Tibetan_Ice

I am not a scholar, I am a practitioner. You are not getting it. Now you have insulted Sivananda by saying that "Everything I saw at AYP with the exception of Self-Enquiry was Raja Yoga as Sivananda defines it." You didn't understand how AYP does not teach one pointed concentration and that Raja Yoga does. You don't understand that AYP has misunderstood Samyama, and dharana. There is nowhere in AYP that teaches to fix the attention on one object and maintain that concentration. And that is precisely what Raja Yoga teaches, and Sivananda is no exception. If you don't believe me, see for yourself: This is Sivananda on "concentration" in Raja Yoga. http://sivanandaonline.org/public_html/?cmd=displaysection&section_id=634&format=html (See section on dharana, direct link does not work) There is no practice in AYP that is like this: "The mind assumes the form of only one object. All other operations of the mind are suspended or stopped. ". Not DM mantra repetition, not the bastardized samyama, nothing. Yogani totally missed it. Sivananda understands Patanjali's limbs of yoga and that is what he teaches. You don't appear to get it... Why don't you go and read the whole section on Raja Yoga on Sivananda's site: http://sivanandaonline.org/public_html/?cmd=displaysection&section_id=634&format=html AYP is a fusion of customized hatha yoga, customized kundalini yoga with a mix of TM to take the energy overload right up into the brain. The cars may look the same to the inexperienced beginner, but once you jump in and drive them for a while, you will see that not all cars are Jaguars.

Jax, What you have done is replace the "self" with "no-self" and are clinging and grasping at that. Anyone whom says that "there is no one there to become enlightened" has fallen victim to replacing one concept with another.

I did AYP for 4 1/2 years. I practiced 2 or 3 times a day and missed only 3 days during that 4 1/2 years. Your statement that AYP is "pretty standard raja yoga" bothers me. You mustn't have any experience with Raja Yoga because if you did, you wouldn't be saying that. There is no TM style mantra meditation in Raja Yoga. There is mantra repetition in Raja Yoga but it is for the energetic signature which resonates with the various chakras or psychic channels, stimulating sympathetic resonating with thought forms and energetic bodies. TM (or Deep Meditation) is a form of meditation which stimulates the relaxation response. Yogani's mantras are a gross misunderstanding. You never find AUM in the middle of true Hindu mantras as AUM is usually always at the beginning. Yogani took the AUM out of spinal breathing. He redefined "samyama" and deceives people about it. Here is a link about how AYP is not "standard" anything. It is Yogani's science experiment.. And the public are his Guinea pigs. http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/21469-patanjalis-sutras-and-samyama-questions/page-1 Tell me this. How do you know that AYP is Pretty standard Raja Yoga? Do you have a background of some other source of Raja Yoga to compare it to? How long did you practice that "standard Raja Yoga" ? Why did you leave your Raja Yoga guru and join AYP? This is a Raja Yoga book: https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/merging-with-siva The main method of pranayama is a controlled breathing pattern of 9-1-9-1. In AYP there is no strictly regulated breathing pattern for pranayama. And if you don't have any other background, how can you say that "AYP worked for you"? Maybe what you think is samadhi is not samadhi at all, or a lesser form. Cultivating ecstatic conductivity is way different from the bliss derived from solid concentrative meditation. Anyone can train the orgasmic nerves to stay "on" after years of practice. To think that that has any relation to realization is a misdirection. Even Yogani's definition of realization as the combination of ecstatic conductivity and inner silence is a pile of crap. There is already tons of bliss in rigpa, the pristine awareness, the primordial ground, you don't have to cultivate and join it to anything. Buddhism teaches not to be attached to it, unlike the gross grasping at sexual energy that AYP promotes. Yogani says from his "Liberation –The Fruition of Yoga Yogani From The AYP Enlightenment Series": If you want to prop yourself up as an authority on Raja Yoga and declare that AYP is "standard", then prove it to me. But just from what you wrote and how you wrote it I know you don't have the background.

I never said that the practices don't work. Please don't speak for me and misrepresent my point of view. Sure, you get results like energetic overloading. And TM does elicit the relaxation response. AYP combines TM with Customized Raja yoga practices and has bastardized the understanding of Patanjali's last three limbs of yoga. If you want to see the difference between TM and the benefits of developing true concentration, read The Attention Revolution by Alan Wallace. Further, AYP does not promote understanding. It's "my way or the highway". A forum of parrots and ass kissers stuck in Yogani's poor understanding of yoga and what it takes to become enlightened. ( not all people on the forum are like that, I still have respect for the people who have seen through Yogani's "science experiment" and don't tow the AYP line) If Yogani would show even a picture of himself then even the common psychic could read his aura and see what they were dealing with. But who cares? It's all scenery anyway. Right? (sarcasm)

Jax, you aren't going to answer my questions, are you? You've implied that this practice "liberates" but you are missing a step, the breakthrough. Sure you can realize that the "me" is a conceptual conglomeration constructed by the mind from memories, thoughts, dependant origination, but in order to attain liberation you have to cut through to rigpa. Otherwise, you are like a marmot basking in the sun, sitting there in your alaya-vijinana going nowhere. Further, Buddha never taught "no-self", he taught "not-self".

Full lotus

What is the difference between Peterson is saying and what Mooji is saying.

"The only perspective from which you can ascertain rigpa is rigpa. You can't ascertain it from the perspective of the coarse mind. And you can't ascertain from the perspective of the substrate consciousness either. It can only know itself. " From Alan Wallace's "Pointing out instructions - Rigpa" at 10:40 in.. http://media.sbinstitute.com/courses/fall-2014/27-pointing-out-instructions-rigpa/. Therefore, I conclude that Jax, who is claiming that the knowing of every experience is rigpa, is mistaken and has not understood nor differentiated between coarse mind conceptual grasping and the purity of rigpa. The examples he uses are all coarse mind examples being grasped by the subject. That is not rigpa. He also claims that meditation is not needed, there is nothing to practice... In other words, no need for trekchod, cutting through, shamatha, entering the natural state.. Yet he claims to be a certified Dzogchen teacher, given permission by C N Norbu to teach! It is too bad that there are people like that out there.. Here is the video again.. Now that you have enhanced your understanding of rigpa by reading this thread, do you still agree with Peterson?

Just released! https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Great-Perfection-Lingpas-Visions-ebook/dp/B01AS3WJRK/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=#nav-subnav

Well if you mean that 'being awareness' is arrived at by cutting through then I think you've got it. However, it is easy to be aware of being aware without cutting through. PHAT

There is still one more step.. See the previous video..

Direct introduction to rigpa.. Pristine Awareness! (10 minutes before the end of the video)

What is rigpa? Once again, here is one of my favorite people teaching Dzogchen. Compare that to what Jax said about rigpa in the original post. Like night and day. Wells, perhaps you should watch this video over and over till you get it..

This is interesting... Each one of us has own universe which is quantumly entangled... Not one but many ones.

Speak for yourself. It is not about enriching our lives or fixating on the beauty of the path. That will only lead you back into endless reincarnations. One of the key components to Buddhism is a certain dissatisfaction with life. Dukkha. Dissatisfaction with impermanence and suffering. If you did realize that life is an illusion, wouldn't you lose interest? Wouldn't you want to turn off the TV set? I hope everyone here realizes rainbow body in this lifetime (if they so desire) Wells included. Denying the relative is a form of nihilism, isn't it? I know Tenzin Wangyal has the impetus to try to improve one's daily life. However, that is the exception, not the norm. I can see that better health is a benefit because you have to train the mind. However, doing practices because you want to enhance your daily is for the wrong reasons. Keeping teachings secret benefits only those few whom know the secrets. In this modern age of communication, some authentic gurus are realizing that secrecy will lead to the death of the teachings. The aspiration that all sentient beings come to realization is at odds with secrecy. I believe the path to no more suffering is one wrought with wrestling those intellectual projections and ego games. If you don't learn to deal with them somehow, how are you going to deal with them all by yourself in the bardo? A forum is a great place to test your training wheels. but I agree.. A little compassion, respect and consideration goes a long way.

This sounds suspiciously like a "Oneness" theory, not a realization of Emptiness but some kind of Unity of something.In Buddhism, like in the Nang Jang, the first step is to throw away the label of self-identity, but you don't replace it with its dualistic opposite, unity. https://www.amazon.com/Buddhahood-Without-Meditation-Visionary-Refining/dp/1881847330/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 Therefore, within the context of Dudjom Lingpa's teachings, Unity would be also a form of reification and thus, a form of false thinking. To me, awakening is not shifting from one illusion to another, it is the realization that by reifying concepts we create our own illusion. By grasping the "I" the rest of the dualistic world unfolds. By grasping the scene which lies ahead of our source of manifestation, we enter the illusion.

During the parts where he talks about the numbers of followers each had, can't you see the desire for fame and influence ooze out of his eyes? More analysis on this joker: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/25243-my-experiences-with-sadhguru-isha-inner-engineering-and-bsp/?p=368106 And this is disturbing too... http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/25243-my-experiences-with-sadhguru-isha-inner-engineering-and-bsp/?p=368353

Hi Jetsun, What is your definition of awakened? - realizing that you are not the thinker? - obtaining some new age siddhis like clairvoyance or premonition? - able to read minds or manipulate others' body parts? - major siddhis like walking through walls, leaving footprints in stone, flying through the air? - ability to heal serious diseases in others? - no longer suffering and has no more desires? - can manifest objects out of thin air? - knows all their previous lives? How do you define "awakening"? -

What exactly do you mean by "there is no further liberation possible or necessary."? Are you saying that enlightenment is the dis-identification from the conceptually formed "me" ? And are you saying that this realization produces all the siddhis including rainbow body therefore "there is no further liberation possible or necessary."?

Trashed another thread eh Wells?

If there is no self, then how could I possibly own words? Words are words, nobody owns them. "My own words" is an illusion.(Note: the above statements are a facetious top down response which does not mix well with relative reality. I thought I should clarify this so you (and Steve) don't get the impression that I'm being serious and forgetful of the two realities) Which brings me to another point. Why did you hide your "My First Thogal Vision" thread? I put in a lot of time responding to your misconceptions, trying to point you in the right direction and now it is all gone. It was a valuable thread because it would have helped beginner practitioners distinguish between the impure and pure visions along the thogal path.

Here is a quote from your guru Jax's page. It is a poor quote because there is no reference to the book from where the quote was pulled. But (if you want to believe it, and believe that Jax did not alter it ) here is Namdak himself speaking about the bliss of rigpa. http://nebula.wsimg.com/45823743c01500016d12f675f057520f?AccessKeyId=CD4C5C328372BACD4084&disposition=0&alloworigin=1 Here is another definition of pure and impure for you.. From Bonpo Dzogchen Teachings - Tenzin Namdak

From Lonchengpa's "the Practice of Dzogchen" Wells, get with the program.

What an arrogant deceptive misinterpretation of Buddhism from a commercial entertainer with warped views and shoddy ethics. This doesn't belong in the Buddhist sub forum.