Tibetan_Ice

Dear Mods... See what happens when you let Stefos derail the topic by pushing the unpalatable Krishnamurti down the throats of fellow posters? The topic is about raising kundalini through kriya yoga, not how Stefos can't think for himself and must rely on an intellectual anti-guru, anti yoga, hypocritical quasi philosopher with no powers or realizations... A sneering comedian and entertainer at best, that's what J. K. Is. There are plenty of realized true masters out there, like Buddha, Jesus, Padmasambhava, Dhyanyogi, Gurudeva, Sri Anadi Ma, Tenzin Namdak, Tenzin Wangyal, Yogananda, Mark Griffin, Yogi Bajhan, etc etc, and they have their practices and teachings too. And most if not all of them have/had mystical powers and abilities with written testimony by witnesses... But That Is Not The Topic Of This Thread.

Mods, Stefos' posts are off topic. The topic in this thread is "experiences in kriya yoga". The topic is not "How J Krinshnamurti cast aspersions on everyone else's kundalini experiences by claiming them to be false", nor is it a discussion about whether or not kundalini only rises when there is no self (which is obviously false), nor is it "Why do you want to activate kundalini?". Nor is it an oportunity to degrade authentic gurus, like J K has done many times in the past. I consider posting J K here an afront to the traditional authentic gurus like Yogananda, Gurudeva, Saraswati, Dhyanyogi, and more Could you please split them out into another thread or pit them? Thanks.

Hi NF, Sorry, it's taken me a few days to get this in order.. Kriya Yoga is sort of one flavour of Kundalini yoga and there are many flavours. Raja Yoga, Kundalini Yoga, Hatha Yoga, etc. In one way or another, their main purpose is to cleanse and open the central channel (sushumna) and accompanying nadis. To answer your question specifically, about the effects of working with the various chakras and what to expect, there certainly is allot of information all over the web about it. While I did practice SRF for 3 years (including the Energization Exercises), I did not log those experiences. I did, however, log a major part of my experiences with 'kundalini yoga' and AYP's customized/bastardized practices here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3691&whichpage=1 While I don't recommend following AYP's practices and advice because there is much misinformation there and a poor understanding of Patanjali's 9 limbs of yoga and the fact that you shouldn't mix TM with kundalini practices, I did document some of my experiences there. I also documented my eventual understanding that TM is not Patanjali's method of dhyana, dharana, samadhi. So, if you decide to examine AYP, examine the many posts about overload and the fact that AYP (Yogani) does not ever bring the practitioner beyond a most rudimentary understanding. However, you wanted to know about what to expect in your Kriya Yoga practices. The first source that comes to mind is Ennio Nemis. He has written about his practices and experiences. http://www.kriyayogainfo.net/Eng_Home.html On that site you will find a link to his book(s) Part 1, 2 and 3. The book is an interesting read and will help to give an understanding from one point of view. http://www.kriyayogainfo.net/Eng_Downloads1.html As well, since Yogananda's patent ran out on the main Kriya Yoga practices, it is now for sale on Amazon.. http://www.amazon.com/Kriya-Yoga-Swami-Yogananda-ebook/dp/B00BWF3XHY/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1421264007&sr=1-2&keywords=yogananda+paramahansa+books Other sources, which I have found to be so wonderful are these: Gurudeva, my favorite Guru!!! His book called "Merging With Shiva" is the best. (While this is not kriya yoga but raja yoga, it is still very relevant and is a treasure chest of information about the chakras, kundalini, meditation, etc). https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/merging-with-siva This is Gurudeva. What a wonderful aura.. !! Also, Sri Anandi Ma is my kundalini guru, from whom I received shaktipat in absentia. I wrote about the ten day initiation's experiences in the first link's thread that I posted from AYP. http://dyc.org/kundalini-maha-yoga/anandi-ma/ I assume that you've read "Autobiography of a Yogi - Yogananda", and "Kundalini - Gopi Krishna".. You might also want to get a copy of the Bhagavadgita, if so inclined. Not sure if this helps, but hopefully it will give you a better idea of some things to explore. I will also add this. Ajna, the point between the eyebrows is the gateway into subconscious. When ida and pingala are balanced (the air flows evenly in both left and right nostrils), it is easy to activate this gate. From here, you can go deep into the subconscious, or outwards into other planes. Most of the practices involving Anja (third eye) involve maintaining consciousness in order to train the consciousness to remain active while exploring/entering the deeper realms. The practices help establish and maintain a link so that the deeper realms (subconscious) can be seen and brought to the light of consciousness. When you start to succeed at maintaining a connection while 'deep diving', you will start to see images, hear sounds and lights and have any of a number of experiences (clairvoyance, clairaudience, intuition augmentation..etc) It is important to realize that the experiences are a by product of deep-diving and serve as sign posts along the way. Don't fixate on them nor seek them. They will arise naturally if you follow the practices. TI

Hi NF, Is this the book you are following? http://www.kundaliniawakeningsystems1.com/downloads/kundalini-tantra_swami_sathyananda_saraswathi_%28176pg%29.pdf Have you done the monthly sections of practices in order? These are very powerful practices and it would be good to have a guru or someone to consult about the effects. Just the first month's practices are worthy of mastery. Not feeling the prana moving can be a good thing because it is said that when you feel it, it is because of obstructions or blockages. Kind of like having dirty pipes. When the pipes are clean, there is less resistance. Is there an ashram close to where you live? Can you describe your daily routine?

Primordial nature lies in the heart... From http://www.yogichen.org/cw/cw32/bk084.html And http://www.yogichen.org/cw/cw32/bk085.html

You know, SJ, that is a strange question to me. In shamatha, if there is any movement of mind you are no longer in shamatha, therefore there is no way to assess anything "during shamatha" as you have asked. If you are seeking insight, then that would be vipassana, wouldn't it?

You know, this is right on in so many ways. In a way, it is the theory behind sambhavi, the reason why so many traditions talk about rolling the eyes upwards. In the quotes I have presented, the Buddhists are saying that the brow area separates out the clear light. The other aspect is that of touching the tip of the tongue on the upper soft palate, or at various locations of the upper palette. When I press the tip of the tongue into the top front of the palette, not only does it feel electrical and tingly, but it produces a definite magnetic pressure from the brow towards the tip of the tongue. When I move the tongue further back it changes the angle of the magnetic pull. If you get the angle just right, you hit a point behind the brow which is very ecstatic. If you pull the magnetic flow downwards by relaxing deeply and letting go (as if you were going to fall asleep), your consciousness will dissolve into the central channel and it feels like you are going to pass out. But if you are not prepared it will make you feel sick if you do it too quickly. Yes, sambhavi and kechari combined are two very powerful practices.

I don't think so. The source of the kati channel is the heart. There is a pool of awareness in the heart. It comes out of the eyes and resembles a gush of water (the first time it happened to me). The channel is said to start at the heart, go up the central channel, split and curve around the inside of the head around the ears, and then go to each eye. When the left bifurcated kati channel is clear, you see a moon on the left. When the right one is clear, you see a sun on the right. It is funny, but in the Choying Dzod, they mention the moon and sun a few times... http://www.mahamudracenter.org/draftstudyguidetolongchenrabjammeditations.pdf I don't believe the sun and the moon are metaphors because I have seen them during gazing practice, but not both at the same time. It is an interesting phenomenon because I recall a kundalini guru telling about the moon and the sun, and that if you can see both at the same time and then merge the two, you can stop time. Fact or fiction?

Hi Zoom, is that book for sale somewhere?

Hi, this thread is about pressure between the eyebrows. If you wish to discuss something other than the topic, please start a new thread.

Hi Spotless, I'm confused. In your first post in this thread you said that you have experienced this pressure between the eyebrows for over 40 yrs, yet in this post today you say "I have never personally experienced intense uncomfortable pressure between the eyebrows". http://thetaobums.com/topic/36844-dharmawheel-pressure-between-the-eyebrows-bad-advice/?p=591298 In that post you said this: Your statements are confusing. In your response to Dawei, are you addressing the pain aspect instead of the magnetic pull? There is a difference. I have never found the pressure from the magnetic pull between the eyebrows to be painful. Intense, yes, but not painful. Your post comes across like it is addressing pain from the magnetic pull between the eyebrows. What I have found is that trying to maintain a point of view during meditation becomes very painful after a while. An example of this is when I decide to do a meditation and maintain the point of view that reality is a dream, an illusion. The act of trying to maintain a conceptual conglomerate is a constructed endeavor, one which requires energy and focus. This focus and accumulation of energy can become very painful. One clue the Dawei mentioned is that a single thought can bring the pressure/pain back. The magnetic pull is not produced by effort, it is produced by relaxation, by releasing any tension in the forehead, in the eyes and around the nose. Even sambhavi can be very painful if you tense up. The method that activates the magnetic pull between the brows that works for me consistently is to gently inhale through the nose as if one were trying to smell a very subtle aroma, while focusing on the point at the top of the sinus cavity, just behind the center of he eyebrows. Then, relax. There is no force or tension nor is there any pain. It is all very subtle. It works best when both sinuses are clear and the in breath and out breath are balanced. I will agree that incorrect head posture will also produce pain, but that particular pain occurs at the base of the skull, somewhere near the medulla?

Here is some more about pressure and the activation of sahasrara and ajna ( for us kundalini yogis and yoginis) From Kundalini Tantra - Saraswati That is actually a good description ... Simultaneous introversion and extroversion. http://www.amazon.com/Kundalini-Tantra-Re-print-Golden-Jubilee/dp/8185787158/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1420092970&sr=1-6&keywords=saraswati

It is an interesting topic. More here. http://thetaobums.com/topic/36844-dharmawheel-pressure-between-the-eyebrows-bad-advice/# It is funny that you tied it into the Red Phoenix. Many people have experienced this phenomenon and very few of them if any have heard of Kunlun or the Red Phoenix. It is a third eye phenomenon.

http://www.mahamudracenter.org/draftstudyguidetolongchenrabjammeditations.pdf A Guide to the Four Chog Zhag and Three Samadhis of the Chöying Dzöd This is by far one of the best books I have read in long time. It reminds me of "Buddhahood Without Meditation" but explains allot more.

Hi Dawei,Here are my ideas about this phenomenon. I don't think it is a blockage. It is more like the hole at the bottom of the bath tub, a region where two dimensions meet, a doorway like in a pressurized spaceship. Many Buddhist books say the the central channel terminates at the brow. They also say that the left and right channels terminate at the nostrils. The phenomenon called "collapsing the left and right channels into the central channel" is said to be a primary method to experience spiritual awakening (if I can use such vague terms). In tummo, you generate heat and then direct the mixture up through the other end of the central channel below the navel. Or, you direct the bottoms of the left and channels into the bottom of the central channel. I have heard that bottom up is safer than top down, but then top down is easier and because it is easier, more people accidentally activate it without the proper background or knowledge. That is why breath meditation, is key. Typically there is always one nostril which is more open than the other one, and in normal healthy beings, it shifts from one nostril to the other every four hours or so. Breath meditation balances the in breath and the out breath resulting in an equal flow of air through both the left and right sides. This balance promotes the collapse of the left and right channels into the central channel, whose termination point is between the brows. Now, the central channel, which is the great dissolver and opening to the void and what lies beyond, is kind of like the hole at the bottom of the tub. When someone pulls the plug out of a filled tub, the pressure from the water is brought to bear and in spiraling fashion, the water is sucked out (or pushed) through the hole. This event is the feeling of pressure. Yes, it feels like a balloon releasing pressure, or a magnetic pull like there was a black hole right between the eyebrows. And when it gets activated, it pulls in the left and right channels, starting withe tips of those channels in the nostrils, which is why the whole nose goes numb when the left and right channels are balanced and collapsing. Now, here is the thing. You can collapse the left and right channels outwards or you can collapse them inwards. Once the pressure starts, you can direct the pressure or pull. You use visualization augmented by visualizing a spiraling swirl of energy outwards or inwards. If you push it out you end up in other planes. If you suck it inwards down the central you can dissolve the whole outer world into yourself. If you suck it down into the heart region, which is where the black hole exists, it will produce fear, the feeling of dying and the dissolution of the body/mind. But if you can get over those conscious feelings, and the feelings that your consciousness is dissolving away, you can get beyond, which you find is also a huge open space with layers of planes superimposed one on top of each other. So, there is the idea that you can actually control this pressure and direct it. When I first noticed the pressure, that magnetic pull like a mini black hole, it got bigger and stronger as the days passed. Some nights the pressure would move around my whole face, warping it and twisting it as it moved about. I enjoyed the feeling tremendously. It never did any damage nor produced any pain. It was like the photo editor in Windows, the special effects one that twists the picture into spirals. But then one night, the magnetic pull moved to the back of the head and I kid you not, it was trying to suck me out into this huge open space. I fought with all my might for over 20 minutes not to be sucked out into space. If I knew now what I didn't know then I would have gone for it. Have you ever seen a cat frightened by a vacuum cleaner? Like the machine was going to break apart the individual atoms of the cat and be lost forever into the dustbag? That is how I felt. The Kunlun technique called the Red Phoenix is precisely a practice to develop and direct the pressure, the magnetic pull, to direct and work with the central channel's uppermost termination point. Perhaps termination point is a bad term. It is more like a bottle neck with a cork stuck in it. One day you put a hole in the cork. You keep at it until eventually you pull out the cork... Anyway, enough of that. Hopefully this will help someone get a better understanding of this phenomenon and not treat like it is some kind of disease.

It is a good book. Helped me allot.Funny too, I think the usage of the term "kundalini" is only by the writer. In my other book called "the Six Yogas of Naropa" by Glen Mullen, there is no usage of the term "kundalini" at all. P.S. I am not a scholar. I hope I don't give that impression.

Interesting idea. Had a look at "The Bliss of Inner Fire" (six yogas of Naropa) and I found this:

I came across this site today and noticed that there were many references to pressure between the eyebrows as relates to kundalini in the various posts. http://anmolmehta.com/blog/2008/01/03/kundalini-awakening-symptoms/?cp=1 you would think that Malcolm would know all this stuff, like Heart drops of Dharmakaya, the drops, the blazing, the central channel, tummo etc.. After all, he is supposed to be a tibetan doctor. There must be some Buddhist writings somewhere that talk about pressure between the eyebrows when dealing with Buddhist tantric practices...

Yes, there is kind of a wave that arises after about 40 or 45 minutes that is easy to sense after having done many meditations. It is the wave which dissociates the physical body from the senses. After the wave comes, it feels like you have lost connection to the physical body, a kind of sleep paralysis if you will. Here is some more about your exploding nimittas or counterpoint signs, from Ajahn Brahm's Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond.. And yes, when you first learn about theses things, the conceptual mind wants to get into the meditations even more and this hinders the meditations. It wants to analyze, discriminate, assess and evaluate. This of course is a distraction and is interfering with relaxed concentration. The key is to persist, become familiar and keep the assessments of the nimittas to momentary assessments, not allowing the conceptual mind to gain control and proliferate a series of thoughts. Sounds like you are doing very well in your practice

You don't need the mantra (matched with the breathing) to see the nimittas. However, the mantra makes it easier to stay focused on the breathing and get to a deeper state of calm faster and then the effect lasts longer. It is the state of calm that reveals the nimitta. The instructions that I have found say to ignore the nimitta until it is so bright and round that you can no longer ignore it, then you drop everything else and switch focus to the center of the nimitta. At that point the nimitta looks like moon or a sun but it is so bright it is like looking at a plasma torch. Here is some insight from Shaila Catherine, from her book called Focused and Fearless

From Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond -Ajahn Brahm When the nimitta is radiant and stable, then its energy builds up moment by moment. It is like adding peace upon peace upon peace, until the peace becomes huge! As the peace becomes huge, the pītisukha becomes huge, and the nimitta grows in luminosity. If one can maintain the one-pointedness here by keeping ones focus on the very center of the nimitta, the power will reach a critical level. One will feel as if the knower is being drawn into the nimitta, that one is falling into the most glorious bliss. Alternatively, one may feel that the nimitta approaches until it envelops the knower, swallowing one up in cosmic ecstasy. One is entering jhāna.

This should not be taken as any kind of authentic or useful advice or instruction. (Sorry)

Do you have any references or sources for what you are trying to convey? You seem to be trying to present yourself as someone whom is familiar with thogal practices but your terminology is foreign, and you mix up some of the concepts. You are coming across like an intellectual who is testing your writing ability without any true understanding of the practices, concepts or respect the subject deserves. Some stupid things that you have said, and wouldn't say if you did practice.. Masters do not stare directly at the sun as you have implied. It would burn out their retinas. The more you concentrate does not make more squiggles appear. The number of squiggles remains constant. The squiggles are not primordial light. They are actually the blue field entoptic phenomenon, the little white blood corpuscles moving about in the veins in your eyes. If bright light is best for viewing then why is the dark retreat used at all? It is not the intellect that you are training to direct attention to the visual field. You are training the kati channel from the heart to the eyes. The intellect has nothing to do with it aside from trying to stay out of he way and not end up grasping at the visions. Rather than try to appear knowledgable about something you obviously know nothing about, why don't you provide links to authentic books on thogal? That would help people more than you trying to bolster your ego and prop yourself up as an expert. Sorry for the admonition, but sometimes you just got to say something... Some books... the Instructions on the Six Lamps. -Archard the Practice of Dzogchen in the Zhang-Zhung Tradition of Tibet -J M Reynolds Naked Awareness. -Karma Chagme Naked Seeing -C Hatchell Also, this topic has been examined here before. http://thetaobums.com/topic/36590-vajra-strands/

First off, congratulations Kubba! Your are entering the realm of nirvikalpa samadhi, the breathless samadhi. I have found that the very bright lights usually appear during a regular breath meditation, consistently after about 45 minutes of breath meditation. The very bright lights, at this point only last for a few minutes. If I include a mantra, such as Buddho matching the in and out breaths, sometimes the lights (nimittas) appear sooner and can last up to ten minutes or more. Beautiful lights, strange formations, un-worldly colors... During some states of samadhi, I can no longer sense the body so I can't tell if it is breathing or not. However, during a few of my gazing meditations, where I focus on the fresh awareness in the eyes, with fixed eyes, I have experienced the connection between the active outer breath cutting itself off and the strange sensation of an 'internal' breathing continuing without any volition on my part whatsoever. At first it felt like there was no more connection to the lower abdomen which was doing the breathing. The first time, it freaked me out and blew my meditation. You have to keep doing what you are doing until you are no longer surprised, fearful or swayed. Become so familiar with the process that you can see it through. You are standing on the precipice of a significant milestone on your journey. Good for you!

I also found an interesting book which talks about the visions, nimittas of Ajahn Mun. It seems he could obtain teachings from nimittas... http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/acariya-mun.pdf