Stigweard

Interesting:) thanks for sharing this. Your Type is ENFP Extraverted Intuitive Feeling Perceiving Strength of the preferences % 1 62 12 44 slightly expressed extravert distinctively expressed intuitive personality slightly expressed feeling personality moderately expressed perceiving personality

I have always found Hua Ching Ni's "Book of Changes and the Unchanging Truth" to be most useful. It is good for both the beginner and the advanced student in that it outlines the basics of how the bagua was formed and then goes into extended detail. Master Ni prefers the seed method and I have found it also to be both simple to use and very revealing and accurate.

This topic deserves its own thread: --------------------------------------------------------- I think one of the greatest achievements in the West is the scientific theory and academic community. Not everyone agrees but research is explained, refuted, and exchanged openly. Could such a community exist between cultivators too? Of different traditions and religions for the good of all humanity? That's not rhetorical, I'm asking, do you think it could be done? Song Yongdao --------------------------------------------------------- It can be done! But it will take people who are there to mold the forum, cut out the arrogant participators, and go forward with the principles of Cultivation only. To sit down, and discuss the functions of the methods of each other's tradition, respect each other for their attainment of wisdom through their methods, and work together to expound those teachings. A school perhaps, of a whole mix of cultivators, respecting each other, and teaching that as a foundation for cultivation. A place where the method is investigated, and then cultivated, and finally taught to eager students who are not chosen because of how much money they have, but because of their humility, honesty, and good roots. No favoritism what so ever. Basically, It would be an awesome time to gather well cultivated ones in one room, discuss and record the whole entire explanations of their methods. What a grand thing. Lin Ai Wei --------------------------------------------------------- Imagine, the opportunity for masters to study each other's systems, discuss methods, and collaborate. I know many masters have the ability to simply watch a practice and immediately understand its purpose. Put these men and women together to study how their methods are alike and differ and I imagine you could develop a very refined system of cultivation. You bring up a very good point that many different methods exist because many different minds exist. Certainly there is no one way best for everyone. This is where you could also introduce the traditional medical and psychological systems to help guide who should be practicing which methods when. Different bodies and minds have different needs, these differences too could be investigated and cataloged. I know Ayurvedic and TCM are both used to diagnose constitutional conditions and temporary disease patterns. Using these diagnostic techniques cultivation could be further tailored to suit each individual. Use western material diagnostics to study the course of cultivation and within a generation we could have the start of a new tradition of human spiritual technology. When would you like to start? Song Yongdao --------------------------------------------------------- Online Forum? or meeting in person forum? HAHA I would love to work on something to this massive degree. A room filled with cultivators who are not holding their chins higher than their nose...hahaha Who don't have more heads than Medusa... hahaha Seriously though, there will need to be guidelines to assure no one starts reciting mantras to kill each other just to show how great they are. Let's develop it, slow, to gather those who can be a board of such, just to make sure no one chops off heads during discussions. No hierarchy over all, just a recognition of conduct, morality and virtue throughout the forum. Maybe just an online forum first, and then in the future, a great big banquet! hahaha What do you think... What do you all Think? We should gather a poll, work some guidelines for conduct, and morality. Patience needed for total explanation in detail the workings of each of the methods presented. Ideas.... Peace, Lin P.S.- I don't get excited really, but I am very excited about this project --------------------------------------------------------- My suggestion is that we can aim initially for a one-off convention/forum, gathering together those masters who are recognised as being both achieved and reputable in their field. LOL ... the first inaugral TaoBums Convention. Count me in ... I have plenty I would love to give to this project. Get your ideas flowing folks.

Interesting that this thread should resurface now

Nope I got nothin'

where go we from here? Why back to the beginning, Flowing back to self

Good for you sir ... BRAVO! It takes a special sort of person to admit publicly you were wrong about something. Your virtue tally has just increased By the way I must thank you for inspiring me to give more focus to my standing practice ... it had lapsed some while I was giving attention to other areas of my practice _/\_

Thanks for all the feedback ... I truly appreciate having my knowledge of Taoism broadened some. After reading your comments I responded to my friend:

The 'point of nothing', if such a thing is possible, is to emulate Tao. Through universal spontaneity the distinction of life emerges from the primordial nothingness and becomes beingness. Then, through the natural process of universal nature, beingness reverts once again to nothingness. Thus Tao, through spontaneous expression, is ever-growing and, through the process of return, is ever-renewing. Thus, to enjoy the basic virtues of health and longevity, we must discover the secrets of reverting to nothingness so that we to may become ever-renewing. Without being able to return to nothingness we incessantly expend our vitality and suffer the tragedy of premature illness and death.

I appreciate your comments Mouse. My line of inquiry is to ask other folks their learned perspective of whether they have encountered the teachings of Diyu hell realms as per the Wiki article in their Taoist studies because, quite simply I have not. It matters to me because I like to give people accurate information and previously if someone was to ask me, "Do Taoists believe in hell?" I would have answered, "No". So, being presented with information that I previously did not have, I would like to understand if, where, and how it 'fits' within Taoist ontology. For the moment I am quite content to allow such a notion to fall within the framework of Chinese folk religion because it seems so 'foreign' to the core works of Laozi, Chuangzi etc. But if someone was to provide some conclusive, and constructive evidence to prove that the hell realms are a central tenet of the Taoist tradition then I am quite happy to review my beliefs.

I wasn't asking necessarily for opinions of whether there is or is not an 'underworld', more to the point whether the 'hell realms' described in the Wiki entry were a part of Taoism or just Chinese folk religion. Cheers for you comment though.

Another take on "undiscriminating virtue"... "Discriminate" comes from the Latin cernere which means to separate, which interestingly is the same root for crisis. If we adhere to the Taoist meaning of virtue, De / Te 德, as being one's true nature then "undiscriminating virtue" can be read to mean "Integral Nature". So instead of regarding "undiscriminating virtue" as a verb in terms of treating other people without discrimination and can be taken more as a adjective, a descriptive of self when all the disparate elements of self are integrated into a harmonious whole. Then our virtue will be truly wu wei because it will be merely the spontaneous expression of one's personality when one is living true to one's nature. Taking this one step further, one could consider oneself truly an Integral being when one embraces all beings as indivisible parts of one's essential nature. Thus regarding oneself as whole one regards all life in its wholeness.

This is perhaps a random interjection but it seemed somehow relevant to the current 'vibe'. I was literally having an exchange with a friend of mine on Facebook: "Actually it is funny the whole answer/question thing because, as you say, if you can articulate an answer it is not the Tao. A good friend of mine says, "Answers are dead, the loop is closed ... only questions are alive." So in a way Tao is like a perpetual question, an infinite mystery that we keep exploring even though we know we never be able to unravel its subtlety ... and yet still we journey on. "

"The teaching of Tao originated in prehistoric times. For many generations people searched out methods by which to develop themselves. These methods are numerous and some have even been formalized as different schools which emphasize one or two things and make other aspects secondary to one's personal cultivation. Here I would like to give you some idea of the many effective methods which are practiced among achieved ones. ~ Nei Tan, Internal Medicine, which can support a person's spiritual future through refinement of the physical, mental and spiritual essence, ~ Tai Shi, Internal Breathing, which is higher than external breathing, although both are usually practiced together, ~ Tao Yin, Energy Channelling, for purposes of health and spiritual benefit, ~ Chun Shih, Visualization or concentration, ~ Fu Erh, External Nutrition, using natural herbs and other things, ~ Shing Jeau, Walking, for gathering and refining energy, ~ Fuh Chi, Internal Energy Maintenance, ~ Bei Gu, to stop eating food completely (especially helpful to those who are cultivating spiritually so that they can stop looking for and preparing food for themselves - eventually they combine their life with the environment), ~ Fu Chi, Intaking Natural Energy through breathing and swallowing, which should be practiced with Bei Gu, ~ Fang Jung, Sexual Cultivation, ~ Fu Jyeo, Secret Talismanic Characters, Words and also Invocations, ~ Jing Tan, Golden Elixir, ~ Shr Jeah, Method of Exuviation into a New Life." p3, Ni Hua Ching, "Workbook for Spiritual Development of All People", Seven Star Communication, CA, 2005

I certainly agree with most of what you said ... I bought a copy of Thick Face Black Heart, found it lacking in virtue and traded it in at second hand book shop. However you still haven't given your justifications for claiming it has something to do with magic or sorcery which it clearly hasn't.

A small bump for virtue...