Tibetan_Ice

That guy is so wrong about Raja yoga that perhaps he should blame his ignorance on the scholars from whom he obtained his misinformation. He is a real mouthpiece, isn't he? Got kundalini backwards, doesn't he? Kundalini wipes out the self. It does not require destruction of the little self before it manifests. Case in point, all the kundalini active people with bad experiences while their self is being attacked, subdued and disintegrated.. Ellie Collie, etc etc etc Krishnamurti is a big waste it time. Read about UG Krishnamurti instead. And, any teacher might say to forget about powers and siddhis while learning the beginner states, but any teacher that can't demonstrate any siddhis should not be teaching. I don't know why you keep bringing up non buddhist fakirs in the buddhist forum. It is almost like your behavior stems from a lack of confidence and understanding in all schools and you are seeking someone to tell you the truth. Nobody can do that for you, you have to discover the truth for yourself. Im not really interested in furthering any discussion with you for I find you to be so scattered and lacking in control and perspicacity that you would inevitably waste everyone's time. You can't get there by discussing philosophy, especially crappy philosophy which is not grounded in experience. Let the scholars be, they are only parrots. And, like someone else told you, pick one cake and eat it. And dropping the self is not the point. That is a form of nihilism. The self will drop on its own if only you don't succumb to fear and let it drop when the real experience comes calling.. But dropping the self doesn't necessarily cause the real experience to arise, else everyone who falls asleep would be enlightened.

If you knew yourself for even one moment, if you could just glimpse your most beautiful face, maybe you wouldnt slumber so deeply in that house of clay. Why not move into your house of joy and shine into every crevice! For you are the secret Treasure-bearer, and always have been. Didnt you know? ~Rumi

You're right! You prove it! Reading my experiences has set you back spiritually several years, if not decades. It has also seemed to stilt your intelligence!

http://hridaya-yoga.com/nisargadatta-maharaj-about-love/

I have seen that heart center. Ramana is laughing at you now... http://bhagavan-ramana.org/heart.html

My Guru told me: ...Go back to that state of pure being, where the I am is still in its purity before it got contaminated with I am this or I am that. Your burden is of false self-identificationsabandon them all. My guru told me, Trust me, I tell you: you are Divine. Take it as the absolute truth. Your joy is divine, your suffering is divine too. All comes from God. Remember it always. You are God, your will alone is done. I did believe him and soon realized how wonderfully true and accurate were his words. I did not condition my mind by thinking, I am God, I am wonderful, I am beyond. I simply followed his instruction, which was to focus the mind on pure being, I am, and stay in it. I used to sit for hours together, with nothing but the I am in my mind and soon the peace and joy and deep all-embracing love became my normal state. In it all disappearedmyself, my guru, the life I lived, the world around me. Only peace remained, and unfathomable silence. (I Am That, Dialogue 51, April 16, 1971).[web 7]

If you are going to call this nonsense, then you should state your reasons and try to support your point of view.

That is correct. You must sustain the feeling of "I am". But what is missed, and is hard to understand in that book is that what you are seeking is beyond the "I am". The "I am" dissolves revealing the witness of the "I am". You must perform samyama, one pointed attention, on the feeling of "I am" until it dissolves, revealing what is beyond. The video I posted explains that more clearly than the book. What happens if you pursue this kind of inquiry is that at first you realize that there is a conceptual "I am" which you construct through thoughts, which disappears if you do not think. That is not the "feeling of I am". The feeling of "I am" comes from a region just to the right of the physical heart, and resembles a thumb. It is the pure feeling of "I am". If you are lucky, one time you may spontaneously point your awareness downward through the neck and chest to the right of your heart and behold a wonderful loving little "you" down there looking back up at your conceptual mind. Magic! But focusing directly on this location is not proper practice. You must focus on the feeling of "I am" for it pervades everywhere. Then keep focusing. The feeling of "I am" has no location. When it dissolves you will find yourself in an immense space and the "you" you were is just a pin prick of a point of view. When, that pure essence of the beyond manifests into the normal reality unencumbered by conceptual mind or tainted by the winds, it is the most mind blowing experience you can ever imagine. You are everything. You feel immense love, bliss, silence, clarity, luminosity.... Love yourself. Accept all that you are unconditionally, warts and all. You have to love yourself in order to break through and be able to remain in the feeling of "I am". Send love to your heart. Send gratitude. Be thankful. It will respond with a shower of tingles. You are on the right path...

Tell your friend to try her teachers' drums. Maybe the instructors replace their skins more often, or have heavier skins, deeper drums, thicker walls on the drums etc... Also, examine the clothes. Is the fabric she wears sound absorbent or reflective? What type of fabrics do the others wear? Then, have her examine her ears. Perhaps others' drumming would sound the same if the other drums were as close to her ears as her drum is to her ears when she drums. A drum that is ten feet away sounds different than a drum that is right next to the body. Then, record her drumming and the other's drumming, playing exactly he same thing, in separate sessions. Then play them back, disguising the order. See if she can tell the difference.

From "the Union of Dzogchen and Bodhicitta by Anyen Rinpoche" http://www.amazon.com/Union-Dzogchen-Bodhichitta-Anyen-Rinpoche-ebook/dp/B002BA4HRE/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid= Is that what it is all about? Heightened perception?Have to admit, if someone pulled a gun out on me, he'd have my undivided attention, that's for sure!!

If you don't mind me asking, what was your object of meditation? Did you pass through the jhanas?

Would you call the "unconditioned mind" the natural state, or what is being introduced by the transmission of Dzogchen gurus? Once, when I was 16, I got into a motorcycle accident. I broadsided a station wagon and as my body flew over the station wagon and landed on the pavement, I watched the whole event from about 50 feet away. My 'point of view' was just a location in this huge darkish space and the whole scene looked like a movie in slow motion. Another time, I was meditating at work during a break and suddenly, my point of view shifted to be about 4 feet in back of the body. I got up from the meditation session and walked back to my desk like that. The whole outer world was just a scene that I was watching and somehow controlling (I could still do things) but from a huge open darkish space that didn't have much else in it. The effect finally wore off after about a 1/2 hour. Another time, I had been meditating in the park and later I walked into a supermarket to buy food. The same sort of event took place. Except, this time, the whole external scene became a small round circle of pictures displaying above the forehead about 10 feet away, while my point of view was in this large darkish space just watching. These events lead me to believe it is not only through shock that one can reach this state.. That huge darkish space... what else would you call it? The Natural state? Rigpa? Dharmadatu?

Wangchungman, did you ever master shamatha or one pointed concentration?

Your statements remind me of the two truths and the fact that Dzoghen does not support the two truths. In accordance, then yes, there would be only one type of bodhicitta, but two different means of arriving at the same conclusion.

That is very interesting. Thank you for that. Did you ever succeed in dissolving your body?

Here is a very good explanation of the blue entoptic field

how do you know? Do you have training?Those are floaters. What stage is next? The blue field entoptic stars/balls? There is a video of them on the first page of this thread.

Thanks Steve for taking the time to write all of that. Exactly! So, training in the secret arousing of bodhicitta, the absolute bodhicitta, according to the boo "Dakini Teachings" is identical to most Dzogchen instructions of resting in the natural state. It is the penultimate instruction. Words Of My Perfect Teacher also denotes this elevation of the meaning of bodhicitta http://books.google.ca/books?id=40i38mGQ6aAC&pg=PA219&lpg=PA219&dq=types+of+bodhicitta&source=bl&ots=a6RXGkVhuD&sig=SSsXSEjrd7RGmeCM7-W-ML7al3o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HN9LVPbaLMj1iQKh2IHgAg&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBzgU#v=onepage&q=types%20of%20bodhicitta&f=false The vajra strands, the kati channel, the gazing, the arising and dissolution of visions is a method of working with the absolute bodhicitta, in my opinion.

There is no mention of the training of the secret arousing of absolute bodhicitta in that book. And, the second volume is restricted....

Ngondro is a series of preliminary practices which include mantra recitations and prostrations. They address relative bodhicitta. The quote from Dakini Teachings is referring to absolute bodhicitta, which does not include recitations, mantra or any other form of action. Why else would it say to abandon your chanting and recitations? And, as it says, it is effortless, and ngondro is not effortless.. So unless you recognize the differing levels of bodhicitta and the implications of each, I can see how you might think that developing relative bodhicitta is the same as absolute bodhicitta.

Secret bodhicitta: I don't think these are ngondro practices...From Dakini Teachings Padmasambhava...

And what exactly does all that have to do with varjra strands?

I disagree. Your breath does not guide you deeper within. Your breath only stirs the winds. It is the lack of breath that reveals the essence. See: nirvikalpa samadhi Stopping the breath naturally is the method used to sever the bond between body and mind.

These are not practices, they are sincere naturally occuring states which arise naturally from the heart. Love and devotion go together. Love produces devotion. Devotion without love is a fool's game.