Tibetan_Ice

Jack, As Alan Wallace puts it, each persuasion has it's own version and interpretation of Shamtha, but the goal is essentially the same. However, I was discussing shamatha, and you brought in the jhana aspect of it. The Dzogchen Shamatha practice is different from Theravada. Different in understanding and terminology. I don't think you understand what you are saying. According to the "shamatha-jhanas" and "vispassana-jhanas", the first jhana is supposedly a shamatha jhana (along with the second, third and fourth material jhanas). If you are using mantra to gain accses to the first jhana, then you aren't in the first jhana. Or the second. Your self-assessment is erroneous. By the way, these variations and deviations, although popular today are not accepted by Alan Wallace. I've heard this on many occaisions, by Ajahn Brahm, Shaila Katherine and others. If you do not realize the nimittas, you do not gain access to the jhanas. Now, no doubt you can find the opposite point of view, which there seems to be prevalent in Buddhism, as is the downfall of Buddhism (too many people saying opposite things), but when accomplished meditators say that you need to have nimittas to get to the jhanas, I believe them. http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books/Ajahn_Brahm_The_Jhanas.htm You said: "If that were true: then being unconscious or in a dull state devoid of course thoughts would count as 'shamatha." There is no relation there. Unconsciousness or a dull state devoid of thoughts is missing the 'vividness' and 'Clarity' that is characteristic of shamatha. You argument is faulty. You said "Aren't you applying preliminary practices from Wallace's material? Why is this quote relevant? No one has actually mentioned Dzogchen practice in this thread." You just naturally assumed that shamatha is only Therevadan, thus it encompasses the jhanas etc. Alan Wallace's Dzogchen shamatha doesn't mention the jhanas at all, nor does he refer to different levels of jhanas. The last thing I will say is this: you said: "Have you read Daniel Ingram's "Mastering The Core Teachings Of The Buddha"? That might be able to clear up some things about how to practice vipassana (assuming that you're applying a 'noting' style of vipassana.) It also describes the insight of anatta pretty well." Well, yes I have read Daniel Ingram's "MTCTOTB". I found it overly intellectual and complex. Further, I was not impressed with two things: the practice of noting is very similar to mantra repetition and does not lead to stilling the mind. If your mind actively participates in hunting for thoughts in order to note them, that is not a practice of "letting be". In order to note thoughts you have to grasp at them. You have to hunt them down, move your attention all around, keep your mind active. Besides, as one progresses in shamatha, there are so many thoughts that arise and pass that it is literally impossible to note them all. So, I don't believe what he says. The other objection that I have to Daniel Ingram's writings, is that his teachings have a malicious thought-form of the "the dark night". If you spend time with his writings and give credence to his over-emphasis on the 'the dark night', it will soon envelope your karma too and become a reality. If the dark night were true, or worthy of so much note, then you'd find it in many other writings and teachings (Dzogchen included), but you do not.

Hi Spotless, I am not talking about only vocalized mantra. I am talking about vocalized (out-loud), subvocalized (no audible sound) but still using the location of the vocal chords to produce 'silent friction', super-subvocalized (relaxed throat but still using the linguistic function at the back left of the brain) , pure thought mantras (where you think the mantra) and intuited mantras (spontaneously manifested off the top of the head). All of these methods of creating a repeating thought-form in all consistencies of coarse to finer gradients start with the navel chakra, which is the main source of the wind. The source is closely connected the will. Without the enactment of the will which is started by intent and brought to fruition through the combination of intent, will, source/prana/chi, nothing happens. There is no movement. Now, you may say that there are three sources (dantiens/tan tiens etc), the navel, the heart and the brain (medulla). That is correct to a degree, but you will notice that when the head center collapses into the heart and the breathing stops, the navel center is still emitting its own energetic breathing. Therefore, I assume that the main controller for prana/chi/wind is the navel center. Try this experiment. Start to sound off a mantra. but just before it becomes a sound or a mentally repeated thought, STOP. See what part of the body was first to move. It is the lower tan tien, the navel center. If you repeat this a few times, you will see that just by holding the initial intent, the navel chakra emits a flow of energy/heat/prana/wind. If you do this when you've completely relaxed the body, you will see that the energy from the navel first flows downwards towards the root chakra. When you perform any form of the mantra, you are taking that energy and transforming it into various formations, various vibrations, various manifestations of form. You can't use form to reach the formless. Instead, you have to silence and still the winds. You can do that by dissolving the winds into the central channel. You can also do that by stilling the mind, by letting things be exactly as they are, dissolving on their own as is natural, until finally, all veils are dissolved revealing what lies beneath, has always existed and was in plain sight all along. Clear, vivid, infinite yet beyond these limiting concepts. Gee, I'm starting to sound like a guru or something.. TI

So, who said that shamatha is jhana? And how do you know that your state was jhana? You should not equate jhana with shamatha. They are two different words, two different concepts. The jhanas are mental states that you go through as the mind becomes more and more subtle and refined, even the formless jhanas. According to all the literature that I've read, mantra repetition could possibly take you to the first jhana, but must be abandoned to get any higher. Even Ajahn Char, who advocates "Buddho" mantra breath meditation during non-meditating waking hours, has instructions for breath meditation that do not include mantra repetition. But, here is the thing, you can still have thoughts all the way up to the eighth jhana. Having thoughts is a sign that the mind has not yet been stilled. So, technically, stilling the mind via shamatha takes you past the eighth jhana. The jhanas are finer and finer levels of consciousness. When the mind is stilled, the whole coarse mind collapses. You experience the awareness, the golden field of light, collapse and shrink back down into the heart. There is an accompanying swoon and mini-death-like experience. That has been my experience. And really, if you think about and had experience in it, you would have to ask yourself, if a prerequisite of shamatha is vitakka and vicarra, which is directed and sustained attention on one object, to the exclusion of all other objects, how can starting and stopping a mantra while trying to focus on what you are starting and stopping, be considered to be one continuous flow of attention? It is like running your own puppet show, and making pretend that you aren't actually making the puppet perform. I did mantra repetition for 4 1/2 years without success. It wasn't until I sustained my attention on the "I" (first letter of the visualized mantra) that I experienced an astonishing samadhi that I didn't know was even possible. Everything got real bright, there was only the subject, observation and the object, and then all three fused together, with a great amount of bliss and pure consciousness. That is the event which made me realize that mantra repetition does not produce samadhi. That is what made me investigate patanjali's limbs of yoga: Dharana and Dhyana, whose counterparts in Buddhism are Vitakka and vicara. Mantra repetition is not CONTINUAL SUSTAINED attention. Mantra repetition is not stability. You need the stabilization part; the continuous attention part. And, mantra repetition, the sounding off of sound, mental or otherwise, causes the throat chakra to activate, producing more and more dream forms and other manifestations. It's kind of like plugging the in-end (hose) of the vacuum cleaner to the out-end of the vacuum cleaner and just letting the dirt circulate. How is that 'stilling the mind'? You have to shut the vacuum cleaner off to still the mind, not stir up dirt and re-direct the flow.. TI There may be Dzogchen in Buddhism, but there is no Buddhism in Dzogchen. - Alan Wallace.

Hey Thankyou very much for your comments, everyone. I will have to order it now. I'm looking forward to watching it. Thanks again. TI

Hi D I hate to break this to you, but you cannot still the mind using a mantra. You cannot enter shamatha using a mantra. That is not what a mantra is for. Mantra repetition is for manifesting, cleansing, directing the prana or winds.. Look closely at what occurs during mantra repetition. When you first intend to sound the mantra, vocally or sub-vocally, the first place that activates is the lower tan tien (just below the navel and in). This is the chi that is going to empower the mantra. The chi comes up and then circulates in the throat chakra (which is also the chakra for dream activation). The chi (or prana) then flows to the areas of the body related to the particular sounds. Case in point. Most mantras end in "mmm" or 'ng'. The purpose is to bring the circuit of chi/prana to the brow, or as close to the third eye as possible. Aum.. Om.. Aung, Om Mani Padme Hung. Or, with other mantras, to bring the chi up and then back down, like Om Nama Shivaya. The last 'ya' takes the energy back down to the navel.. So what has all this directing of energy, filtering it through the throat chakra and moving around got to do with shamatha? Absolutely nothing! How are you going to make a pool of water calm and still by throwing in pebbles every few seconds? Let's see.. ok. repeat the mantra. ( the mind performs the task). Then it waits (or not) and thinks, "now I must perform the mantra again".. ( the mind performs the task). Observes that the mantra has faded, thinks again, " now I must perform the mantra again".. The act of initiating the mantra is using the mind. It is agitating the mind. How is the mud in the water bottle going to settle if you keep on shaking the jar? The reason why breath meditation is so popular and is an effective tool, is because breathing goes on regardless of whether or not you are consciously performing the breathing. As a matter of fact, it is very hard to watch the breath and not control it. Breathing, when left alone, does not require any thinking. Thus, the mind can go to great depths of stillness because the mind has nothing to do but let go and watch. Do you get these principles? Even watching the breath while reciting a mantra, although it may be a good training tool for beginners, is also not something that will still the mind. Both of the methods that you have mentioned in your practice are not shamatha practice. The second could be called a 'mindfulness practice', but it will never still the mind. This probably sounds like a broken record, but, if you are really interested in how to practice shamatha, I would get a hold of 'The Attention Revolution" by Alan Wallace. He explains everything quite well, all the steps, the phases of practice and more. It is quite an amazing book and will clear up some of the popular misconceptions that people have. Also, the technique of dissolving thoughts, which is also a shamatha practice, is described by Alan Wallace in his Dzogchen podcasts. It is called "taking the impure mind as the path". http://archive.org/details/IntroductionToDzogchenRetreatWithAlanWallace2012 This is also described by Tenzin Wangyal in the "Five Elements" book and other sources. For example: http://blog.gaiam.com/quotes/authors/tenzin-wangyal The technique of dissolving thoughts is also described in various Dozgchen books. Hopefully that helps. TI

Hi D, There are two basic types of Buddhist meditation. One is shamatha, which is stilling the mind. The other is vispassana, which is 'insight meditation'. It is observing some phenomenon in order to gain knowledge or insight. It is the knowledge that liberates. Watching the breath is one form of stilling the mind. Watching your thoughts is also a method of stilling/calming the mind. However, in your case, I think you are focusing on the content of the thought. In many books on watching thoughts, you do not focus on the content of the thought, you focus on its location, its origin, how long it lasts and you watch it dissolve. It dissolves because you aren't interested or putting energy into the content. So, a thought comes up. You notice if it is a strong thought or a weak one. You notice which location in the mind space it exists in. You see how long the thought is (most thoughts appear as streams or ribbons). You keep watching it, ignoring the content, and then the thought dissolves. You notice the space left behind when the thought dissolves. You keep doing that to all thoughts. Eventually what happens is that you stay in the center of your head (or point of attention) and the thoughts come up and dissolve. This process repeats over and over again, faster and faster, until you are bombarded by thousands of thoughts all appearing and dissolving as fast as they appear. Then, after much practice and remaining centered as the observer, the thoughts all disappear and the mind becomes calm. Shamatha. But if you focus on the content, especially for non-pleasant thoughts, you feed the thought, you keep it going. You are risking forming a chain of conceptual continuation and proliferation of the thought's topic. Hence, even bad emotions and effects will grow when you focus on the content and not the container.. In a way, thoughts are your friends. After all, you need something to practice on. The whole point is to be able to have thoughts come up, and not be bothered by them. To remain centered as the observer at all times, not reacting to the thoughts, realize the space/consciousness that the events of 'thoughts' is taking place in. Does that help? TI

Alwaysoff, It is statements like those that really make me wonder about you. You claim to be a Buddhist, yet you have never read any of the practice manuals for the jhanas? You do not have to be a Buddha to access previous lives. Perhaps you should read a Buddhist book called "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" or listen to a few podcasts by Ajahn Brahm. Then you would learn that through shamatha and by accessing some of the jhanas, it empowers you to remember previous lives. Or perhaps you should attend a seminar by Shamar Rinpoche (like I did). If you did, you would know that his meditation technique of breath meditation activates the memories of previous lives which are stored at the navel. I have accessed five previous lifetimes now and I am no Buddha. And then you claim that "highly reputed lamas don't remember their previous lives".. Well, then they couldn't have been very high, could they? Or perhaps you are just exercising your biased narrow opinions which have no foundation in Buddhist teachings. Instead of reading history books, why don't you study other common Buddhist practice manuals and teachings. You will find reincarnation, past life knowledge and even choosing future births in auspiscious positions and very common in Buddhism. Even Alan Wallace tells about a story about a modest Budhhist monk who was told to go to the US and subject himself to scientific examination. The monk was instructed to "tell all" by the Dalai Lama. So, that is what the monk did. When asked what he realized, the monk said "I know all of my previous lives". So, here you are, accusing everyone else of "grandiose false memories", putting down new-agers, when it is you, in fact, that is blurting out "grandiose false statements". Why am I not surprised. http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=29795&t=1 TI

Hi Hydro, How do you know it is a nimitta? The nimitta during breath meditation is a sign that the mind is very still. If the mind moves, the nimitta goes away. Projecting it onto the ground or moving your head slowly implies that you are thinking, volitionally controlling the body, thinking, directing musculature etc. These are require thoughts. And, if you mind is thinking, then your nimitta is not stable.If the mind is not still and stabilized, there is no nimitta. You are experiencing something else, it is not an anapanasati nimitta. A proper comparison is this. Imagine shining a flashlight at night into a pool of water that you are stirring with a stick. You are looking directly down at the beam on the surface of the pool of water. The light from the flashlight bounces around on the little waves, causing the light to move and shine every which way. Once you quit stirring the pool of water with the stick (focus your stabilized attention in perfect rest), the pool of water reflects the beam of light back at you. The nimitta is the beam of light. Although there are many nimittas, which technically is a mental representation of an element such as air, earth, water, fire etc, most Buddhists called the advanced sign that the mind is still, a "counterpart sign". For me, it is a very bright white light, brighter than the sun. When my mind is extremely still and my concentration is resting just in one area, at the mental representation of my understanding of the complete breathing cycle, the light appears. First, it breaks through for a split second. I get excited and it disappears. Then I relax and go back to stabilizing the attention on the visualized path of the breath. Then light appears again. It remains a little longer. I really have to work at it, not to get excited or be distracted, but sometimes, on occasion, the light remains. It looks like a sun. Then, on the rare occasion, I succeed and the light gets bigger and bigger and comes closer and then I'm immersed in it. Pure bliss/gone/dissolution. After, I find myself in either a huge open space, or some other state, or I bounce back out. The state is one of the jhanas. Breath meditation is not easy to do. You really have train yourself and learn how to flop the awareness onto the same location in the internal mind and let it rest there. It has nothing to do with the physical eyes. I didn't even know I could do that (flop or rest my attention) until after a few months of steady, consisitent practice. It seems contradictory, to rest the attention while maintaining one-pointed non-distracted stabilization, but through trial and error I learned how. I can't do it every time, but I know what I'm striving for. You can always tell when you succeed because it starts to feel real good, blissful and fills you with wonderment. Sometimes kundalini kicks in an spoils the fun.. So, the answer is, learn proper technique and get a hold of "The Attention Revolution" by Alan Wallace. If you don't understand some of the terminology, learn it. Ask here. There are many practitioners who know the terms. But Alan Wallace is pretty good at explaining things. Another good book is "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" by Ajahn Brahm. He also has his version of the nimittas. In my estimation, if the light is golden, you have learned to project the pineal essence out of the third eye.. Good luck. TI

Balance, Are you saying Jenny did charge you $12,000? TI

Hi, Well, I have to write again.. I have been doing breath meditations regularily, for 2 or 3 hours per day, every day for months now. The breath meditations progressed until, a few days ago during one meditation, I dissolved the body and found that there was a sphere of awareness, much the same 'feeling' as the substance that emerges during my satori moments, which inhabits the body. It is like the inner layer of the body is a field of clear aware light that is aware, not in a point or center, but as a whole. The whole field is aware, each of its own things, and as one thing (if that makes sense). It reminds me of Nisargadatta's "focus on the I AM". On the day following that meditation, the aware field did not come back.. I was kind of sad. Over the weekend, I listened to Alan Wallace's Dzogchen broadcast, #29 over again. I have been listening and performing the meditations in his 30 podcast Dzogchen retreat for the second time. In #29, he reveals the higher practice of shifting one's attention without object, directly above the head, then to the right, then, to the left and finally he says to visualize that your centre of attention in the head takes an imaginary elevator downwards to the heart and remains there! I was flabergasted that this is actually one of the highest Dzogchen practices, as taught by Padmasambhava in his book called "Natural Libertaion". I haven't verified that yet, but the whole idea that one finally ends up in the heart was amazing to me. The heart is magical. It really is. Today, during my breaks at work, I spent some time doing sambhavi, and really sucking in from the forehead, simulating sleep. I had to reassure myself that I hadn't lost the kundalini effects this practice produce. Yup.. still there.. Within a few seconds, I saw the layers of consciousness pass by, lights, visions etc as one would while falling asleep, and the root started acting up again with ecstatic bliss.. Same old, same old.. When I came home from work, I noticed that I had an intuition that a book had arrived. I was looking forward to receiving the book about the Third Eye from Del Pe, which is being delivered from India so I thought that that was that book. When I got to the mail box, there was a very small parcel.. Hmmm.. The Del Pe book was 475 pages so it couldn't be that one. When I got inside the house and cut the parcel open, it revealed that the book was "The Mirror" by Namkhai Norbu! I had ordered it a while back. Now, I really like Namkhai Norbu. When I first learned of him he visited me astrally and gave me some kind of transmission. The effect from that experience was that this golden aware light in head, close to the "I" grew over the span of a couple days. Lack of sleep and the feeling of pure awareness expanding were the characteristics.. N Norbu has 'visited' a couple times since then. Every now and then I will see him, smiling at me (well not quite smiling, more like 'wising' at me) in the astral. He is quite adept to be visiting me so much. I am grateful. Anyway, It was just before my 'home-from-work' meditation and I decided to read just a bit of "The Mirror". It was a very small book and it looked interesting. The gist of the book is that one must remain in presence and awareness, not just during meditation, but 24 hours a day. One must make an effort, once a meditator learns how to access the 'presence and awareness' to remain in there during all the activities of the day: walking, eating, working.. etc.. It seemed like very good advice to me. To remain in presence and awareness. I had read for about 40 minutes and finished the main part of the book. I was a little late for my pre-supper meditation.. No big deal. I sat in my meditation area and set my timer for 45 minutes instead of 1 hour because I was a little off schedule. I wondered what it meant to sit in 'presence and awareness'. So, I closed my eyes and looked straight ahead. Hands on thighs, open and palms up. Lower back resting on the wall. No kechari or anything fancy. I first focused on 'presence' which immediately brought my attention downwards towards the energetic sphere of the body. Then I focused on 'awareness' and tried to be aware of everything at the same time, mostly with the eyes. Vivid awareness. I tried to hold the combination of presence (which morphed into a feeling of being centered in the heart) and awareness. As instructed in the book, if thoughts were to come up, you simply ignore them or dissolve them away. Thoughts came up, and I noticed that they dissolved away very quickly. I maintained my focus of the combination of presence and awareness. Images came up, the pulsing of the etheric body matching the breath, visions, thoughts etc and I maintained my focus through the rough stuff. It was almost easy. I just kept turning my attention downwards towards the body and cranked up the attention, interest, awareness of all senses in order to catch every detail, every sound, every thump and bump that living in a shared residence produces. Gradually, after most of the winds settled down, I discovered that I was no longer a point of consciousness or center of attention in the head. I had become a sort of bubble or round sphere of awareness, with the center in the general area of where the heart should have been. Not a point, but a sphere of awareness.. Then, the magic started happening. I would see a scene, but it was no longer a scene like looking through the third eye. The scene was on the outside of bubble, surrounding the whole bubble. It was like I had travelled to and had become immersed in another land, one with green leafy vegetation and strange looking plants. Again, I focused on presence and awareness because I thought it was just a more elaborate vision, and again I was immersed in another landscape. It was like I was in a bubble and was travelling to other planes, or dimensions or planets. It was amazing! I noticed that while this was going on, my mind was relaying thoughts and at first I ignored them and dissolved them.. They would disappear into a fine mist. Then, I realized that I could actually think and still be in the bubble and be immersed in a landscape, all at the same time. But, for fear of losing the experience, I maintained a focus on the presence and the awareness as the primary interest. I experienced about 10 or 12 immersions into places I had never seen before.. Next I also noticed that I could see the physical world even though my eyes were closed, the room where I was meditating in, the whole house, like it was transparent, as a sort of background to the landscapes I was seeing. I was seeing everything at once, like layers of visible transparency.. Then I noticed that I felt like I could just float off in the bubble, and float around the room if I wanted to. I didn't do it because I thought that that was enough. Then my mind started getting afraid and wishing the whole experience was over because it was an experience that it was not used to, had never experienced before and wanted time to analyze and digest this new phenomenon. I kept at it, hoping to hear the 45 minute bells from my "Insight Timer". I noticed that there was no body sensation, that I was a very light sphere of aware luminescence. It felt superb. I was a ball of presence and awareness! I wondered if I could somehow transport myself, body included, to other locations in the world. The thought of the merkaba came to mind. I wondered if this was all the magic of the heart, where the real power lies. Then the timer bells went off. YAY!!! Post meditative digestion by the conceptual mind. One of my favorites activities.. I've been so happy since that meditation. I'm bouncing around as I walk, with a big smile on my face. I feel like I've discovered a key, a hidden secret. The key is presence, just like Eckhart Tolle talks about, and awareness. Not pointed awareness like a concentrative laser, but relaxed mind awareness with peripheral attention, not focusing on any point except downwards towards the body for the presence part. And, being aware of 360 degrees around with high attention and interest at the same time. Presence and awareness.. Space and Light. Hmmm.. Presence.. perhaps it is the dharmakaya. Or primordial consciousness? Awareness? The luminescence of awareness? The Sambhogakaya? The Heart? WOW! Magical. TI

Please take your off topic comments to another post.

Hi Anderson Thank you for your reply. I do recall reading in several places, "the Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" is one, where it says that there is no importance to having the visions other than the fact that we dissolve the visions. But, first, before you can dissolve the visions, you must have the visions to dissolve. And, Yes. It is important, as mentioned in Bon, that we learn to dissolve thoughts and visions, and then the 'watcher' and realize that everything is just a display of the five lights (pure and impure). After a bit of research I have discovered that "the Cycle of Day and Night" by C.N. Norbu, is supposed to have instructions from the Longde in it, and I did receive that in the mail a few days ago. I am looking forward to reading it. I did notice that during that meditation that I described in this post, that the normal thoughts were dissolving on their own, however, instead of dissolving the visions like I normally do or have done in the past, I grasped at them. I like exploring and learning. I've always wanted to know how to transport the body to different locations, and also to bring a group of people along with me. I read about a guru (many years ago) who transported a group of people from a small village in India to a large city to go shopping for a day, and then back afterwards. Somehow that story stuck with me all these years. I was reading in the book called "The Ninth Karmapa's Ocean of Definitive Meaning" by Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche. In it he says that one must also learn how to dissolve the kleshas. He says that dissolving a klesha one time does not liberate. One must repeatedly dissolve the kleshas. In this way one will understand that the kleshas are empty, have no real substance, and that that aspect is liberating. I consider that a valuable thing to know. Imagine that, instead of dwelling in anger, or any of the baser emotions for extended periods of time, one could simply dissolve them and regain composure.. The end of one form of suffering on a small scale.. I have dissolved a few kleshas so far. What I have found is that once dissolved, they produce a great amount of bliss and energy/heat right after the dissolution. Alan Wallace's Dzogchen retreat podcasts contains instructions on watching thoughts and watching them dissolve. It is interesting that they do dissolve on their own when one looks directly at them and does not grasp at them (let the conceptual mind continue on the referent content.. ) You sound like you are successful in realizing the natural state and staying there. Did you ever receive a transmission in person from anyone? What kind of pointing out instructions did you receive? TI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Illu_pituitary_pineal_glands.jpg

Hi, I found this youtube video about how to decalcify the pineal gland from "Ma Nithya Sudevi". She thinks the pineal gland is located between the eyebrows! She is calling the pineal gland the anja chakra.. TI

Hi CC, What is the costing breakdown? Is it $5000 for the treatments, $7000 for plane tickets and accomodations? What did Sifu Jenny Lamb quote you just for the treatment? TI

Alwaysoff, why don't you go pollute and derail someone else's thread?

Hi SotS I know you will get it. The key to breath meditation is sustaining effort at first, along with relaxation. You have to make a real effort to keep the attention on the breath. You have to 'up' your attention and vividness. It helps to achieve the stability. Also, focus on the knowing of the breath, not the physical sensations so much. TI

Hi Jason, The difference between this experience and astral travel is that during astral travel, there is always the observer in the background. In this case, it is the observer in the background that becomes the center.. I think it may have to do with being first centered in presence in the heart.. TI

Hi Spotless, What a nice comment. I appreciate it. TI

Hi Gerard, Why would I ignore the experience? I've gained insight with that experience. Further, once you achieve a certain state, it is often easier to get back into it by focusing on the state. Once having achieved jhanas, many teachers say you can go directly back into them. Further, I want to remember how to get back there, what I did, and as remember as much as possible to maintain a learning experience. Ignoring the experience is not the kind of thing that I would do or recommend to anyone. It reminds me of the bad advice you get at AYP, the idea that it's all scenery. What a misnomer. Blessings.. TI

Er... I can think of a number of reasons to wear clothing.. -Digits freeze and fall off in -30 degree weather in winter in this country -We share most things, but butt bugs shouldn't be one of them (on chairs, couches, bus seats..) -Constantly seeing the naked female form would probably result in a diminishing of the sex drive (might solve the over -population problem though..) -Constantly seeing the naked female form would probably result in an increase of the sex drive (might not solve the over -population problem now that I think about it..) -You would have no place to put your keys or wallet (no place that is sanitary, anyway) -sunburn, windburn, mosquitos, hail, rose bushes -lack of status through fashion could be unbarable to some..(pun intended) -You could no longer tell the difference between a police officer or a priest. -You'd really have to watch where you stepped on a busy sidewalk (gum, doggy doodoo, broken glass...) But, think of the money you'd save not having to wash clothes anymore.. Then again.. TI

Hi Alwaysoff (or should I say "Central Channel")? The Dalai Lama never banned Tsongkhapa. You misinterpreted. You seem to do that allot. Karmamudra is not the same as kagyu. One is a practice and one is a lineage. They are related, however. Quit making shit up. I do not have to have a label like "buddhist" in order to discuss topics. Unlike you, I do not need a false elitist title to hang on to. I rely on reasoning, knowledge, assessment and evaluation. If you can't stick to the topic without attacking one's qualifications (which is nonsensical anyway because truth is where you find it), that is your problem. At least I don't proclaim myself to be on the same level as the Dalai Lama, nor do I twist the Dalai Lama's actions and represent him as a troll (as you have done in other threads). At least I don't publicly deny the existence or general history of Jesus, as you have done. At least I don't push aside Shakyamuni Buddha as irrelevant. At least I don't put all my belief and acceptance into historical writings, most of which are not even accurate. Tell, me.. why did you create another account on DharmaWheel called "Central Channel"? Did you get too embarassed when they laughed at you and felt that you had to come back in disguise and get even? Not very forthright. Again, I find that whenever I make a point and you attack me personally, I take it to mean that there must be something true in what I said. After all, why would not reply to the topic rather than try to attack me personally and try to discredit my arguments based on "whether or not I am a Buddhist"? Actually, you bore me to death. You have no credibility. I can get the same stale stories and fictitious renditations of 'history' that you post by picking up any dusty history book. Don't you ever listen to the Spiritual masters that say that the past is gone? How will any intellectual understanding (be it partially accurate) help you in your quest for enlightment? Oh, I forgot, you've already declared yourself as someone who 'knows' in another thread. Arrogant wanna be? Don't you work? Don't you have a real job? Do you spend all your time on the forums, attacking the Hindus, aggrevating people, looking down at what others have written when your own understanding and command of the English language and etiquette of proper communication is so lacking? What do you think about when you meditate? All this negative karma that you create is got to hard to burn off, especially for someone who doesn't even understand the mechanics of tummo. I'll give you some advice. People don't judge you by what you say. They judge you by what you do. TI

1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 stop! Seven won't comply

Hi Alwaysoff Well, someone disagrees with you.. And then you say: In general terms, yes, tummo is a form of meditation. And yes, it is contrived and conceptual. All practices are contrived and conceptual including tummo, Vajrayana generation stage and completion stage, even the preliminary practices of thogal and trecko. The only practice that isn't contrived and not conceptual is the pure practice, the pinnacle of Dzogchen. By definition, something that is not contrived cannot be created nor controlled by the conceptual mind. If it is a practice, it is contrived. If it is contrived, it is conceptual. So, you can call such and such a nonconceptual practice, and unless it is the pure pinnacle of Dzogchen, it is still a conceptually contrived practice. TI

Hi I have had some interesting realizations. I have had some experiences with the 'clear light' that comes from the heart and manifests out of the eyes. I have written about these episodes, which I was calling 'satori moments' in various threads. The last post was here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/27071-difference-between-being-in-pure-land-and-clear-light/?p=413974 The jist of it is that, there is a channel which goes from the heart to the eyes. It is called the Kati crystal channel. If you can activate this channel by being relaxed and loving, a phenomenon occurs which can be described as "a waterous radiantly clear liquid-like substance comes out of your eyes and projects itself into the viewable scenery." The phenomenon is characterised by tremendous Bliss, Joy, Peace, the feeling that you are everything and a particular silence of the conceptual mind. So far, nobody has been able to confirm this experience. This is not a 3D visual effect; the world is seen as it appears, not holographic. The world (the scene you are viewing) appears normally except is much brighter, radiant, glistening. The feeling (to me) is like you are God looking into the eyes of God. Everything is love or one or the same taste. Yesterday, I was reading a book called "A Clear Mirror" - Traktung Dudjom Lingpa and I came across this quote: Hmmm! Perhaps my experiences are realizations of 'emptiness's true nature'. ! Dudjom Lingpa's meditation instructions are very similar to the types of practices that I have been doing.. The text that leads into the reference of the kati channel is here: A few days ago, after posting about the 'satori moments' I started contemplating the clear waterous substance that emits from the eyes as bliss, peace, joy, love, brilliant radiance.. I focused on remembering the phenomenon, examining it, remembering each aspect. Recalling the experiences was somehow setting it off again. And, it was right before my regular meditation time, so I went to meditate for an hour. I sat in my usual posture and started with my dedications/prayers. The bells from my "Insight Timer" went off, indicating the start of the hour long session. There were great streams of love and tingles coming from my heart. I could not 'meditate'. I decided to just let it go and sit. (I was going to do 1 hour of breath meditation). As the waves of tingles radiated out from the heart, I noticed that the space had opened up inside. This is the typical space that opens when the senses shut off. It is the space in which one can see the thoughts, visions, colors, lights, chakras.. etc.. However, this time I noticed that the conceptual mind was "behind" again, which was the same positioning of the conceptual mind during the satori moments. I just let it be. The vibrations radiating upwards from the heart grew more intense. There were subtle films or wisps of light moving all about in front of the conceptual mind. I just let it be and watched. Then, all of a sudden, a very clear face appeared in the front of the space, beyond the front of the brow. It was an image of Ramana. Ok. It sure seemed bright. The image did not go away. And then it moved! And then I felt this overwhelming love coming out of it. Could it be? Ramana? His hair was white. My conceptual mind kicked in and starting throwing up all these thoughts.. I was once again plummeting into the war of mind-games.. I fought off the con-mind as best I could and refocused on Ramana. There was one thought that got through.. "What if it wasn't Ramana? " So, I binded the image of Ramana in the name of Jesus Christ and watched. The image of Ramana did not disappear. What happened was very funny. Another vision of Jesus appeared behind Ramana! Now I was looking at Jesus and Ramana. Then, something even stranger happened. The image of Ramana became a full person standing tall, then that image became a full image of Jesus standing tall, and then that image became another outline of another body (who I thought may have been Gandhi) and then another image... That was too much for my conceptual mind to handle.. Thoughts started cascading out.. I re-arranged my orientation, took a deep breath and went back into meditation. There was Ramana again. This time, he was sitting on a wooden bench in what seemed to be a scene from India. There were not many plants, the sky was very blue and there was a small structure in the background that looked like a clay-walled hut. Then Ramana said to me "Come and sit with me". !! By this point I realized that perhaps this was the real thing. I could see the whole scene as if looking through a telescope. I had no idea what I should do. I went and sat with him. It was like being in a dream. He was wearing nothing but a large white cloth around his bottom. I could not think of anything to say! I just sat there, feeling the love and understanding. Then I thought of something.. I had always had dreams that I had lived in India before this present life. I had visions of steam locomotives, and this one strange three-story-building with no center. The building had a main floor and three surrounding balconies. So, I asked Ramana if I had lived there before. At once, I got more visions of India, the colors, the locomotives, the earthen buildings.. Lots of scenery. It appears that I have in fact been in Ramana's presence before.. Back on the meditation seat, I pulled out and started crying. I had no idea. Ramana! King of the heart! It took a few days to get over the initial shock of that experience. The mind must justify by thinking that time and space are only concepts and that the great gurus transcend these phenomenon quite easily. Lots to think about. For the last two days, I have uncovered some new insights. I'm trying to stay away from heart meditations because my conceptual mind is rebelling too much.. However, for some reason, I now realise how to enter the space of the mind quite easily. What you do is this: Focus on the little space just below and inside from the navel. Say the mantra "O" silently (internally) and keep it going.. Just "O".. one long "OOOOOOOO".. not "ou" as in 'you', just one long "O" as in 'bow'. AUM has no begining or end.. Just one long "O". What this does is it causes the lower dantien, the place belowe the navel to activate. It is the center of will. It is what you use when you "really try hard". It is what is starting and stopping the breathing too. It also gives off heat if you let it. Anyway, just keep the "O" going with no breaks in it, and then do breath meditation on the place just below the navel. Watch each breath, while visually/mentally looking at the point below the navel. There is a white light there, which helps you to focus. Within a few minutes of doing that, you will see that the space inside your body really opens up. It opens up like your heart opens up, in a vacuous space. Then, you will see visions very easily, but don't look at them. Keep looking at the point where the "O" is coming out of. Keep watching the motion of the lower abdomen, moving with each inhale and exhale. Listen to the "O". Focus on the breath and don't interfere with the breathing. You will start to notice that with each breath, a sort of membrane expands and contracts around the body, from inside the space. That is a good sign. You are seeing from inside the space. After a while, the dreams/visions come quite easily. It is easy because the "O" is also activating the throat chakra, which is the source of the dream world. You can play about in this meditation.. explore, experience the space. I'm seeing some wonderful colors, brilliant displays of patterns and structures, visions and things I've never seen before.. right at the place below the navel.. I have been doing this meditation for two days now, as my regular practice.. During the last meditation, my whole coarse consiousness collapsed, I swooned and almost successfully passed into the beyond. I failed again, but I'll keep trying. It is so hard just to let go. TI