Tibetan_Ice

Hi Manitou, If you don't mind me asking, but what kind of meditation were you doing for those 30 years? Did you have a teacher? Was it TM? How often did you do it? And where did you get the idea that you are supposed to blank the mind? I must say, I have read in writings by Alan Wallace and some Buddhist masters that if one does not counter the state of laxity or dullness during meditation, one will end up in a state of mind without any noticeable thoughts, which is blissful and tranquil, but, which, if prolonged, leads to dementia and a decrease in intelligence. If you don't strive for clarity, vividness and a continous flow of attentiveness during meditation , you run the risk of becoming a vegetable. Not that I'm saying that your mention of 'dementia' and 'meditating for 30 years' and 'blank the mind' in the same paragraph means that that is what is happening to you. It's just that some teachers or groups believe that meditation is "having no thoughts". This is a misnomer. I think it is ok to have no thoughts when you have no breathing, but otherwise, most of the advanced Buddhist practices say that one of the goals of meditation is not to have no thoughts, but to have thoughts and just not be attached to them. There is a difference there. It is almost impossible to have absolutely no thoughts and to cultivate that state is not proper technique. So I'm curious as to what you are going to say. TI

Hi Welcome to the forum. That is so interesting! Wow! Yes, like a firehose in slow motion.. It is too bad you were driving. You can't really pay that much attention to anything if you are trying to stay on the road. But you seem to know the same ingredients... coming from the heart, natural deep relaxation.. Did you notice that it makes everything you are looking at feel like it is 'you'? Now I"m interested in your background, what kind of practices you are doing, how long you have been practicing, how old you are.. Did you do allot of gazing practices? And heart practices? Are you a Buddhist, Kriyaban, ecclectic? Do you belong to a group or have a guru? Yes, it could be nyam, but I think it is much more important. Did you notice the bliss, joy and that inside the 'tunnel' the vision was much brighter and vivid than the outside? Thank you so much for posting this. I never thought in a million years I would find anyone who has had that experience.. TI

Hi, I found this series of videos on Youtube yesterday. It is very insteresting. His Holiness the Gyalwang Drukpa gave teaching on a terma revealed by one of the previous lives of Kyabje Trulshik Rinpoche - "Yangti Guru Padmasambhava". He speaks of many miracles. In the second video, Gyalwang Drukpa declares that his father left his footprint in stone, and even painted pictures into stone with his finger. He says that many accomplished practitioners demonstrate their abilities in order to help their students overcome the solidity of their own beliefs. His interpretation of sambhogakaya is a little different from what I've read before: He says that the sambhogakaya is related to sound (not light). The other very interesting thing that he teaches is that in order to walk through solid pillars, one must first start by adopting the correct view with the use of imagination and practice that. He says that the reason why we normally can't walk through solid pillars is because we are too attached to the 'solidity' of the pillar. Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5 TI

Just thought I'd mention. I don't like Adyashanti. His teachings are inconsistent. He goes along and all seems legit, and then he says something that doesn't make sense, or is confusing or contradictory. I also heard a story about how he gave 'shaktipat' to one of his dope smoking friends and put him in a mental hospital, from someone who hung around him for a while. And he can be a condescending snot too, to people.

Hi, Well, during formal breath meditation, I focus on the breathing and the knowing of the breathing. Then it becomes a mental representation of the breath. I keep focusing on that, trying to make it a complete cycle. It helps if I visualize a white ball at the top and bottom of the breath. Then, after a while, the breath really slows down. Then, I up the concentration on the white light that appears there. Then, the white light gets wobbly, moves around and gets closer. Then, I dissolve and I find myself in this space with very little going on, or I find myself in immense bright light, full of bliss.. I have also tried the one breath, as suggested by Max in the Kunlun book. Making sure there are no pauses. That works too. Eventually your breath slows down and things get really bright. But again, I have to visualize a white ball of light moving up and down in order to know exactly when to move the breath so that it doesn't stop. But, for the Alan Wallace type of breath meditation, you aren't supposed to try to control your breathing in any way. This other method, the long "O", is a totally different philosophy. It is, letting what ever comes up, come up and not being attached or grasping at it. Another benefit I've found about the long "O" meditation is that I feel great afterwards, like I've been charged up. Yes, I was reading in the "Balancing the Mind" book by Tsonkhapa, that you have to use effort and will at first in order to remain on the mental representation of the breath. So, I started investigating. Will comes from below the navel. When I really tried hard (using will), I could feel the energy coming out from that location below the navel. It is also the same location that is used when you repeat a mantra, or sustain a single mantra. So I put 2 and 2 together.. A steady flow of will using the subvocalized, sustained "O".. and then focusing on the sound and the light. I guess I am a pioneer. We'll see what comes of it. Good luck. TI

Well, I just have to say. The meditation on the one continuos "O" is very powerful. The one side-effect from doing that type of meditation is that I am having very vivid dreams at night, and lots of them. The other interesting thing is that during meditation I hit the visions stage quite rapidly. For this afternoon's meditation, nearly the whole meditation was a terrific display of visions, lights, colors, shapes, moving patterns, moving lights, colors I've never seen before and way more. At one point I saw the tunnel of the third eye but didn't do anything with it because basically, you should just ignore everything you see. Don't grasp at it. It just keeps coming and dissolving, coming and dissolving.. It is like watching 100 fireworks shows all-at-once. Ok. Here is some of my theory behind this practice. If awareness, or the ground of being is one continual flow, the only way to tap into it is to sustain your attention on a continual flow, in order to match the same current. This is what most meditations strive to do: to keep the attention focused on one thing in a continual flow, a steady stream. The problem with breath meditation is that breathing starts, and then pauses, and then resumes. So, it is always pausing, like after the in-breath and after the out-breath. They say, during breath meditation that once you can focus on the breathing in and breathing out, you are supposed to focus on a complete cycle. Gradually, breath meditation builds on maintaining continual focus on many cycles of breathing. That is difficult, for a couple reasons. When the breathing pauses, that is when you are most vulnerable to mind-wandering. And, there is nothing to help you sustain a constant stream. During breath meditation I did hit the jhanas regularily, that is when I discovered this little bent-over-finger-like-thing in the center of the head. I think it comes from the heart. It kind of flopped around when I first discovered it, but after a while (a few weeks of working with it) I learned that you can direct it, or plop your attention down at a single place and then you can easily maintain a steady stream of attention. And it feels like you are actually looking through that finger. But you have to be pretty deep, your senses have to be shut off and you have to be on in inner side of your mind. However, if you subvocally sound off the "O" in one long continual 'silent sound', all of a sudden it becomes the long continual background from which you can watch everything else arise and pass, including the breathing. Sounding off the "O" also taps into the constant energy flow from the lower d/tan tien (below the navel). And, Sounding of the "O" is also activating the throat chakra, which is the seat of dreams. But it has to be one long "OOOOOOOOOO" and keep it going without any pauses. And, you listen to the sound, like you were talking to yourself. Today, I did that for 1 hour during my meditation. So far I haven't had any overloads from this practice, just lots of mind-blowing colors and lights and then vivid dreams at night. It is quite allot of fun. You see so many patterns/lights/colors coming and if you don't grasp at them or try to conceptualize too much, they just keep coming and get even more intense. I've seen so many things I've never seen before that it makes me think that normal visions and scenes are so boring.. I'm sure there will something useful to realize after refining the practice. Or perhaps I've discovered how to gain access to one of the four stages of types of visions talked about in the Thogal practice leading to Dzogchen.. I'll have to do some research. If the basic premise is that we are manifestations of clear light, and the five elements/colors are manifestations of the splitting of the clear light into the five lights(pure and impure), then maybe we should be playing in the lights and resting as the projector, enjoying the show.. I'm kind of loving this practice. Glad I thought of it. TI

Maybe sound is light.. just a lower frequency..

Hi Yes, the techniques for mastering the various elements are divulged in the Visuddhimagga. For example, creating an earth nimitta and then using that as your object of meditation (kasina) leads to the ability to solidify things, like water.. So, you could walk on water by projecting the solidity of earth onto the water.. TI

He gives instructions on how to begin practice to walk through pillars in "Day 2". (second video) There is no video in which he actually walks through a pillar.. But, the idea that first you start by using imagination and then eventually it becomes something else is a well-established secret principle that I learned about many years ago.

Hi Xabir That was quite a read. Thanks for the link. I can't help but wonder if maybe everyone is saying the same thing. For example, the atman is the son clear light, the Brahman is the mother clear light. As Shakyamuni described, the 'son clear light' does not really exist, hence sunyata, because it is really a part of the 'mother clear light'. I find it beneficial, at least in my mind, to distinguish between the two. It saves from having the typical confusions such as arise from trying to understand a lack of division between the two. For example, if I were mother clear light, I should be able to see everything, be everything, know everything. But, remaining consciously in 'son clear light', I only see/be/know that which is the smaller part, superimposed over the larger part, until such time as I can shatter the bottle and join the one 'mother clear light'. I think everybody is saying and pointing to the same thing.. Now, I know in Buddhist terminology that the ground or basis is called gzhi, and in this case I am calling the ground "mother clear light". I think it is useful because there is an underlying reference to the dependant origination of the 'son clear light'. The only thing I'm not understanding is that I've read in so many places that enlightenment cannot be transmitted or given or foist upon anyone. Thus, if enlightenment is the realization of 'mother clear light', and it cannot be transmitted, then there can be no effective 'transmission' in Dzogchen. All they can do is point to it, or perhaps introduce a person to the 'son clear light' and then let the introductee proceed on their own course. The other interesting thought that I have had is this: If it is possible for the 'son clear light' to 'break on through' and become part of the 'mother clear light', then it must also be possible that the 'mother clear light' can also break on through (or poke through) and manifest directly into the 'son clear light'. The rules and regulations of common day existence seem to fall apart in this instance. Thanks for the thoughts. TI

well, er, yes. Jesus is the ultimate Dzogchen master. If it's a malevolent demon, he will zap him in the light.

Can you be any more vague than that? Is your guru C N Norbu? Did you meet him in person? And he teaches you Vajrayana practices like you mentioned in other posts? mantra and tummo?

Vmarco, Perhaps that is why there is so much confusion. This quote does not make sense. It appears that Lao Tzu did say it too.. http://www.inspirationalstories.com/quotes/lao-tzu-intellectual-knowledge-exists-in-and-of-the/ If it were true that knowledge expires with the death of the brain, then how do you explain the numerous stories about Buddhists who reincarnate and retain their memories/knowledge? It is a well known fact that Buddhist meditations, like the anapanasati and venturing into the jhanas empowers the mind to be able to remember what one ate for breakfast 30 years ago, and recall past lives right down to personal names, addresses etc. This is mentioned by Buddhist meditation teachers such as Alan Wallace, Ajahn Brahm, Shaila Catherine, and on and on... There are many many stories in Buddhism about the indestructible drop in the heart which goes on from one life to another. Karma also is the case where past impressions carry over from one life to another. Lessons learned in one lifetime manifest in more recent lives. Although, normally, one does not remember knowledge, intellectual or otherwise from previous lives, there are cases of child prodigy-ism, where a three-year-old can play concertos, or do complex mathematical equations with little or no formal education. These are some of the talents and knowledge that carry over from one life time to another. The idea that mind is in the brain is a misnomer. It is false. The idea that knowledge does not carry forward from one lifetime to another is also false. TI

Yes, but you said you were a pure Dzogchenpa: So being a pure Dzogchenpa, you should have no samaya. Why do you keep saying you are a vajrayana practioner? Who is your guru Alwayson?

Alwayson, You said: http://thetaobums.com/topic/27366-dzogchen-teachings/?p=414191 Here is what C N Norbu says about samaya: So, according to C N Norbu, there are no rules and regulations within the context of taking vows, samaya with regards to Dzogchen. So what are you talking about? Are you making this all up about "rules and regulations"? Did C N Norbu force you to make promises behind the scenes even though he writes that there are "no outer rules"? TI

So C N Norbu is your guru? And he has given you samaya?

I was listening to a podcast by Alan Wallace today wherein he claimed that Vajrayana has the practice of Dzogchen in it, but that the practice of Dzogchen does not have any "Buddhism" in it. That intrigued me. Alan Wallace said that in podcast #16, Dzogchen retreat Day 4 afternoon part 1, start listening at 1:50:00 ... http://archive.org/details/IntroductionToDzogchenRetreatWithAlanWallace2012 "He really is talking about Dzogchen meditation, not just shamatha" "You aren't bringing any Buddhism in." "Exactly what part of this is Buddhist?" "Its a core Buddhist practice but there is no part of it that is really Buddhist". I researched a bit.. There is a discussion about this on the DW: http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=3053 Here, Malcolm is arguing that Dzogchen that is part of Buddhism based on the fact that Dzogchen and Buddhism contain the same ideologies and concepts. However, this type of argument is denying the history of Dzogchen.. that it predates Buddhism. Here is what Tenzin Wangyal says about Bon: So, if Bon Dzogchen came first, and then then Buddhists picked it up, just because a person is a Dzogchenpa, doesn't mean that he/she is a Buddhist. TI

Hi Seth, Well, I've been trying to find that type of experience and I did find the 3'rd and 4'th lamps. I posted about them here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/27308-natural-perfection-longchenpas-radical-dzogchen-clear-light/?hl=lamp#entry409891 The lamps indicate that there are channels from the heart to the eyes. They just don't say what type of experience it produces, but if you add it up, I think that is what they are and that is the effect that they produce. And, the fourth lamp, also called the lasoo, is the one that let's you view at a distance, or zoom in on things. It looks like you are looking at whatever you are focusing on as if you were looking through a telescope. I have had that experience twice a few years ago. I wrote about it a few times. It is done by closing the eyes and looking with love from the heart. So, I wouldn't call it a premature conclusion.. I would just like to find someone else who is having the same experiences so that I can compare notes.. But, yes, it really is a clear luminous watery substance that comes out of the eyes.. TI

Hi Xabir, Thank you for posting your experience of 'clear light' during sleep. Specifically " It does happen for me consciously in sleep and it can be incredibly intense and blissful. There was also the sense that I was being absorbed into the heart chakra before it happens". It is not a metaphor. The clear light experience that I am talking about, which comes from the heart, up into the eyes and out of the face sounds like it is the same phenomenon. Intense bliss, being absorbed into the heart chakra.. Perhaps you don't notice the clarity or the luminesence because you are sleeping.. It is hard to tell contrasting scenery in the sleep state as there is nothing to compare the quality or luminescence. When this state occurs for me during the normal waking state, there is intense bliss, clarity, peace, joy, love and the feeling that everything is 'me'. Yes, Seth, it looks like a tunnel of brilliant clear light coming out of your face! The first time it happened to me, I was in the park, in the trails. I had been practising Jack Kornfield's "mind like sky" meditation and was walking back to my car. It was spring time and the leaves were coming out on the trees. I stopped, took a deep breath and admired the new leaves, the bright green color and just loved it. Ahhh! Then, this liquid-like water substance came out of my eyes and pushed forward to the visual field of the emerging leaves. It was like looking through a round tunnel of great clarity, the focal point being the branches with the new-forming leaves. The reason I say clarity is because everything outside of the tunnel looked 'normal', but inside the tunnel, it was so clear, crisp and luminous that it made the 'normal' parts of the visual field seem foggy or dull. The second time this phenomenon happened to me I was at a fast food place. I was standing in line. I had been meditating for 1 hour previously.. I was very relaxed, calm and just enoying the moment. I looked at the various machines on the counter and was admiring the colors, they seemed brighter than normal. Then, all of a sudden, the clear light came out of my face and into the whole visual field. I was everything! I was everyone there, the food workers moving about, taking orders and delivering the food items. I was the counter, the walls, the lights, the people, everything. Again, there was great bliss and clarity. It was like looking at the whole scene in High Definition. The third time it happened, I was reading "Experience and Philosophy" by Merrill-Wolff in the park. The sun was shining, there was a cool breeze and I was reading on the park bench. I read a part in the book about "It is so simple. If you start searching for it, you have already missed it." So, I sat up straight, and tried to become very simple.. That is when it happened. The clear light came out of my face into the visual field again. If I had to describe the place it is coming from, I would say that it is in front of the conceptual mind and behind the outer visual field. In the middle. When it happens, you can detect that the thoughts and voice from the conceptual mind come from the back of the inner space. You can also tell that that whole conceptual mind has been pushed aside, pushed back and that it is trying to expand itself back into the center of the inner space. The whole experience was astounding for me. I was once again looking as a waterous clear luminous shiny substance that was pure love, joy, bliss, luminosity and divine presence. It felt like me, or rather, we were the same being. The fourth time it happened, I was soaping my foot during the morning shower. It was again, the same characteristics. Except, I got more of a chance to examine the state. The monkey mind was shut off. There was no more incessant little voice or cloud of thoughts present. There were one or two thoughts and they were very clear, and they were produced by my mental comment.. like "Wow". "It is happening again". "Yes, I feel like I am the tub, the walls, the soap".. Again, great bliss, clarity, brilliant scenery.. I stood up straight and it went away. I bent over to soap my foot again and it came back.. Delicious~! Xabir, I believe you have access to that bliss in your heart. I can tell because it resonates with me. It comes from the heart. I believe it takes the Kati channel from the heart to the eyes when it manifests. If you were to practice meditating in your favorite out-door scene, and close your eyes, but imagine that you are looking at the scene through your heart, by loving the scene, I wonder if that would help you manifest the same kind of experience? Then you could see that it really does look like clear waterous luminous light, filled with bliss, joy, peace and silence. I have had more experiences with this phenomenon. Two days ago, I was meditating and I experienced a sort of heart opening. I had been loving my breath, during breath meditation. I have found that it is easier to stay focused on the breath if you 'love' it. Well, all of a sudden, my heart chakra started to gush out very fine tingles and energy surges, going up and out into the mental visualization of the breath, in front of my nose. I let it go on, it was again pure bliss, joy, and peace. However, I noticed that the whole conceptual mind was behind again. It is back from where the experience was taking place, in the space of the mind. The conceptual mind is such a horrible thing. It screams out things like "oh no, not this again" or "you are imagining this". The conceptual mind is like a screaming demon, or a spoiled child, screaming out "give me some attention!" "Don't look there, look here!" I really have to push hard to subdue it, relax and change the focus of attention more forward. I did notice that there was nothing that I would describe as great luminosity or clarity in the scene, though, as everything that I was viewing internally was on the same level of intensity and color level. (Not like viewing the inside and the outside of the tunnel with eyes open out-of-doors). The key is the heart. Love from the heart. TI

Hi Konchog, Yes, I will take you up on that discussion about clear light. You see, even though you were underwhelmed with rest of the book, I kept reading it and I'm in love with this book now. The concepts in this book resonate very deeply with the rest of what I've been learning and experiencing. As you sit, with neither grasping nor averting, letting be, making no effort to 'do' anything but watch, and not become attached to what you see or think about it, the veils drop away, everything you see becomes brighter and brighter until it just radiates. As you progress, you see the light, brighter than anything. That is the manifestation of the child clear light or child rigpa (according to this book). It manifests into several different spectacles. But if you grasp at them, if you think about them, they dull out. This is training is watching and not thinking about what you are seeing. Then, once you are well established in child clear light, it breaks through and joins mother clear, mother rigpa, enlightenment. That book mentions the five lights of primordial wisdom, the five elements, the Bon teachings. How the clear light manifests into the five lights, and depending on how they are percieved, they are either the five primordial wisdoms or the five manifestations of samsara. The theme that samsara and nirvana are just two sides of the same coin is also present in this book. And, you also find the disregard of ethics, or good and bad, and other forms of dualistic grasping. I don't think you read the book. I think you abandoned it after a while and didn't finish it. For, if you had, I think you would have understood what clear light is. The fourth Vajra verse describes it so wonderfully, I don't see how anyone could have missed it, or not understood it. And, I was also quite suprised when the book mentioned that breath meditation is an opportunity to buddhahood: Notice, he says "without deliberate effort". Breath meditation is a way to practice "neither grasping nor averting, resting in the natural state". But, on the topic of clear light. Clear light is the source of samsara and nirvana. It is that which is inextricably mixed into the dharmakaya. It's brilliance and shine reveals itself the more you still the mind, let go, neither grasp nor avert.. The book calls it non-meditation.. This has been my experience. As I progress in watching the breath, I'm getting better at not consciously controlling the breathing. As I progress, the thoughts and images appear crystal clear and very luminous, bright, shiny and radiant. Vivid. When the reflection of the child clear light manifests, it is very bright.. I haven't broken through to mother clear light yet, but when I do I will let you know. Here are some quotes from that book about the clear light. There is no need for discussion. I'm just presenting something that I love: So, I don't know what you need in order to think that this is a great book. Although there is the odd non-conventional term, like "absence" and lots of big words, this book is right on. TI

Further, Vmarco, you said: You are right. Few people realize that. That is because it is not true. It was not meditation that 'nearly killed him', it was asceticism. And, he meditated after recovering. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha TI

Backstabbing, lying, misconstruing, insulting, trolling, derailing threads, generally being caustic and acidic, presenting unsupported unverifiable statements, implying undeserved ignorance and being destructive rather than educational and supportive are not my definitions of being real. Are you contemplating what will happen when Jax reads your accusations and malicious statements in that other thread?

Hi Jax First off, let me welcome you here to TBB. I was sure surprised to see you visit, especially when I had quoted one of your posts on one of your pages a half a year ago, about the Kati light channels. Many people appreciated your article. (link below) You are the only other living person in the world that I have found that seems to have experience with these channels. I have had several experiences with this waterous crystal clear substance gushing forth out of my face and into the visual range. It's characteristics are: "luminescence, bliss, the feeling that it is 'me', clarity, love, silence and peace". It seems quite miraculous. I wrote about some of those experiences here (with your article): http://thetaobums.com/topic/24409-meaning-clear-light/ (warning, there are some posts about you in that thread that are not exactly nice... as seems to be the norm by those few posters. Pandits and intellectuals here have verified for me that the pure intellectual mind is desolate, barren and cold, something Eckhart Tolle pointed out a long time ago. ) I also learned that you can see things in the distance by using the channel in the eyes, by seeing with love through the heart. The experience is like looking through a telescope at the brow.. Later, I read that there is called a lasso lamp which does specifically that, so it was nice to discover that and get confirmation. The heart is a magical thing. Again, your post here means so much to me, for it has given me confirmation that such experiences as clear light issuing forth are bonified experiences in advanced practices, and that perhaps I'm on the right path. If you have any more information about the clear light and the heart channels, I would love to read about them. Further, if you have any other experiences about clear light that you are willing to divulge, I would love to read about them. One question that I would really like to know the answer to: Is the clear light that issues forth from the heart and up the channel the son clear light or the mother clear light? Baby rigpa or mother rigpa? All the best, and thanks for not bugging out because someone forget to lock the dogs in the garage.. TI

Hi Owledge Yes, fear. I've had it lots. Stopped me many times.. After I 'met Jesus' and got annointed by the Holy Spirit, I started to see demons. One night I had prayed in tongues for two hours. Then I went to bed. Just as I was ready to fall asleep, a small boy floated up beside the bed. I asked it "Who are you?". It said "What does it matter?". I said "I bind you in the name of Jesus Christ", and then suddenly the image of the small boy vanished and I found myself looking at what resembled a demon. It had a long snout like a crocodile, and big long teeth. Reptilian. It took a snap at me with it's jaws and then turned and vanished. After that I was binding everything I saw in the astral.. At first there was fear, but after I realized that Jesus is always there, always there, I no longer feared. However, the whole notion that perhaps demons actually did exists, and that perhaps some of what the Bible was saying might have actually been true caused me much grief. So, gradually I abandoned the whole religious thing. However, Jesus is always there, even now.. and the Holy Spirit too. There are many beings in the higher planes.. Another time, about 20 or more years ago, I wanted to know what the star was above the head. Everybody was talking about it. So, one afternoon I sat on my lazy body and said to myself, "I'm not getting up until I realize that star on the top of the head." So I sat there and focused on the point about 1 foot above the head and just kept focusing there with all my might. Well, three and half hours later I 'popped' out of the top of my head. I found myself in this huge open dark blue space, like I was in outer space. I had the immense fear that I had died. I could not overcome it. I quit the meditation and got up out of the chair. It took me a few years to get over that fear.. actually, more like 15 years.. In later meditations I came accross the same open space, and once I had overcome my fear of dying, I even jumped into that void. I did 'bounce' right back out, because it actually isn't just open space. There is a kind of clear luminous cellophane which prevented me from falling out of the location where my body should have been. Another time, recently, when I was practising "neither grasping nor averting" during a late night meditation, the whole top of my consciousness dissolved downwards into the heart. It felt like I was dying or going to pass out. No more consciousness. So, I stopped the meditation. But then, I researched that experience and discovered that Alan Wallace talked about exactly that experience. It is the moment when coarse consciousness dissolves into the alaya or substrate consciousness.. Gradually, I discovered more sources on the experience and convinced my mind that it really wasn't going to die. That's what I do. If I have an experience that causes me confusion or fear, I research it and learn as much as I can about it. That is all in an effort to convince my and help it assimilate the experience.. Sometimes it takes a long time.. There was one experience that still causes me 'fear'. It was when i was doing a practice of changing my visual focus every 1/2 a second, while walking through a lovely trail in the forrest. After doing that type of practice, not remaining on any one visual scene long enough for the conceptual mind to firmly grasp onto it, I went shopping. When I entered the store, all of a sudden the whole inside of the store appeared to me as if it was a dream. It was like looking at the bakery section from inside a tunnel or condensed image, like I had fallen asleep and was dreaming being in the store. That caused me allot of fear. I waited for about 3 minutes and fought real hard, then gradually regained normalcy. But, the whole idea that I could be doing something and suddenly the whole of reality could 'condense' into the tunnel-like vision that resembled a dream scared the shit out of me. What if that happened while I was driving? Or crossing the street? However, that practice, being in the present moment and not giving the mind enough time to grasp and start the conceptual dialog, is a practice that Eckhart Tolle wrote about in "Practising the Power of Now". And, as it turns out, it is also the 'secret Buddhist/Dzogchen' practice called "fresh awareness" or staying in the first moment when you refresh your awareness and take a new interest in the absolute present. I think that practice is probably the most powerful one for shattering the mind. And, it helps if you do it in circumstances that you love, like the forrest, or a natural setting.. (and then don't drive for a few hours after doing it.. LOL) And, yes, I have had experiences that I thought I was losing my mind. Especially after witnessing miracles, like healings and bizarre cases of synchronicity. But it always seems to come back.. I think it helps that I don't drink, don't do drugs and haven't for over 35 years.. And, I have a very strong mind and will. And, actually, if you have a strange experience, just start researching Buddhist writings. You're bound to find the experience written in some of the books. It's all old hat to them. TI

Hi I wrote this back in 2009. So even if the writing is in present tense, it was from over four years ago. It does give some insight in what you can see with your eyes closed (and open too). Note: I am not bragging nor trying to bolster my own ego by posting this. I am presenting these experiences here in hopes that they give some perspective to others' experiences. For, it is by sharing experiences and comparing notes that we can learn more about the wonderful beings we truly are. Hi Everyone From time to time, someone here posts a question about "seeing" visions during meditation. I too had many questions about what I was seeing during meditation. These are my findings and comments. First off, it is important to understand the concept of awareness or attention so that it is not confused with the physical act of seeing through the eyes. Awareness or attention is like a very small video camera that has infinite speed. Whatever this video camera points to is what you are aware of. It can focus on a range from a very small point to a very large expansive area. It is extremely fast, faster than the speed of light, and in most people, it flits about pointing to whatever it is attracted to or is in the habit of pointing to. Awareness is attracted to the world of forms: thoughts, objects, body sensations, touch, taste, sounds, memories, movement etc. One of the main attractants of awareness is light. Another main attractant is anything that feels good like love, bliss, joy and pleasurable sensations. Concentration is the ability to focus awareness on one thing (or a group of things), whether that thing is a thought, object, visual field, sensation or anything else in the world of forms. By "world of forms" I mean anything that has manifest itself from the formless deep vast ocean of deep silence. Imagine a Tibetan bell ringing. Before the bell sounds, the ringing does not exist. As the bell is ringing, the sound is perceivable. As the sound dies down and fades away, we have to listen more intently. Listening more intently is a way of focusing or turning up our awareness. Finally, when the ringing sound is gone and returned to the formless or deep silence from which it was born, we notice that our awareness has increased. But the effect does not last long. Meditation is the practice of focusing and stabilizing the little video camera in your head. When your eyes are open that little video camera, although it is still flitting about pointing at thoughts, sensations, sounds and more, is pointing mostly outwards through the eyes. When you close your eyes during meditation, the visual stimulus is greatly reduced and that little video camera starts pointing more often at other things like sounds, sensations and thoughts. At night, when the sun goes down, that is when you see the stars. If you keep looking through your physical eyes with your eyes closed while relaxing the body, paying attention to the visual field, eventually you will start to see pulsing colors that come in waves and disappear into the distance. These lights are often green and purple and are rounded (like the shape of the eye). These colored waves are a physical phenomenon related to the cranial sacral pulse (my opinion) and it's effect on the pressure in the eyes. There is no mystical or spiritual significance to these types of visions. Best to ignore them, or use them as an indicator as to how relaxed the body is because you only see these pulses of light when the body is very relaxed. A similar phenomenon is that you will see lights when you press your fingers lightly on closed eyes. The extra pressure stimulates the light-sensing cells at the back of the eye and this causes the light show. So, during meditation, or not even during meditation but if you just sit in the dark with your eyes closed, you should try to let go of the physical intent of looking through your eyes. You do this naturally when you fall asleep. The eyes will also shut off by themselves from prolonged lack of stimulus. One way to manually shut off the eyes is to roll them upwards and pretend that you are going to fall asleep by focusing on the swirling eddy of energy about 1 inch behind your eyebrows inside your head. When you do this, you will notice that your awareness, that little video camera in your head, is still working away transmitting input and flitting about. True visions arise when the little video camera is the recipient of the information. Perhaps most people think that if they close their eyes and see a vision, face, scene or what not, that they are seeing through their eyes. Not so. It may seem like you are seeing the vision through the eyes because it is very hard to get the eyes not to follow the little video camera. I've noticed this when practicing spinal breathing, sending your awareness or attention up and down the spine while performing sambhavi. There is a natural tendency for the eyes to follow awareness. In other words, the eyes want to follow the little video camera up and down and it takes some effort to break this habit. When you dream, even though your eyes are shut off they still want to follow the little video camera that is recording the dream. This is called REM sleep: Rapid Eye Movement. So now that we are clear that it is the little video camera in your head (or heart) that perceives visions, and it is called awareness or attention, let's discuss the different visions that may occur during meditation (or other times) and their significance. When I first started meditating regularly, sometimes I would see a face looking at me! Sometimes it was a male face, or a female face. Sometimes it was a young child. Sometimes there were many faces. At first I was very cautious and would "bind them in the name of Jesus Christ" and ask them to go away if they were not from the highest purest realms of being. After this pronouncement, some faces disappeared, but most remained. Occasionally I would ask the face a question or two and then wait to see if anything popped into my head. Most faces would answer my questions (their answers kind of pop into your head) but I quickly lost interest in communicating with them because I've always believed that "just because you are dead doesn't mean you are enlightened". What are these faces that appear? There are many theories. Some say that they are beings from other planes. Some say that the faces are what you look like in your previous or future lives. I did find one reference to these faces in something written about Edgar Cayce and meditation. It stated this (link:http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce12.html .. no longer works): "We may at this point be fascinated by the many faces appearing, or numerous pairs of eyes staring. We may even hear our names called; we may feel as if we were in the midst of a crowd, listening to chatter and laughter. We must not stop there, for we are not yet in real meditation. Of course, it is fascinating at first, for it is an entirely new experience. The sounds, the voices, the pictures, the eyes and faces may all belong to souls already in the beyond who, having seen the light pouring through the open door (the spiritual center), have been attracted. It is much akin to the sensation of looking through a strange keyhole, only to see another eye looking back. Intriguing, perhaps, but neither stands to gain much from such a restricted encounter. We must leave this entertainment behind and "press on to the mark of the high calling," his mark, the superconscious mind, the Christ Consciousness, the Holy Spirit, the "hill of the Lord." " Later on in my meditations, I experienced persistent visions. At the time I was practicing Kunlun as a supplement to my practices. (Kunlun is a practice of pranic breathing followed by reflexive shaking of the legs followed by storing the prana at the lower dan tien). These visions were persistent visions. I would see, for example, a sun over a blue ocean with a clay Buddha floating just above the calm water and that scene was easily visible for several weeks, any time of the day or night. I could tune into it and watch it with great clarity. At other times I've seen suns, moons, stars, planets that resembled earth and sometimes perfectly round discs of light. The persistent visions are a different class of vision. Perhaps the brain, when filled to excess with pranic life force, manufactures these visions or perhaps they indicate a hole into another plane burned out by extreme concentration and improper practice. I have no idea. I did find a book about visions called "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" and learned about nimittas and jhanas. A nimitta is a mind object which is born from the natural state of mind. What this means is that if you let go and relax enough, to the point where your mind is just about to stop, that natural state will manifest mind objects relative to the degree of concentration and absorption of the meditative practice. They are not visions you see through your eyes, they are seen only by the little video camera in your head. But they 'look' like scenes, lights, discs. According to the book, Buddha said that you should meditate on the nimitta until you either merge with the nimitta or it explodes propelling you into a state of jhana. The states of jhanas are said to cause enlightenment. I have not yet managed to get a clear enough nimitta on which to meditate and propel myself into the state of one of the jhanas. I still get too excited. Recently I have been distracted by pleasurable kundalini activity anytime I stop my mind even for a split second. Dreams: While meditating, a person will pass through the realm of dreams. If one pays attention to these dream visions, one will be dragged out into the dream and the meditation is lost. I used to use this technique to revisit landscapes or dreamscapes: While lying in bed I would remember the scene that I wished to enter and visualize it. Once I could 'see' it I would simply imagine myself flying into that scene on an exhalation of breath and before I knew it I would be in the dream. During meditation, to keep out of the dream state (I discovered this during one meditation which consisted of watching my thoughts) you have to control your breathing. If you let your breath go completely it is very easy to get sucked into a dream. If you take an active part in your breathing (you do the same thing whenever you are really concentrating) then it is easier to stay out of the dream. Sometimes thoughts will drag you into dreams. Another method of not getting dragged into the dream is to simply ignore and continue whatever you are doing, be it the mantra etc. Chakra visions: Some interesting visions have occurred for me concerning chakras. Again, these are not images you see through your eyes but through awareness or attention (that little video camera). After one "I AM" meditation I was sitting on the bathroom floor having a smoke and I noticed that I could see what I believe to be my root chakra. It resembles a golden square, somewhat pyramidal and it has four dark red petals } around the base. There is a fine white thread coming out from the centre top progressing upwards and I could also see two white droplets of liquid just sitting on the thread. Ever since that day the ability to see this chakra has not diminished. Sometimes the drops are red... Another time, due to excess pressure in the lower abdomen causing natural root lock , I saw a luminous 'straw' leading upwards from my root chakra inside the center of my body where the thin thread used to be. The straw shone with pastel colors of red, white and blue, like clouds over a sunset sky. the 'straw" was about 1/4 inch thick. I could only see it up to the heart chakra. However, a few minutes later I saw multiple planes of existence and myriad beings and this vision lasted for quite a while, even with my eyes open. This was kind of disconcerting for me. We really have no privacy (understatement here..) One time during Samyama, I released the sutra "Love" and my heart exploded with white light, shooting out forwards and backwards. I could see the beams and I also saw other planes and universes inside my heart. I saw beings dressed in long robes in strange new lands. A few times when I was practicing chakra meditation and a certain kundalini meditation, after activating the crown chakra, the crown became a wonderful luminous cap of white liquid light. It looked like I was wearing a bathing cap of leaf-like petals that were wrapping around the outside of my skull coming down to just above my ears. Also, the center of my head, inside more towards the back, has a triangular liquid light center. It kind of looks like a white-light strawberry. I believe this is the pineal gland. Other Beings and Angels: Once, in a church called The Victory Christian Center, I saw Jesus. It was at a Wednesday night prayer session. I made an effort to contact Jesus and raised my right hand in the air. A small light appeared that gradually became a face with long brown hair and a beard. The face smiled at me. The face kept descending and became the full image of Jesus, wearing a red and white robe. I heard him say "You are saved". After that I couldn't move for around 40 minutes. I sat on the bench and had tears streaming down my face. Waves of something were running through my body and I couldn't stand up or move my body. On another occasion I saw a bright round light with wings floating above the congregation. It was shooting beams of light at the top of peoples' heads. This produced small wings of light on the peoples' heads. That whole sermon was about the Holy Ghost. Again, these visions were not seen through the physical eyes, but with the little video camera in my head. It feels like you are dreaming while you can still see the surrounding outer environment. One time, after a deep meditation, I was sitting on the bathroom floor having a smoke and a being of white light appeared. It resembled a translucent angel. It looked liked a being wearing a long white see-through gown. There were two large wings extending from the back. The outline was made of luminescent currents of moving light that bled out into the surrounding space. When I first saw it I knew that it was pure and divine. I could feel the love that it emanated towards me. It was a very profound emotional experience and I cried a long time. Several months later another angel visited me as I sat on the chair in my living room. It looked pretty much like the first angel that I have described here. I like to believe that it is true that as you progress along the spiritual path you attract higher and purer beings. Kundalini visions: At the time during my meditation history when I was experiencing flames up the spine at one point I started seeing visions of female anatomy. Full frontal displays of female genetalia were appearing before me with exquisite detail. Female torsos in various positions, each revealing their own erotic flavor. I would be meditating and suddenly the lower half of a female body would appear, with legs spread wide open. At other times a pair of buttocks would appear, bending over with legs spread. These images were amazing to me and very stimulating. Eventually though I had to make a real effort to ignore them because I did not think that that was the purpose of meditation. Every now and then I still see those kinds of visions. Perhaps their purpose is to stimulate certain energy flows that are needed to evolve one's meditations? Or perhaps they are beings from other planes trying to suck out my sexual energy? I don't know. One time (again while smoking on the bathroom floor) I saw a "live" vision of a beautiful Indian woman dressed in blue silk harem-style dress. She had bells in her hands, and wore gold necklaces and an ornate gold head band. She was absolutely gorgeous. I asked her who she was and she said that she was Kundalini and that she had come to dance for me. She would twirl around and dance about, quite seductively I might add. Kundalini danced for me many times during a two month period. I am so lucky to have had Kundalini dance for me! Looking with the Heart: I once read that you can see with your heart. What you are supposed to do is try to feel your surroundings with your heart (instead of looking through your eyes). One day I decided to try that practice. As I sat on the grassy banks of the river on a beautiful sunlight summer day, I closed my eyes and felt the scene with my heart. I was enjoying it immensely when some sun bathers about 100 yards away made some noise that caught my attention. All of a sudden this round circle opened up in front of my face and I could see the sunbathers close up through this circle. It was like I was looking at them through a telescope! I could not believe it. It was like I was standing three feet above them looking right at them. Since that time, I've had two other experiences of seeing from the heart. The resolution of that type of vision is very clear and bright and it looks like you are really there in real life. The world is full of mysteries. Too many visions: After meditating consistently twice a day for about 1 1/2 years (and doing other practices), when I would meditate while putting the tongue on the roof of the mouth and focusing the eyes towards the third eye, I would see massive amounts of visions. I saw everything imaginable, scenes up scenes, faces, moving pictures, people, places, events and more all whizzing by with great speed. It was overwhelming. It was as though someone had turned on one thousand televisions in your head and was switching the channels. After a couple weeks of experiencing this phenomenon I had to quit focusing on the brow during meditation. Not only did it seem pointless, but it was extremely distracting and produced a lot of stress. I finally told myself that that was not meditation. The Light: About a month and a half ago I started practicing the "sensing the inner body" routine as explained by Eckhart Tolle. I sit in easy posture and relax. I put my hands on each leg, palms facing upwards. At the bottom of each breath I let go and try to relax deeper and deeper. I let go and feel my hands until they become clouds of magnetic fields. I then add on feeling my feet and legs. Gradually I expand the sensing of the presence or life force to encompass the whole body. I monitor my breath because the quieter the mind gets, the slower the breath becomes. And, the more relaxed I become, the longer the pause becomes at the end of the breath. It is also during this pause that my perineum starts orgasm-ing or releasing waves of ecstatic energy. This meditation is so blissful, relaxing, warm and tingly, secure, friendly and feels so great that I just love doing it. I'm not even that good at it yet. Once you have a consistent feel of the whole inner body you are supposed to listen to silence intently from the whole body. What I've noticed is this. There is a set pattern to what occurs in the visual field as this meditation progresses. Even though I'm not focusing on the head (no tongue on palate or focusing the eyes on the third eye), my brow still becomes a huge magnetic hole that feels like it has a lot of pressure in it. Even though my eyes are pointing downwards, faces and visions still appear at the brow region. If I see a vision or a scene I use that as an indicator that I'm not focusing fully on sensing the presence in the body. Even with this behavior I have noticed that I still see faces, then scenes, then lights. A consistent vision that occurs near the end of each 50 minute 'sensing the body' meditation is "a bunch of little square flat dancing lights". I don't know what they are but it seems to be the result of a good session where I had become a solid cloud of magnetic bliss. I'm thinking that the square lights are crude nimittas. The other phenomenon that I've noticed is that when I'm very very relaxed, a brilliant white light appears at the center of my head (usually accompanied by kundalini in the root stirring and releasing some ecstatic conductivity... yum!) Well, that's enough about visions. To me, visions are part of spiritual development. They serve as sign posts that say that you are progressing and doing something right (or wrong). When your consciousness and awareness expand you will perceive other dimensions of existence and realize new phenomenon. Some visions can be viewed as distractions and a waste of valuable time. But even then, like the stars that appear at night, they are signs that the sun has set or is going to rise. Other visions such as nimittas can be used to propel one's self into higher states of jhana. The visions of other beings from other planes are fascinating to me and I certainly do appreciate meeting every being that I have met so far. We are not alone. Hopefully this write-up has helped your understanding of visions. Oh, if you see Jesus in one of your meditations, say that I say "Hi". OM SHANTI TI