Tibetan_Ice

Well,, thanks for the straight answers (finally). You might enjoy this movie. I know I did..

Simple things amuse simple minds. If you are not amused then you have some work to be done.

Let me refresh your memory. You were reading Jackson's book and had nothing but praise for it. You were not finished reading the whole book and had mentioned that once you had finished it you would report back with your assessment. Instead, you deleted your thread. It appears from your latest responses that you deleted the thread simply because you could. Or perhaps you decided that you had violated your own moderation policy? I had hoped that you could have overcome your passive aggressive attitude towards Buddhism, finished off the book and then explained to us the difference between Jaxchen and Dzogchen but instead we are left standing in a cloud of evasiveness. What is Jaxchen you ask? From http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=23396

What flaws were presented to you about this book?

I didn't really expect a straight answer from you so nothing was lost.

Sure, I'll bite.. Do tell...

I like the statement that Alan Wallace said in one of his Dzogchen talks. He said, "if you think you are enlightened, put your hand in fire and keep it there. Let us know how it goes..."

Spotless, Stop Cheating Yourself: Answering "Yes" to All These 10 Questions Can Determine If You're Spiritually Enlightened or Not http://www.meditationexpert.com/life-wisdom/l_are_you_enlightened.htm

The "vital breath" is perhaps the closest that Nisargadatta came to the concept of "shakti". Actually, this quite surprised me when I read this book 5 years ago... From "The Ultimate Medicine as prescribed by Nisargadatta Maharaj https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Medicine-Dialogues-Realized-Master-ebook/dp/B004ZZKSD0/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=#nav-subnav

Blue entoptic field phenomenon, sacral cranial pulses of colors, seeing colorful stars when pressing on the eyes etc.. are not true thogal visions. They are physical phenomenon related to the body and the visual mechanics. They are preliminary practice phenomenon. They are useful because they help the practitioner train the awareness to focus and stay focused in the eye consciousness while relaxed but to enter in the domain of true thogal visions one must first be in the natural state. These preliminary visual phenomenon do not require being in the natural state. If you now have a book which ignores that fact, which calls seeing the darting whitish balls flit around, the eye floaters, the sacral cranial pulses of light, etc "thogal visions" then that is not correct. If there is some mention of "preliminary" and distinguishes between the physical phenomenon and the spontaneously arisen manifestations of the clear light, then that would be correct. Some examples of advanced thogal visions are "spheres of rainbow light with people inside" and "whole scenes of landscapes in great detail" . I tried to point this out to you but it appears that your ego could not handle it. You still seem to be holding a grudge and are trying to get even from my elaboration and corrections when in fact, I was pointing out your misunderstandings to the best of my knowledge, experience and understanding. There is a component of thogal visions that requires the natural state, which is similar or the same as third eye sight. If you have not developed your third eye, you will remain in the physical phenomenon side of the practice. Re: the four or six lamps... By your statements about chakras in this very thread you have revealed that you still don't have third eye sight. For, if you did you could see your own chakras and you wouldn't be mocking the Hindu rendition of chakras and their labels based on their functions. The point between the eyebrows is used in thogal to separate out the clear light. If you don't develop that point, good luck with seeing any spontaneous manifestations of clear light. You're right. I gave up women and sex on the physical plane over seven years ago. I live alone and I like it that way. Who said I am not interested in my own? Putting words in my mouth? What you seem to do is learn about something, misunderstand it and then leap to outrageous conclusions, attacking that which you did not understand nor have any practical experience with. You dismissed Tenzin Wangyal like that. You didn't get it that there is still awareness in deep sleep in this same thread. You wrote "In other words: When you really succeed in leading your awareness into emptiness, awareness will simply cease to exist...and simple non-existence of awareness remains. Which has no more benefit than and in fact is similar to deep sleep." Perhaps you could explain the "no more benefit" part? You deleted all your threads in this forum based on this book? And now you have fantastic claims that this diamond book is the "truth" and all the other hundreds of Dzogchen books are wrong or hiding something. The proof is in the practice, the ripeness of the practitioner and the fruits of those practices. For the ripest practitioner, Garab Dorje's three statements would be enough. But ripe practitioners are extremely rare. For some of us, a book is an introduction and sometimes that introduction is followed by visitations in the astral planes. For others, a book only augments confusion and exacerbates conceptuality.

Isn't relative bodhicitta the aspiration that everyone become enlightened? How does the unwillingness to share the title and author of this wonderful practice manual benefit anyone? Is your secrecy based out of fear? Fear that the light of openness might reveal some flaw in your diamond? There are some sincere practitioners whom frequent this site whom might benefit from such a diamond, not to mention that if you yourself don't achieve rainbow body in this life you may not find that diamond in your next life unless you share. Is it all about you or us?

Name one good dzogchen practice book, please..

The book you quoted from, Bonpo Dzogchen Teachings - Namdak was Transcribed and edited, together with Introduction and Notes, by John Myrdhin Reynolds You have the audacity to claim that he is "misrepresenting highly theoretical dzogchen principles"? Even Namdak acknowledges son clear light and mother clear light. There is mention of the clear light here, Bonpo Dzogchen Teachings: What do you suppose Namdak means here ? From THE FEATURE OF THE EXPERT, GLORIOUS KING: “THREE LINES THAT HIT THE KEY POINTS” ROOT TEXT AND COMMENTARY BY PATRUL RINPOCHE And again from Dudjom Lingpa's Heart of the Great Perfection: https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Great-Perfection-Lingpas-Visions/dp/1614293481/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1470063650&sr=8-1&keywords=Heart+of+the+great+perfection Hint, any time you see a reference to son and mother, or child and mother, most books on Dzogchen and the Great Perfection are referring to the clear lights and the joining of the two. In reality there is only one clear light but they speak about it like there are two for the sake of clarity because there is the relative truth and the absolute truth.

Tenzin Namdak is talking about the Mother Clear Light in that quote while based on the context of your statements from your post, you are talking about Son Clear Light. From "The Golden Letters" You said "In other words: When you really succeed in leading your awareness into emptiness, awareness will simply cease to exist...and simple non-existence of awareness remains.Which has no more benefit than and in fact is similar to deep sleep." First off, you do not lead your awareness into emptiness. The two are inseparable from the start within the context of the natural state. In Dzogchen, you are introduced to rigpa, son clear light and that is what you work with. If you are really ripe, you might realize mother clear light but that would be extremely rare. Secondly, saying that there is "no more benefit than and is similar to deep sleep" indicates that you are still in the domain of the "son clear light", the natural state. Therefore, I would have to disagree. There is great benefit in remaining in the natural state, as that is the whole goal of the practice of Dzogchen. And, if you remain in the natural state all the way through a sleep cycle, you would realize that you can be in dreamless deep sleep and still be aware. You can be unconscious and still be aware. So your idea that there is no awareness in deep sleep and it is a nonproductive state is true for a normal person, but for a developed practitioner, they would laugh at you. Further, there are many usages of the term "rigpa". In the Namdak quote you quoted: he specifically used the term "rig-cha". Rig-cha means http://english-tibetan-dictionary.tumblr.com/post/59659576192/gdang Rig-cha is not rigpa within the context that I used the term. You said "...and simple non-existence of awareness remains. ...." This part of your statement has also strayed into an extreme. Emptiness does not mean "non-existence". You have interpreted Namdak's statement that rig-cha is not permanent to mean that it is "non-existent". From http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Emptiness. I mean, Namdak does say himself that "Within it, emptiness and clarity are inseparable and never otherwise. This inseparability, or Yermed (dbyer-med), is the essence of Dzogchen. To fall either on the side of emptiness or on the side of manifestation is to deviate from the Dzogchen view and to fall into partiality and extreme views" So, perhaps that explains my position a little better...

This is really hard to understand. Perhaps English is not your first language? Your usage of the term "awareness" is problematic. I would change your usage of the term "awareness" into "conscious awareness" and use the term "rigpa" to indicate that which never arises, does not require an object to exist, is beyond time and space and is self aware. You can lead conscious awareness into nothingness, but you can't lead rigpa into nothingness or nonexistence as you seem to have written. Also, your definition of "emptiness" as nothingness is not Buddhist, for emptiness in Buddhism is about the non-inherency of existence. Emptiness is form, form is emptiness. The usage of the term "emptiness" to represent a wide open space with nothing in it is possible as a metaphor in the English language, but extra care has to be taken when claiming that one can lead "conscious awareness" into emptiness.

You know, it is fine to point out the evils of organized religion and bash institutions because their history is tainted. All trees do not grow up straight. Jesus is by far the most powerful loving being I have ever met and have had a personal relationship with ever since. I met HIM in a previous life. HE healed my club feet. I met HIM again 18 years ago in this life. HE is always there, has been and will always be. Although I try very hard, I still get upset with people whom have not met HIM and point to crooked branches.

Didn't Ramana say to seek the source of the "I ", not rest in it?

On a relative level, yes that is true. It is a "fake it until you make it" type of thing. At the absolute level, it is a different story. One does not become compassionate. One does not remove the mental, emotional and egoic restrictions. One activates the love that is hidden in the heart and it removes the mental, emotional and egoic restrictions for you! In other terms, absolute Bodhicitta is already compassionate, loving, blissful, nonegoic, nondual, nonconceptual, vast, luminous, makes you feel like you are everything, like being bathed in a pure ocean of love. What do you truly love, Bindi? When you feel from your heart, what do you love? Do you love yourself? Do you love your heart? Are you thankful that your heart selflessly keeps pumping for the benefit of all the other organs and parts of the body? If you send your heart some love, thankfulness and appreciation, does it activate tingles? Can you remain in the "loving your heart" long enough to precipitate great vibrations of tingles? They start in the chest and fan out. Does the love become so intense and pleasurable that it overtakes your mind, you can't think anymore? Doesn't it wipe out your ego? Isn't it much purer than just emotions? You are activating the pool of rigpa which surrounds your heart. The absolute Bodhicitta. If you cultivate that, by truly loving, it will come out to visit you. It resembles clear water. If you hold a vision of something or someone you truly love in your mind's eye, just between the brows, you can cause the clear water to spring up from the heart and you will see it. Find the true love inside your being then work with it. Bodhicitta is the key.

Bodhicitta can demolish the mind so quickly the mind and ego will rebel because they see it as death. Bodhicitta is so powerful that it sees everywhere into all the planes. Bodhicitta is the key to all authentic paths.

The more I think about it I would say from the top down they look very similar. Both sides would deny it and grasp their own labels and concepts, but Self looks a lot like rigpa to me.

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Bodhichitta

Unskillful rendition, Already. From "Bonpo Dzogchen Teachings - Tenzin Namdak":

Perhaps you could summarize the differences between the relative bodhicittas of the lower schools and the Bon Dzogchen bodhicitta?

That happened to me. I had changed my regular routine to a meditation of just feeling my presence as a field in and around my body. I spent about two hours a day performing that style of meditation. After three days of performing that style of meditation, while I was sleeping in bed at night, I could hear someone snoring. It was me! When I looked down I could see my mind dreaming, I could see the dream scenes and they were small and far away. The vantage point I was in seemed to be a wide open empty space and I felt like I was a little stationary point of view. I did not loose awareness and just remained, listening to my body snoring, watching the ltttle dreams come and go in cycles. In the morning, when the body woke up, it was like a big explosion in slow motion as waking consciousness arrived and the world of forms appeared once more. At first I thought I would be very tired since I had been aware without any "sleep" but I was fine. I guess my body and mind were getting the rest that they needed. In all, I experienced 24 hour awareness for 1 1/2 weeks, without any detrimental effects. After a while I decided that I liked being not aware during sleep more than experiencing this vast empty space and quit the "presence" meditation as a regular routine. I didn't think I was getting anywhere or progressing.