talismans, rituals, ceremonies etc, the Quanzhen focuses more on inner alchemy and personal sublimation. Yes, the College of Tao material does teach rituals that can be done by laypeople.

Upon request, "Yes" Quanzhen or Complete Reality School "Yes" "Yes" "Yes" As well as: ~ Nei Tan, Internal Medicine, which can support a person's spiritual future through refinement of the physical, mental and spiritual essence, ~ Tai Shi, Internal Breathing, which is higher than external breathing, although both are usually practiced together, ~ Tao Yin, Energy Channelling, for purposes of health and spiritual benefit, ~ Chun Shih, Visualization or concentration, ~ Fu Erh, External Nutrition, using natural herbs and other things, ~ Shing Jeau, Walking, for gathering and refining energy, ~ Fu Chi, Intaking Natural Energy through breathing and swallowing, ~ Fang Jung, Sexual Cultivation, ~ Fu Jyeo, Secret Talismanic Characters, Words and also Invocations, ~ Jing Tan, Golden Elixir, ~ Shr Jeah, Method of Exuviation into a New Life.

Go to google and enter this in your search field: site:www.thetaobums.com "mak tin si" Have fun