Tibetan_Ice

Well, according to that book the easiest method for "realizing primordial wisdom" is by gazing, and the centre between the brows plays a role too.. If I close my eyelids halfway and mentally focus on the area of the forehead, I can see a luminous essence which is a lighter sample of that pool of water/bliss/silence/love which exists around the heart. It is really not that hard. The essence is lustrous and luminous. It ties in with third eye sight and it is found quite pronouncedly right before the eyes and on the lower forehead. During my last gazing meditation, I found myself in a vision or visual field which was very strange. This field consisted of dark red and dark orange pipes of sorts, intertwining plumbing. There were no bright lights, but just enough light to make out slabs of jagged brown chunks with many many pipes or tubes leading around and everywhere. I thought I might have been dreaming but I was entirely lucid. As in dreams, I pushed my way through some dark reddish brown slabs of sorts, but there was only more tubes or pipes beyond. I could not tell what was up or down. And he very strange thing was that every ten seconds or so, my physical heart would emit a shower of tingles (big rush). I played in this state for over 45 minutes. There was little change in scenery, just massive amounts of dark red/brown and orange pipes/tubes and jagged pieces of broken cement (that's how I would describe it). The other thing that has been happening is that now I am seeing sheets of entire visual scenes suddenly pick up and move around. A whole scene of visions suddenly moves away, like a someone has moved a painting or a projection, and then another slide or portrait is moved into view. The other things I am seeing are small thin lines that look exactly like fingerprints made out of red light, as well a a circle center with concentric circles of rainbow light surrounding the center and progressing outwards, just like in the thogal picture books. So maybe these experiences are called "resting in the view" but I believe I am watching manifestations of primordial wisdom coming up through the Kati channel precipitated by gazing. It is actually kind of fun. You never know what you are going to see next!

What is "resting in the view"?What does that mean? Padmasambhava's "Natural Liberation" states that one does not cultivate a view.. The only "view" presented is not an intellectual view, but a practice. The practice of observing primordial wisdom. And the way to do that is by gazing at it. It also states that this is not about maintaining a view of emptiness, nor any form of conceptual view, for those types of views dissolve. So what exactly are you saying when you say that these meditators are "resting in the view".

Further, it says in the article itself hat the rigpa meditation is a completion stage... Further, when Alan Wallace starts to get into the awareness of awareness practices, that is when he starts mentioning to keep the eyes open or partially open.

Yes but if the vajrayana practitioners normally meditate with eyes open, this would have opened the Kati channel. According to Padmasambhava, if the eyes are closed this channel is closed. http://thetaobums.com/topic/36286-more-about-the-kati-crystal-heart-channel/?p=579778 Also, when you "rest in rigpa", are the eyes supposed to be open or closed? (Or partially open)? You don't do thogal with eyes closed...

Did you recently get an empowerment?

Natural Liberation: Padmasambhava's Teachings on the Six Bardos by Padmasambhava INSIGHT Revealing the Nature of Awareness In that way, until genuine quiescence arises in your mind-stream, use numerous techniques to settle your mind in its natural state. As an analogy, if you wish to look at reflections and the planets and stars in a pool of water, you will not see them if the water is disturbed by waves and ripples. But you will clearly see them by looking into a pool in which the water is limpid and unmoving. Likewise, when the mind is jolted around by the wind of objects, like a rider on a bucking bronco, even if you are introduced to awareness, you will not identify it; for once the mind is helplessly manipulated by compulsive ideation, it does not see its own nature. According to the custom of some teaching traditions, you are first introduced to the view, and upon that basis you seek the meditative state. This makes it difficult to identify awareness. In the tradition presented here, you first establish the meditative state, then on that basis you are introduced to the view. This profound point makes it impossible for you not to identify awareness. Therefore, first settle your mind in its natural state, then bring forth genuine quiescence in your mind-stream, and reveal the nature of awareness. Position your body with the seven attributes like before. Steadily fix your gaze in the space in front of you, into the vacuity at the level of the tip of your nose, without any disorderliness or duplicity. This is the benefit of this gaze: in the center of the hearts of all beings there is the hollow crystal kati channel, which is a channel of primordial wisdom. If it points down and is closed off, primordial wisdom is obscured, and delusion grows. Thus, in animals that channel faces downwards and is closed off, so they are foolish and deluded. In humans that channel points horizontally and is slightly open, so human intelligence is bright and our consciousness is clear. In people who have attained siddhis and in bodhisattvas that channel is open and faces upwards, so there arise unimaginable samādhis, primordial wisdom of knowledge, and vast extrasensory perceptions. These occur due to the open quality of that channel of primordial wisdom. Thus, when the eyes are closed, that channel is closed off and points down, so consciousness is dimmed by the delusion of darkness. By steadily fixing the gaze, that channel faces up and opens, which isolates pure awareness from impure awareness. Then clear, thought-free samādhi arises, and numerous pure visions appear. Thus, the gaze is important. In all treatises other than the Tantra of the Sun of the Clear Expanse of the Great Perfection and the Profound Dharma of the Natural Emergence of the Peaceful and Wrathful from Enlightened Awareness, the hollow crystal kati channel is kept secret, and there are no discussions of this special channel of primordial wisdom. This channel is unlike the central channel, the right channel, the left channel, or any of the channels of the five chakras; it is absolutely not the same as any of them. Its shape is like that of a peppercorn that is just about open, there is no blood or lymph inside it, and it is limpid and clear. A special technique for opening this is hidden in the instructions on the natural liberation pertaining to the lower orifice, great bliss, and desire. The lower yānas do not have even the name of this channel. Thus, while steadily maintaining the gaze, place the awareness unwaveringly, steadily, clearly, nakedly, and fixedly, without having anything on which to meditate, in the sphere of space. When stability increases, examine the consciousness that is stable. Then gently release and relax. Again place it steadily, and steadfastly observe the consciousness of that moment. What is the nature of that mind? Let it steadfastly observe itself. Is it something clear and steady, or is it an emptiness that is nothing? Is there something there to recognize? Look again and again, and report your experience to me! ***end quotes*** My comments are these: The Kati channel is a separate channel from the central channel. That explains allot. It is developed by gazing with eyes open. In my opinion, it is opened by gazing with love.

There is a section on thogal practices and the visions as well as a section on the bardo. The book is over 300 pages long and is quite extensive. Alan Wallace uses parts of the teachings in his retreats, even his latest one.. http://media.sbinstitute.com/courses/fall-2014/ You can also preview some of the book on Amazon... http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Liberation-Padmasambhavas-Teachings-Bardos/dp/0861711319

http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Liberation-Padmasambhavas-Teachings-Bardos/dp/0861711319

http://arts.nationalpost.com/2014/08/11/robin-williams-dead-at-63-police-believe-comedic-actor-committed-suicide-at-his-california-home/?__federated=1 We should send him our prayers. He is going to need them.

Aren't you giving the wrong message here? Are you saying that Tibetan Buddhists have no morals or ethics? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Precepts http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ethics-indian-buddhism/ In some countries they cut off your hand for stealing...

Fall 2014 Shamatha, Vipashyana, Dream Yoga, and the Experience of Pristine Awareness in the Great Perfection Tradition of Tibetan Buddhism http://media.sbinstitute.com/courses/fall-2014/

Yes, according to Alan, the 'substrate consciousness' is the (alaya-vijnana).

From "Natural Liberation" : Padmasambhava's Teachings on the Six Bardos by Padmasambhava

Thanks, Apech

I bought my copy from legitimate sources. Is that how you represent Buddhism by posting links to bootleg copies?

Yahoo! The book I've waited for for at least six months has finally shipped! http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Seeing-Perfection-Visionary-Renaissance/dp/0199982910/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390705825&sr=8-1&keywords=Naked+seeing

Thanks Steve I wish they had a center like that in Canada. I wish I was independently wealthy and could quit working in order to pursue these smiling masters in person. I guess I'll just have to keep trudging along and visit them in the astral when I can.

Well thank you Bob!

http://www.shangshungstore.org/index.php?l=product_detail&p=476 http://new.brozkeff.net/dzogchen/Namkhai%20Norbu%20-%20Song%20of%20Vajra.pdf http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Om_mani_padme_hum

http://thetaobums.com/topic/26671-master-nan-huai-chin-dead-at-94/ 1. I've read your letters. You guys want to learn from me. I've never said I was enlightened. I've never believed I was spreading Buddhism. Furthermore, I've never had any sect or students. It's been like this for more than a few decades. Everything I know are the in the books. If you read into it and get any funny ideas about me and what I said, it's you who are responsible for being duped and tricked. 2. There is saying, "rely on the law but not on people. rely on wisdom, not knowledge." If you have questions, go read the classics. Why do you have to find a person to worship and rely on? I'm 90 years. I'm tired. I have no energy to deal with so many people. 3. The college I setup is to to investigate some knowledge and to do research together. We do not take any more new students. The students that we have are just to do research together, and they were selected with some basic criteria and good serendipity. Anyone who says they have taken classes and learned here -- well, those are their words, not mine. 4. You guys have read too many novels and fanciful stories. Breaking your arm to learn Buddhism? Jumping in the ice river or off the top floor when I don't meet you? Kneeling until I meet you? That is psychological blackmail. Is this reasonable to common sense? Are you really learning Buddhism? Why do you use such threatening measures? It's self deception. I'm a 90 year old man. Why do you have to threaten an old man to learn the Tao? You guys are cultivated intellectuals, how can you do something like this? 5. I've never wanted to be a master. I never wanted to take students. I have no organization called Nan sect. I opposed sects and religions my entire life. That's the business of society. 6. You think that once you have a teacher you will become a Buddha? If you experience the esoteric knowledge in person you will reach the Tao? That's ridiculous. You guys always talk about saving others and building merit. Your own life is a mess! Start from becoming a normal person. Get a real job. Be plain and simple and do things by the rules. Don't blame heaven or people. Only using self-reflection and living a honest life is the foundation of merit. Otherwise you will just become a slacker with fanciful dreams and a burden to society. Cultivation begins with changing your psychology and habits, with meditation as mere support. Merit is the beginning of wisdom. 7. You want to become a buddha after learning from me? I'm 90 already, and I still haven't seen a real Buddha or immortal yet. Stop being superstitious. All the books I wrote are only book knowledge and intellectual. Don't get tricked by those books. Lwen Yu Summary is my main effort. There are many places to learn Zen. Go over there to meditate. I've never promoted Buddhism. When I did have Zen classes, those were just organized by colleges, and the people were screened vigorously. We just did some research together. Afterwards, everyone still had to go back to live normal lives, to rub against the difficulties of life to strengthen their heart, and to improve their habits. Everyone must walk their own paths. You want help from other people? Help yourself! If you really believe in cause and effect, start by using proper motivation and personal inspection is the intelligent way to begin. This is cultivation's heart. Your eyes are always looking outward, blaming heaven and earth, relying on gurus and saints and teachers to worship. This is self-deception and playing a joke on the world.

You've just insulted me (5 years mantra practice), most of the non-Norbu Buddhists, countless Hindus and anyone whom prays. What a go! And you did that all on your own too!

Why don't you do some research on consciousness while brain dead? You might learn that there is still awareness without the physical brain. Better yet, why don't you try the practice of imagining or visualizing your light body stepping out ahead of you and visualize that you can see from that perspective. What does that tell you about the relationship of the brain, sense consciousnesses and awareness? These instructions are from Kunlun and Olds' thogal book, called "Primordial Grace".

http://youtu.be/AT4912b3Tdo