Tibetan_Ice

Time flies like an arrow Fruit flies like a banana

Hi Rainbowvein I first learned about that technique from one of Alan Wallace's books. I think it is "Mind in the Balance". In it he referred to Franklin Merrell-Wolff's book called "Experience and Philosophy". In that book Franklin talks about returning to the source by going backwards, or turning the attention around. It makes sense to me. If we create the world or manifest it from the indestructible drop in the heart, that means that everything is an outward flow. To return to the source, you have to swim against the current. It is a popular method in Hinduism, the 'neti, neti, neti' - not that, not that, not that. But it is not an intellectual game. It is a practice. That's what I believe everyone seems to miss about 'neti, neti'. Turn it into a meditative practice. It is also what I believe that Nisargadatta is saying when he continually repeats "focus on the feeling the "I AM". It will take you there and then go beyond that. The feeling of "I AM" is the bliss of existence for the small light or son light. When you focus on it with determination and sustained attention/absorption, it will eventually dissolve, revealing the 'mother light'. Most all meditations except for the "awareness of awareness" types of meditation are always focusing on the object, whether it be a mantra, the breath, a vision, a deity.. All of these are outer manifestations of forms. After a while, one realizes that there is a subject watching. It makes sense to me to learn more about the subject. It is much harder because the focusing on forms is like swimming with the current, swimming downstream in the river. That's all we've ever done all our lives, swimming with the current. To get back to the source, you have to swim against the current. What I do for the meditation is this: Sit in a meditative posture and then watch. Whatever you see, feel, think, or hear, turn your attention around and receed into the subject that is watching. When you think you are there, notice what you are aware of, then notice that something is aware of that something. So, again, you turn your attention around or receed back into the subject. As you progress, you find that you are continually aware of something. But, it is not that, not that, not that. So you keep turning your attention around. Gradually what happens is, after continually letting go, you pass through the layers of the etheric, astral, mental and causal bodies and end up closer to the source. Along the way, you experience many of the spiritual experiences that one might get during normal types of meditations.. visions, heat, sounds, bliss, kundalini, insomnia, watching yourself sleep, overabundance of energy.. etc. As you get closer and closer to the source, you start to see golden light, and a golden egg. Then, one time, you break into the egg! In new age terms, you've broken through the causal plane on the way to the source. Now, you may ask, if you keep reversing your point of view to become the subject instead of the object, how is that taking you closer and closer to the source? How can you be inside the golden egg, when you are on the outside looking in? The answer is, the mind is like a mirror. Whatever you see on the outside, is actually on the inside. To get closer to something in a mirror, you don't get closer to the mirror, instead, you back away and receed away from the mirror. You are actually inside the egg looking at your reflection which looks like a golden egg. And then, you must clear and clean your mirror before you can really see a clear vivid reflection. Everything gets in the way, thoughts, feelings, sensations.. I have traced thoughts and the "I AM" back down to the heart. It is kind of deceiving because it feels and seems like 'you' are actually somewhere in your head, in your mind. But that is a holographic trick of the psychic network. The real subject is in the heart, using the periscope and other nadis to manifest the body, mind, world and universe. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Blessings.. TI

Hi, I came across this web page the other day. It is a comparison of the types of siddhis or powers achieved by Buddhists and Hindus. Is there any truth to the idea that Buddhism is superior to Hinduism because the achievements are greater? Is Yogi C. M. Chen authentic? He seems to have advanced knowledge of many things.. He is claiming that Brahma was converted by Buddha... http://www.yogichen.org/cw/cw28/bk029.html Comments? TI

Hi Spotless, Thank you for posting all that. That is interesting. I was going to ask you... If you have the ability to tune into people, what type of impressions do you get from Alan Wallace when you tune into him? TI

Maybe that is your problem. You have difficulty reading and understanding what you are reading. The second batch of quotes were not generated by using a search engine. They are all from hard copy books which I own and have read and then purchased on Kindle to save me some typing. Each one of those quotes shows the reference to the source in them. You should have seen them if you had bothered to read them. They are from very authoritative figures in the Dzogchen and Mahamudra lines. Further, I never said that sambhogakaya is the same thing as clear light. My posts were exemplifying that the sambhogakaya is luminous. The Sambhogakaya is luminous. Physical light. The Sambhogakaya is the rainbow body. It eminates from the clear light. It can be seen. Adepts can manifest the rainbow body for normal people to see. Light. In a way I am very greatful that you still don't get it. Because, I was searching some more on 'clear light' and I came across this passage from Tenzin Wangyal: I've bolded the relevant part. This is the kati heart channel. In my experience, the clear light that rises from the heart and out of the eyes is visible. And, you can even follow it back to the heart. Actually, read this: So here, Tenzin is saying in no uncertain terms that the Sambhogakaya is rigpa. "The Sambhogakaya is the clear, spontaneous presence of rigpa in the empty, natural state of the mind" Is not the rigpa also called "clear light"? Tenzin also says "The appearance of images (for example, during dark retreat) due to the relationship of body and mind is the Sambhogakaya," So there you have it. Tenzin is also saying that sambhogakaya causes images. Images are visible and luminous. If a = b and b = c, then a = c. This is common logic. You know, I have presented oodles of information from various sources concerning this subject and the most you have done is say that that is not what your authority figures and teachers have told you. I think it is only fair that you now present what your authority figures and teachers have told you, what sambhogakaya and clear light are. I sure hope you don't tell me that the luminosity is just a metaphor. I have quoted various sources that say that the sambhogakaya, when manifest, is not only luminous and shiny but it is the rainbow body. It can actually be seen by other normal people. TI

Hi Rainbowvein, I'll just jump in here. You will find the golden light the closer you get to the center of the feeling of you. It is more in the center of the head if your normal consciousness has not collapsed down into the heart. Also, when you gain access to the finer and finer levels of subtle mind, it is very hard to distinguish between watching and knowing. The knowing is luminous on a very subtle level. The watching is knowing. If you ever do a meditation where you try to continually turn your attention 180 degrees around in order to become aware of the 'you' that is watching or observing, and you persist, you will pass through a state that is consistent and easily recognizable as the golden light. TI

Hi, I was reading Franklin Merrell-Wolff's book called "Experience and Philosophy". I came to a part where he was discussing the disavantages of intellectual evolution, the part where he says this: Somehow, those words struck home. I lifted my head for a second, and focused on the 'extreme simplicity' of perception, the area without conceptual thought. I focused my eyes straight ahead and tried to sense the extremely simple in my awareness, in the space directly before my sight. Suddenly, a blob of what I would describe as clear waterous vapour appeared in my visual field. It was luminous, clear, like water and filled with love, joy, bliss and peace. It was about 3 feet wide, elongated horizontally and it felt like there was a divine presence in it, something alive. The phenomenon lasted about 20 seconds.. I resumed my reading, but gradually put the book down and started to ponder what had just happened. The blob of clear water that had presented itself to me, full of bliss, love, joy and peace was not a vision, nor was it an imagination. I focused on what I had done to cause this appearance. What I had done is become very simple in my sight and mind. Just easily looking through the eyes, but before the eyes see anything or the mind has time to grasp at it. And sure enough it appeared again, and then again. For the evening's meditation I decided to re-enact the same state of simple mind. It was very easy to do and the clear water of bliss, joy, love and peace appeared to me once again. It had a glorious presence. The effect that it produced on the body was like a shower of goose bumps, tingles and extremely blissful energy flows. I thought I had finally found God. I thought, it is true. God is right before your eyes, all of the time, every place, everywhere. I was enjoying myself immensely. My mind kept trying to produce contrary thoughts and speculative conceptualizations but I told it to stop, to go away. I just wanted to bathe in the presence. Then, this voice came out of my head and it asked "May I drink from the River of Life?". The clear water responded and said "Yes". After that, the clear water merged with my body and I felt currents of energy going up and down my spine, from the coccyx to the top of the head. Both ways, up and down. It was so blissful I could harldy contain myself. My whole body was a field of divine love and nourishment. This effect lasted for a few minutes after which time I was so overjoyed and greatful. My mind kept resonating "My search is over. I've finally found it. I've found God. He was always there!" When the sensations of the energy coursing up and down my spine finally ceased, I noticed a very peculiar sensation in the center of the chest around the heart chakra. It was cool! It felt like I had a cool peaceful ball of liquid ice about 4 inches in diameter in the center of my chest. Cool, refreshing, scintilating. I've never felt that before. What I am curious about is this. Is this blob of clear waterous vapour, filled with love, bliss, joy and peace called the "meaning clear light" in Buddism? Any Buddhist experts with a similar experience out there? TI

Hi Rainbowvein, You know, I have thought about that many times recently. I wonder what would happen if the liquid light was projected at someone. Would it blow them out of the water with love and bliss? Is that what some authentic gurus can do? The only problem is that I haven't yet figured out how to activate it at will. When the experience first occured, it was post-meditative and would occur when I was 'loving something'. But after a while, it just occured on its own a couple times. Once, when I was trying to be very 'simple', and twice in the shower. I know it is related to the heart and activating the heart. I have been practising 'trying to love' things to see if can get more control of it. During meditation, when the heart activates, like when I feel that I've truly helped someone else, the meditation is quite similar to the liquid light experience in the sense that the conceptual mind is 'behind', the outer world (manifestations of forms) are in front, and the phenomenal experience is in the middle. I keep thinking about Nisargadatta, and his directive to "focus on the feeling of "I AM"" , because, the experience has a signature that you feel like you are everything. I think that is the "I AM". I am everything. Or, everything is me. I believe it comes from the sincere heart. TI

Found another reference to "liquid light in the heart".. link: http://transmissiononline.org/issue/awareness/article/meditation-as-bodhicitta-15-v1 So, the bodhichitta is the liquid-like light, that comes out of your eyes through the secret kati channel, when you are relaxed and loving and that channel opens.. !!

-Nisargadatta

Gee, I went to allot of trouble to look up sambhogakaya and clear light in all those books, and they are saying basically the same thing. You must have missed that. Instead, you prefer to ankle bite. See: http://thetaobums.com/topic/27366-dzogchen-teachings/?p=417913 You seem to have a dependancy on teachers or authority figures.. Perhaps you also missed the post about Master Nan Huai Chin letter, wherein he said: http://thetaobums.com/topic/26671-master-nan-huai-chin-dead-at-94/?p=417647

Hi Spotless, In another post you said that you once helped a man pass over to the other side by burning the dark energy left by a poor relationship between the man and his daughter "Patricia". You said you broke the straw and burnt it (or something like that). What I was going to ask is this. What effect do you think that doing that had on your karma? Perhaps the man wished to be free of the karma, and perhaps you asked him permission to resolve this issue, but what about Patricia? Did you ask her for permission to take on her karma? Do you think that you might have seriously altered their future lives or realizations by doing what you did? There are so many writings that I've read, like from Nisaragadatta, who think that healing someone is interfering with their karma. And, I'm at a loss. I really want to heal everyone but at the same time, perhaps the suffering is actually helping them to let go. Perhaps if they don't bear the brunt of the their karma, it only comes back twice as strong in the next life? Any opinions on this? I'm sure every healer has the same thoughts.. TI

Hi K Thank you for typing all of that. It is interesting. It reminds me of what Gurudeva said about the effects of 'listening to the sounds of ida and pingala': The book called "Merging with Shiva" is now available as a free download!! http://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/merging-with-siva I have spent many years with lost interest for the outside world.. It is kind of like sleepwalking or feeling drugged. The days kind of float by and nothing really affects you too greatly.. Hmmm... TI

NOT WORTH THE EFFORT

Wrong again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambhogak%C4%81ya http://www.kagyu.org/kagyulineage/buddhism/cul/cul02.php And here is more from Tenzin Wangyal: http://www.surajamrita.com/bon/buddhahood.html

The clear light, sambhogakaya, which is inseperable from emptiness is that from which the five lights arise. Therefore, all visions arise from the dharmakaya and the sambhogakaya. Therefore, all visions have the intrinsic property of clear light. Fine, you quoted Tenzin's strict interpretation of clear light on the other thread and it is a good one. But it didn't explain the "Clear Light of Bliss" or the "Clear LIght of Death" or the "Clear Light of Dreaming", did it? Don't go accusing me of making false claims when it is you who does not understand the mechanism or the dependancies..

Hi A sun that never sets How sad to percieve the sharing of experiences from the point of view of ego, that it's sole purpose is either to boost one's self up or attain some kind of status. Or that humility and secrecy are somehow subduing the ego. All things are impermanent and prisons in their own right. Not only the golden chains and hot sports cars, but accomplishments and experiences as well. You and I are impermanent. We all are. There are some of us who share our experiences for the benefit of others. It is a good thing, to help others. There are some of us who share experiences to learn more about the practices, what areas to focus on, which to relinquish. In 100 years, you and I will both be dead and forgotten. How many accomplished masters, carrying their secrets to the grave, suddenly realize that their secrecy or humility has benefitted nobody but themselves? And then they write a book about it, or ask someone to write one for them. How can you assess the competency of your guru if they tell you that everything that they teach you is to remain secret? If the guru has bound you to secrecy and has told you that the astral planes are as high as you can get and you never compared notes, how will you know that you were deceived? If a teaching relies on it's secrecy to retain its potency, then there is no substantial truth in the teaching. If your own humility is binding you, then you are a prisoner. If you view discussing practices, spiritual techniques, psychic architecture as only bragging and posturing and therfore refrain from it, you are missing out on helping others and also refining your own understanding. Buddha said, don't accept his word for anything. Examine, assess, criticize and discover the truth for yourself. One way you do this is by comparing notes with others. Buddha did not say, don't tell anyone about your accomplishments, keep it secret and carry it to your grave. Did he? I'm sure he didn't say to openly display abilities, like a circus, but he might have said: in the proper time and place, abilities are usefull and serve as a help for serious students. He might have said to compare notes, share what you have learned and experienced in hopes of getting a better understanding and a deeper realization. Why do you think that there are so many books about Buddhism out there about rainbow bodies, writing in stone, leaving footprints in rock, milking pictures of cows producing milk, accomplishments, miracles, siddhis etc? They aren't bragging. They are showing us that the reality that most of us believe in is not the real thing. It has nothing to do with ego, humility, self agrandizement or posturing. To perceive it that way is to view it through the green-colored-glasses. Is it better to hide your experiences and secrets from the world and take them to your grave, or to try to foster an atmosphere of learning, education and try to benefit all sentient beings? After all, it may be this world that your next life will be in. If nobody shared their spiritual insights and knowledge, the future might look pretty glum. Besides, here is the west, people think you are an idiot if you openly share your experiences and insights, instead of selling them, like everybody else does. LOL The heart knows no secrecy and it betrays the conceptual mind and intellectual knowledge the first chance it gets. Just thought I'd give you the other point-of-view. TI

Hi K That is interesting. I also found another book by the same name, by the same author Pe Del for $32.75. This one was published in 2012. The expensive one was published in 2005.. So, I ordered the more recent one. (apparently the last copy in stock). http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Dangers-Meditation-Yoga-Del/dp/8179925668/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1 I was kind of looking forward to reading about the anti-spacey recipe part.. I wonder who Pe Del is.. Hmmm. Found him. He has a very compressed energy.. 400 year old person? Tummo, fire in the belly.. Hmmm.. He has a book on the Third Eye. Had to order it from India! http://www.masterdelpe.com/mdp/thirdeye.html Interesting.. TI

Hi DMattWads I never said to use black on the root. I said to put the black crystals below the feet to ground the energies. If you are doing a full body layout lying down, you put the black crystal(s) 3 or four inches from the bottoms of your feet. Black is used for grounding and also protection. Most new age writings say that the root is red, but the root is at the perineum, not the bottom of the feet. Small point, but I thought I'd mention it. You sound like you have experience with cyrstals. Have you ever tried moldavite? TI

Hi K I was checking out the book you mentioned. Is it this one? For over $500.00 ? !! http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Dangers-Meditation-And-Yoga/dp/0971767637 And yes, I agree. One should first develop the third eye (brow chakra). And the proper method to awaken kundalini is by first opening the crown, bringing the light down and then opening the root. That way, Shiva is already visible and Kundalini will know where to go. (metaphorically speaking). If you develop the bottom three chakras first, which deal more with the 'human' characteristics, like the physical world, creativity/sexuality and will without first engaging and developing the heart, throat and third eye, one stands the dangers of becoming too entrenched in the desire realm. It is also interesting that in Dzogchen/Bon, the idea exists that we are clear light and that this clear light manifests as colored light, as the five elements. Yellow is earth or solidity, Green is air or wind, Blue is water or fluidity, Red is fire/heat and White is space. These colored lights combine to create the world that we manifest. And, it is interesting that these colors are pastels. As well, on another note, the chakras are all white light in the center. I see that. It is only at the outer edges of the swirling trumpets that there is some color that is produced. And, there is no concordance for the different chakras' colors across disciplines. According to Paramhansa Yoganada Yogi, the root chakra is yellow, not red. When I look at it, the root chakra looks like a golden yellow mini pyramid, with four dark red petals on the outside. New Age teachings took the rainbow and moved up the colors the spectrum. I've seen that the heart can be golden too, not green. But mostly, it's a structure of white light. TI

Hi Stefos, I do not have a personal Dzogchen guru. I have been following the Dzogchen retreat instructions by Alan Wallace. http://archive.org/details/IntroductionToDzogchenRetreatWithAlanWallace2012 As well, I have over 10 books on Dzogchen.. I am aware that you were given transmission by C N Norbu. I realize that you can't talk about the experience of transmission, as per the PM's we exchanged a while ago. That is fine. The Kati channel is the channel from the heart that goes up around the ears and right into the pupils of both eyes. It is written about in several places and books. Here is one source: http://www.theopendoorway.org/thodgal.html All the best. TI

Hi Manitou Thank you for your reply. What you have described is not what I would call 'laxity' or the dullness that I have read warnings about. You seem to have accomplished what Alan Wallace describes as a milestone in his practices: The ability to watch the thoughts arising, assess the thought and have some space between the thought and the part that watches. And it has led you to the space of awareness.. Good for you. I do wonder what the spiral that you were watching is. Perhaps it is the pineal gland chakra? Or the brow chakra? Hard to say, especially when the inside of the head is such a large space.. Anyway, thanks again for the insight into your abilities. TI

Hi DMatWads If you are going to play with crystals, better learn more about them before you do. For one, if you do any crystal work, always put a black stone (obsidian, black tourmaline, jet etc) at your feet or below your body to ground the energy. Learn as much as you can about crystals before using them. Learn how to care for them, clear them, charge them, which ones to put in the sun, and which ones not to. Hint: you can use salt to clear crystals, or running water, or sunshine, or, if you are an adept, you can even give them a blast yourself.. I'm not trying to scare you or anything, but, did you clear and charge the "red rock" before you used it? What if it had an entity attached from the previous owner? The symptoms you describe are the result of using crystals improperly, in my opinion. The red would have opened your root chakra, but what did you do with that? Did you close it after? Did you ground it? Case in point: One time, as an experiment, I did a full-body layout using only emeralds.. I put an emerald at the feet, at the crown, on each chakra and one in each hand. The session felt like I was encased in a space of green heart love, very protective, exactly like a cocoon. It also felt very heady and spacey, like I was completely detached from the body, like I had become the space inside the cocoon. But, after the session, it was very disorienting. I felt like I was walking above the ground and it took a whole day/night to get back to normal. Crystals are very powerful and you have to show them some respect by learning about them, reading about them and even knowing how to pick them before you use them. For one, learn their names and their properties. A red rock could be jasper, ruby, or garnet. Each crystal has it's own hardness and signature vibration. Each crystal has properties that will either filter, amplify or subdue certain types of vibrations.. Some crystals, like amethyst, are very powerful for opening the third eye. White quartz is an all-round utility knife. It can cut like a laser, project like a laser and retain it's vibrations a very long time. My purpose here is not to become your instuctor, I'm just saying... I have several good books on crystals and some bad ones as well.. What I do is compare what each book says about the particular crystal and find the common ground, because, quite frankly, many of the books out there seem to just be making it all up. You have to check out the crystal yourself. First step, put it in your left palm and sense it's energies. See how it affects you. Do you like it? Does it make something vibrate? Does it make you feel comfortable? Is it friendly or malicious? Does it make your palm go numb? Get the idea? Good luck. TI