Tibetan_Ice

From As It Is vol 2. - Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche This siddha had five hundred disciples who could also fly with him. Today you can still see where they landed: they left a whole cluster of footprints in the rock, fifty or sixty altogether. In the morning, when they flew towards the west, all the footprints faced towards the west. When they flew back in the afternoon, all the footprints faced towards the east. When you see all these footprints, you are amazed. This is not merely a story. There were also many, many accomplished yogi and yoginis in the Drikung and Drukpa Kagyü School. Their accomplishments were possible because they had attained mastery in samadhi.

From http://read.84000.co/browser/released/UT22084/066/UT22084-066-018.pdf At that time, the great bodhisattva mahāsattva known as Great Nail of Brahmā bowed down toward the Bhagavān with folded hands and said: Ordinary beings do not recognize the nature of all phenomena. They live in the form aggregate, and so their six sense faculties become deluded. There is not a single aggregate to be seen, yet ordinary beings conceptualize the form aggregate. Consequently, some of these people develop doubts about the Buddhas teaching. It is for them that the Bhagavān taught the characteristics of the suchness of phenomena. Thus, here and there they come to know the characteristics of space, which bears everything. This indeed is brave equipoise, a state that cannot be expressed. A most precious wish-fulfilling jewel rests on the crown of his head. Those who perceive a precious Indranīla jewel from afar are very fortunate beings: they will perfect the brave progression. All who have come to see the Teacher are wise indeed. Today in this place, a profound discourse will undoubtedly be proclaimed. O Bhagavān, please give relief to the sentient beings who have come here. Bringing them to full maturation

From The Attention Revolution, Alan Wallace:

http://www.primordialalchemist.com/kunlun-neigung/kunlun-gallery/

More on grasping from "As It Is vol II 2" Grasping: fixation

If the forum is about sharing, why didn't you share your gender in your profile?

Dreambliss, I stay away from Adyashanti. He does not have the skill to differentiate between the levels of realization and often mixes them together, confusing his audience and appearing foolish. One such thing he said that made me drop any respect for his blabberings is when he said that after while all practices no longer work. Dee, you should read more Buddhist books! Like "As It Is II 2"

I'm starting to understand what I have been going through during meditation sessions, thanks to a book called "Meditation on the Clear Light" by Lopono Tenzin Namdak. http://www.amazon.com/The-Meditation-Clear-Light-Transmission/dp/B0076WQZ8Q/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt About four years ago, when I was doing a form of mantra meditation (visualizing the text of the mantra as it sounded - like aaaaaaaaaaaaoooooooooooooommmmmmmm), I would end up in a state where all of a sudden, hundreds of visions would go whizzing by, like a great torrent or swift flowing river. I remember it well because I had asked about that phenomenon on a certain forum and they just said (it's all just scenery).. Sounds familiar? This great torrent of visions lasted for weeks. It was really quite upsetting, not knowing what it was. Because I could not find any information on it, I eventually changed the type of meditation that I was doing and the spectacle of hundreds of visions whizzing by went away. It was quite nerve-racking, sitting there while many many visions, lights and colors go whizzing past. It was like being on a carnival ride, a circus or a fast flight through the galaxy. Since then, I have had that experience many times.. but I've managed to figure it out, because for the last month or so, I have been practising non-meditation - Dzogchen. First I dissolve a few thoughts and then just remain in that area of space, not doing anything at all, except watching, trying to remain neither attached or detached.. After about 10 minutes of just remaining in that space, the visions start up all by themselves. Except, now the visions are no longer a swift moving torrent of colors.. they've slowed down. They are a continual stream, but each scene or vision remains longer. And, some of the visions are so clear and bright that I am having trouble trying to distinguish between regular reality and the visions. The visions look that real. I think I am starting to understand the practice, because after the meditation sessions, I can clearly see that this normal reality appears just like the vivid clear visions during meditation. The fine line between the visions in the vision-state and normal reality is being blurred. Is anyone who is practising Dozghen here having similar experiences?

Imagination implies volition. There is someone whom is feeding energy into thoughts, they imagine something and cause it to grow. Sitting and not feeding the thoughts, leaving them alone, one discovers that they myriad thoughts and visions occur all on their own. Here are the stages according to "The Meditation on the Clear Light" - Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche: Note: he also distinguishes between forced visualizations, or constructed visualizations and the visions that arise from remaining in the natural state. The visions that are referred to above are the visions which arise spontaneously from rigpa, from the heart of awareness..

Back on topic: Some Buddhists claim that you can only recognize the natural state/primordial awareness by becoming clairvoyant. This is supported by the fact that many many teachings say that shamatha/vispassana or the corresponding version of it in the different schools is a necessary preliminary practice. Most all teachers claim that shamatha practice will develop the mundane siddhis (psychic powers). Could it be that clairvoyance, a mundane siddhi, is necessary in order to realize rigpa/primordial wisdom/the natural state? Several Bon teachings indicate that first you practice the preliminary practices, and then once having achieved a certain stability of mind, the teacher points out the nature of mind to the student. Therefore, the implication being, that stabilizing the mind through gradualy refined forms of grasping to non-grasping is part of the process and will reveal the natural state all on it's own. Even Buddha, teaching the jhanas, said that the jhanas are a stepping stone to enlightenment. The jhanas empower the mind. With the empowered mind, it is easier to see that this reality is no different from the dream worlds, the astral planes, the illusion of it all. I found an interesting definition of grasping in "Pointing Out the Nature of Mind - Dzogchen Pith Instructions of Aro Yeshe Junge. He says:

No, I do not have a Dzogchen teacher, other than what teachers have written in books, and the odd connection through the astral. I live in Northern Canada and Dzogchen teachers in person are non-existent. Do you have a teacher? Maybe you could ask him/her about the visions. The main danger, I have read, is mistaking the visions as a part of duality when in fact they are as empty as everything else. That is one of the main themes of my post... about how slowly the 'reality' of the normal world is being eroded and becoming more and more illusory, all on its own, by simply remaining in the natural state and watching the visions appear, stay for a while and then dissolve away.

Rule: in your own words no links or quotes.

It is the heart that illuminates the mind, however corrupt or twisted the mind has become.

It's the alarm clock..

Quite a narrow statement there. What about Easterner Buddhists whom were reincarnated in the west?

I thought Apech would relate better, being a cat and all...

The term "atheism" is an untenable position. In order to first claim that something does not exist, one must be able to realize the object that doesn't exist. If I know what a mouse is, then I can say with certainty that there is no mouse in my pocket. But if I don't know what a mouse is, I have no grounds to claim that my pocket does not contain a mouse. At best, an atheist can only deny the existence of relative subjective interpretations of the term "God" hence the inherent self corroding ideation appears. Further, the belief of nonexistence precludes any acts of searching or really trying to find out what a mouse is, so there is little hope of ever discovering that which is said to not exist, in order to deny its existence.

Maybe Einstein should have used his intuitive sacred gift and realized the destruction and suffering that his scientific discoveries could have caused, instead of putting such deadly knowledge in the hands of the servant... So is he blaming society for his lack of intuition? Leaves a bad taste in my mouth...

Hi S J, I'm having a hard time understanding all this. Many times in this thread you've referred to Gatito's background in Advaita, almost like it is a disease. Yet you yourself seem to have a background in Advaita Vedanta. This I conclude after reading this post of yours.. http://thetaobums.com/topic/25243-my-experiences-with-sadhguru-isha-inner-engineering-and-bsp/?p=368512 So I'm wondering how you would reconcile those statements with your current Buddhist position. Have you really realized the atman/Brahman as you have implied in your post, or were you just pulling our legs?

Hi Steve, The purpose of my comment to that line was to include the idea that neutral objects, those objects which we neither crave nor avert still have the qualities of solidity, color, texture etc. So "how do we give them substance?", I would answer with another question. Why can't we walk through walls or leave footprints in stone? There is some mechanism that is functioning that is preventing us from realizing the emptiness of walls and stone. Perhaps it is the rising of the impure five lights that results in walls and stones being solid. Perhaps if we didn't believe we would not give our mental formations substance? Perhaps we are grasping at the impure five lights and need to get back to the source without grasping. Thus the mind that is manifested from the pure five lights wouldn't be imprisoned by the impure qualities of solidity, heat, cold, time etc. TI

Hi Rex, Actually, I'm not quite sure what Gyatrul is saying. I used to think that "not grasping" was "averting", until I learned that "averting" is a form of grasping. It sounds to me that Gyatrul is saying that there is a mode of perception wherby you can perceive something, yet not grasp at it. I'm not really clear about this, which is why I posted this topic.

Hi Steve I mostly agree with what you've said. I have a few elaborations. I would say that we are attracted, repelled or indifferent/neutral. But, the problem is that we believe them, or give them substance. Yes, conceptual proliferation is grasping, but it is also possilbe to grasp a single thought without the conceptual proliferation or mental tree that builds up around the thought. So it's not just growing the tree of reactive thoughts, but stopping the single seed before it grows. Yes, seeing the grasped and the grasper is part of it. But you have to ask yourself, who is seeing the duality of the grasper and and grasped? In my experience, there is this wide open space that is aware of both the grasper and grasped at that same time. It is further behind. I think the grasper is the "I" thought and it appears whenever there is something to grasp. It seems like every single thought has the "I" thought built in! Also, when you say "grasping is a symptom of ignorance", I think it is important to define ignorance in the Buddhist context. Ignorance is the term used to identify the states of mind that do not realize that reality is a manifestion of the five pure lights. So the five lights manifest into the Buddhist five elements or earth, water, fire, air and space. When we are no longer ignorant, we realize the emptiness of the elements and gain all sorts of nifty powers like being able to walk through walls, fly.. etc.. (Aren't you glad I didn't say the three kayas?) So, on one hand of the bifurcation, you are ignorant and samsara arises, On the other hand, you are no longer ignorant and nirvana arises from the five pure lights. The only thing I can't figure out is that apparently, both samsara and nirvana are illusions and in that huge space, there doesn't seem to be anything in there..

Hi CT If, by altering the direction of response, you also include "no response", then I would have to agree with you. As for cutting karmic roots in the way that you have described, I have read similar topics where they say that karma is the aspect of believing the little voice in your head that produces your thoughts and acting off of them. If you could sustain a consecutive span of ignoring the voice then you would be free of your karma, because that little voice functions from karma. I know it's not that simple because all beliefs and mental constructs are much more than just the little voice in the head, but I think the same concept would apply. Also, some times, when I'm meditating and get carried away, once I realize that I have been carried away, I will trace back the thoughts to the thought that started the whole chain reaction. It is an interesting technique. After tracing back to the cause, it seems to be easier to get back to the mindful place that I was before. The whole effect seems to be that we have thoughts that are watching other thoughts. So, perhaps thoughts have grasping built into them?

Hi Yabyum I agree. It is very hard to train one's self to quit grasping. It requires allot of mindfulness and allot of effort. There always seems to be a function of mind, that loves to look back and see if the mind is grasping. And, by doing that, you are grasping. There is much to be said for the concept that in the first moment when you turn your attention to a stimulus, you are not grasping. If you keep moving your attention every split second, the conceptual mind has no time to grasp and you can sort of artificially experience a prolonged state of not grasping. It also is a bit more powerful if you can move your attention every split second to scenes or sensations that you love. Yes, it's a reflex but one that we have to train in and overcome. Thanks for your input.