Tibetan_Ice

link: http://www.treasuryoflives.org/biographies/view/Padmasambhava/7442 link: http://bonpo.wordpress.com/2009/07/26/the-three-types-of-bon/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmasambhava

HH Dalai Lama is the 14'th Dalai Lama. He imposed the ban. Duh.. The HH Dalai Lama said that at one time he did go with Tsongkhapa's teachings but that since, he changed his mind.

Laugh hard, Alwayson. You need a little less ass.

Well, SJ, thanks for that. Yes, I am aware of Tenzin Wangyal, have several of books, his CD, DVD and have even watched his webcasts. I find it interesting that Tenzin teaches practices to balance ida and pingala and take the light up the central channel. Actually, Tenzin is quite the intellect, but I like him because he is simple. Did you know that Padmasambhava is Bon? Alan Wallace teaches Padmasambhava, and Dudjom Lingpa. Actually, Alan Wallace said something interesting. In podcast 14 from the Dzogchen retreat, he said that a Tibetan Doctor cured him from hepatitis. Thus, he proceeded to repay the favor and spent 1 1/2 years translating tibetan medical books for the Tibetan Doctor. What he said is this. The first section of the entire Tibetan medical body of knowledge is written in one book of 30 pages. If one is astute enough and he gets it, he can read that and then go practice. If he/she does not get it, then your read the second book, which is much longer. If you don't get that, then you read the third book, which takes much longer. He said that normally it takes about 6 years to fully learn and understand Tibetan Medicine. I wonder how long Malcom took to become a Tibetan Medical Doctor..

No thank you.

Gee Alwayson, you are so thick. Just because someone points out that there is a possibility that you don't need a transmission (did Buddha get a transmission?), doesn't mean that they are saying that a transmission is absolutely not needed in any case. What's the matter, never learned to think outside of the box? TI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Shugden Dorje Shugdän is a Dharma Protector who is the manifestation of Je Tsongkhapa. Je Tsongkhapa appears as the Dharma Protector Dorje Shugdän to prevent his doctrine from degenerating.

Ok. I will spell it out for you: http://en.wikipedia....den_controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Shugden

Hi Dominicus I must say I am sure enjoying your posts. I am grateful that you are sharing your experiences. So many things you have said resonate with me deeply and experientially. The hole at the top of the head leading to space.. The tube going out of the back of the head (yes it is very long.. but if you pursue it, you do end up in outer space).. The collapse of the substrate consciousness down into the heart... and more.. Thank you. Not sure how you ended up posting this in a vedanta forum, but I am grateful just the same.. I thought I'd share my latest experience. About 5 or six months ago I noticed that while gazing out directly through the eyes and then reversing my point of view back into "looking into the vision stream at the watcher", I noticed that I could see light in there. It looked like a horizon of light-pink/white/light-blue clouds. It was always unmoving but most definately present. As the months went by I would focus on this area, backwards into my gaze but without any event. I thought perhaps I was actually looking back into the visual cortex of the brain so it didn't really sound like it was spiritually significant. However, that changed after learning about the Kati Crystal Secret Channel (or the atma nadi).. Last week, I decided to investigate it. I sat for a 1 hour session and just focused on going backwards into the visual line. At first, it was a little hard to maintain a clear focus on the light-scene, as is normal when starting out a meditation session. However, after about 40 minutes, I succeeded in continual sustained focus of attention on it (after the body dropped off). All of a sudden I found myself in a scene where I was just a point of view and the point of view was staring at a large cloud bank of light-pink light-blue clouds. I thought to myself "This feels familiar". Then it started to come back to me. This was a place where I existed before I was born. I just knew it to be true. I remembered being stuck there for a very long time, all alone. I remembered existing there, waiting for something or someone to let me out. In that place, I remember thinking that the cloud bank was actually a world or a plane and if I could only get into it, or over it I would have a change of scenery, a new life. I popped out of the meditation and contemplated the experience.. I went back into that place once again and looked around. I could only look up or sideways.. Yes, I remembered. It was a place where I existed before I was born. I knew that but I had forgotten about it. Now I remember again. It is uncanny. Have you ever tried to go backwards into your still gazing eyes into the scenery that is looking out? If so, did anything happen? Much appreciation. TI

Hi Simple Jack, Are you finished editing? To be fair? You have cut and pasted some quotes totally out of context. Why am I not surprised... Within the context of Malcom's post that I was referring to, he did say more about what Dzogchen is not, rather than what it is. I call it how I see it. Alwayson's statement came right out of left field. He does that often. He never explains what led him to that conclusion and comes out with cryptic statements like that one. Sort of like throwing out a dead fish to see if any seagulls will fight over it. Alwayson (and you) think(s) that one has to accept Malcolm as the greatest knowledge of Dzogchen, and anything less is a lack of desire to know the "real" Dzogchen. Well, let me get the toilet paper. There are other sources of Bon Dzogchen, which are not conveyed on a forum full of posturing, nit picking, insulting and intellectual acquisition. And, yes, Alwayson did insult a whole lot of people by looking down his nose at the Therevada teachings and the great book that Ajahn Brahm wrote, and the life he lives. The totally assanine thing about what Alwayson said is that he obviously does not know anything about the similarity between Dzogchen preliminary practices and Theravada practices. For example, in the practice of Togel, "The Fourth Method to Slow Down the Winds and Awareness" is similar to breath meditation, as prescribed by Ajahn Brahm. The underlying principle is the same: In a way, Alwayson has insulted Buddha, and the Anapansati, Alan Wallace, Shaila Catherine to name a few.. His arrogant statement has proven that he (and you because you support him) have an elitist attitude that there is only one way to climb the mountain. That is plain false. If Alwayson or you are such adept practitioners, you should be able to perform standard Anapanasati with ease. You should just breeze right on through, realize the jhanas, all 8 of them and become a non-returner.. it should be kintergarden. An exercise in practice. Piece of cake. Instead, it's much easier to say that there is no value in Therevada and dismiss it, isn't it? It is like Alan Wallace says. If you are extremely capable, you can read the introduction/view, realize Primordial Consciousness and then go off and practice non-meditation. But that is only for the select few. The rest of us have to work a bit harder. And, then, what do you do when you have to practice the preliminary practices because you didn't retain the Dzogchen transmission, like 99% of the initiates can't? You'll find yourself gazing into space, watching the breath, trying to realize the four magical winds and the "four fires give equal heat". You'll be wishing for the visions so you can dissolve them. You'll be playing snakes and ladders and losing. Further, Alwayson's oral explusive that I did not wish to be "initiated in Dzogchen" is mere conjecture. Again, Alwayson is making another statement that he has no evidence to support, nor can he, or does he ever back it up with proof. At no time did I ever say that I had no interest in receiving a transmission or being inititated into Dzogchen. Actually, I think I even wrote somewhere that I wouldn't mind getting a transmission.. but then C N Norbu visited me astrally one night and the clear golden vacuum inside my head became more pronounced over the course of several days, so although I have not formally received a transmission, I do wonder what that was.. Tell me, are you both Malcolm's groupies? TI

You've just insulted a whole lot people.. I think I liked it better when you weren't here. TI

One does not see through closed eyelids to play chess blindfolded. One visualizes the chess board in the head and then the person you are playing calls out their moves (or someone else calls out the moves). The hard part was learning how to think while maintaining the visualization. I was doing this when I was 16 yrs old. This is a fact. I too have seen through closed eyes. It is not uncommon. But everything looks kind of greeny. The principle is described in the "Zen and the Brain" book. If I recall correctly, it is using the pineal gland to see through things when the eyes have disconnected.. Actually, the mind/awareness can do that on it's own if properly trained. What? There is no self. You used the word "self". Why didn't you use the word "identity"? Not hip? TI

Hi Alwayson, You are right. The Kati Secret Channel has nothing to do with clairvoyant visions, clairaudience, premonitions, reading peoples' minds.. That is all third eye stuff and fairly elementary. You don't know what abilities I have, do don't go presuming that you have the same abilities. Can you play chess blindfolded? I am so grateful that here at the TTB, we are free and open to discuss practices, subtle anatomy and the spiritual path without the threat of punishment or reciprocity. Perhaps you should put me on "Ignore". TI

Hi Alwayson, I have some questions: First, lets get a proper definition of Trikaya: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trikaya Now, let us look at that link that C T posted, from Padmasambhava, where he says: http://www.fodian.net/world/zzgse.html If you cannot point to clarity with your finger, as you say, then what is the Dzogchen introduction of transmission of the view all about? You said "You cannot find clarity". Well perhaps you could tell us then, what the five obscurations or five hinderences are all about, what they cover up, and why releasing the five hinderences is not called "finding clarity". Keep in mind that once the five obscurations are gone, the alaya (substrate consciousness) is empty and luminous. It shines. And once that dissolves, the resultant state is also empty and luminous. The Clear Light is visible. It is visible when contrasted with the murky surroundings. It is visible through the Kati Secret Channel which comes from the heart to the eyes. It is knowable, can be pointed to, and is luminous too. That's the point.. TI

No that would not invalidate what he has written. Truth is where you find it regardless of source. The excerpt that Jax wrote on the Kati Crystal Secret Channel conforms to my experiences. Perhaps that is the difference here. You are going by book knowledge, hearsay, intellectual 'knowledge' whereas I am resonating from experience. I have never heard about Menngagde. What does that make me? You remind me of the ancient Catholic clergy, looking down long noses through reading spectacles, reading a long list of requisites to see if the person is qualified to speak the truth. Does she float? Much simpler to burn them at the stake, eh? TI

Hi, You should read the book "Daughter of Fire: A Diary of a Spiritual Training with a Sufi Master" http://www.amazon.com/Daughter-Fire-Spiritual-Training-Master/dp/0963457454 Yes, the guru really gave her a hard time, left her standing outside, took all her money.. I wouldn't have put up with him. The approach of dissolving the ego may work, but it is probably one of the most painful methods out there. Machiavelli. "The end justifies the means". Not.. TI

Hi Josama, This is an interesting topic for me. You say you have an entity. Have you ruled out external influincing factors such as environment, poor diet, life events, lack of fulfilling activities in your life? Did you go through a bad time, car accident or death of a loved one that marked the onset on the depression? Is there a familiy member that is continually putting you down or just downright mean to you all the time? Such events can open the door to entities, or 'bad' energy patterns, or whatever you'd like to call them. Just having bad thoughts is not an indication of entity possesion. In order to assess that, you have to distinguish between bad thoughts and good thoughts. I have both. But they are just thoughts. I've learned how to put enough space between "me" and my thoughts that I can see them for what they are. They are just thoughts. If you don't grasp or avert the thoughts, they dissolve away. And there doesn't seem to be any overabundance or either good or bad thoughts. I would imagine that most people have both good and bad thoughts. Morality is subjective. And often times, what is good today, is bad tomorrow. The method for dissolving thoughts, as explained by Eckhart Tolle, Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche and others is to neither avert nor grasp the thought, but put your attention directly on the thought, observing it calmly. If you don't feed the thought with energy (grasp or avert) but hold it in the light of awareness, the thought just simply dissolves back into the substrate consciousness (alaya). If you keep doing this practice for all thoughts (good or bad or indifferent), eventually they don't come back, or if they do, they just dissolve harmlessly back into the substrate consciousness. If your case is that you have an overabundance of "bad" thoughts, then I would learn about the pain body, and Eckhart Tolle's methods for dissolving the pain body. "Practising the Power of Now" on CD and "The Power of Now" is one place to start. You will learn to distinquish the pain body, put some space in between you and it, and eventually it will not affect you any more, and might even dissolve away permanently. You mentioned that it affects people around you. Well, yes. If you this massive depressive energy void that is sucking energy into it, it affects people around you. One method of countering the negativity that arises, like when you think "I'd like to kill that person", is to counter with a positive thought like "I hope that person realizes a full and wonderful life". When you wish people well, even if you don't sound it out loud, the people can sense it. We are all connected. If you are a spiritual practitioner and have honed your meditative skills, you could always take it a step further and understand that pure awareness, that which we are, is the best cure for entities/negative energy patterns/ill will. This is what Gurudeva says about it (the bolding is mine): link:http://ebooks.gutenberg.us/HimalayanAcademy/SacredHinduLiterature/mws/mws_ch-43.html In the book, Stilling the Mind by Alan Wallace, they talk about wrathful deities, entities etc.. It says that the best way to deal with such beings is to realize that they are all empty, nothing real. It is a high, top-down view, but it is very similar to what Gurudeva was saying. On a mudane level, entities exist. They are all around, only most people can't see them. If you want to play that game, then another piece of advice I have is to get your ishta, that which you believe is the most powerful being in the infinite universe, a representation of the divine (or what ever you'd like to call it) to help you release the entity. For me, this is Jesus. He has whisked away so many entities/demon-looking creatures for me that I am always grateful. On the other hand, if you focus on entities, give them power and believe that only someone else with enough power will save you, then I would suggest seeking someone else's help, like you are doing. Some books on Entities: http://www.amazon.com/Entity-Possession-Freeing-Negative-Influences/dp/0892816120 Samuel Sagan is a medical doctor that founded the Clairvision School and has practised entitiy extraction for many years. http://www.clairvision.org/books/entities/entities-parasites-of-the-body-of-energy-excerpts.html I will pray for you. TI

I guess you don't even read threads that you post in... http://thetaobums.co...ama-tsongkhapa/ link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_Tsongkhapa

Hi Simple Jack.. Now why did I think that you were going to copy and paste a shitload of quotes from Malcolm and DharmaWheel? Malcolm didn't reveal anything new, but a whole lot of what it isn't. You seem to be involved with assessing the fingers that point to the moon. It's a losing battle. Take a look at Chogyam Trungpa. Do you think he was realized? wiki: Yet, "From 1959-1963, by appointment of the Dalai Lama, Chögyam Trungpa served as the spiritual advisor for the Young Lamas Home School in Dalhousie, India.". As someone I am acquainted with quoted "Was trungpa realized? hell yes, the dalai lama and the karmapa pronounced him to be a living mahasiddha (they both said do as he says not as he does!) and he could make it rain, read minds, transmit the natural state to students, manifest various siddhis, wrote and taught dharma prolifically, the list goes on! " So, if you want to keep staring at the finger and judge where it's been by looking at the crustations between the skin cells, that's fine with me. But you are missing the moon. Perhaps this will give you a better understanding of the three kayas away from all the nonsense and nit-picking at DharmaWheel: http://www.kagyu.org/kagyulineage/buddhism/cul/cul02.php Anyway, please do me a favor. Please don't cut and paste reams of quotes from DharmaWheel. If I were you I would quit examining the dirty finger (you don't know where it's been) and spend more time meditating. (or non-meditating). All the best. TI

Hi Creation Thank you so much for finding these links. You wouldn't believe how they resonate with me.. In fact, I started to tingle when I first saw the links, even before I clicked on them.. The first link, about the sky gazing, is actually a practice that I've read about many times, and one that Alan Wallace teaches. It is found in the book called "Vivid Awareness" and also in "Stilling the Mind". I've spent years gazing at things. The second link, about focusing on the area below the crown and just above the ears, is something I have done lots of. Also, I've experienced the popping out of the head into outer space through the hole in that region at the top of the head.. wow... That area is actually the only place in my head which is silent. And when focusing on that area, it doesn't take long before intense energetics start happening. The third link: This part was very interesting: First time I hear that you don't need to bring the winds into the central channel in order to clear karmic blockages.. Actually, there was much more in those links that put some meaning behind the experiences that I've had.. I much appreciate those links, Creation. Thank you very very much. TI

Hi Simple Jack You seem to have come around to pee in the pool No disrespect, but just because Malcolm says something doesn't mean he is right. I realize you think Malcolm is the final word, and if he says "being" is neo-advaita then it must be so. I say, truth is where you find it, regardless of source. Let's examine this a bit further.. Does using the term "being" imply neo-advaita? These are quotes from "Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State" by CN Norbu: This is from Tenzin Rangyal Rinpoche: So, no offense, but are you saying that Malcolm is saying that C N Norbu and Tenzin Wangyal are neo-advaitists? And why did you present heresay evidence that Jackson Peterson was being naughty? Are you trying to discredit his exposition of the Map? Even if Jackson Peterson were a murderer, or rapist, does that invalidate what he has written? Did you not read about the group of murderers that Buddha helped to enlighten? Quite frankly I think your behaviour here is disgusting. Gossiping and attempting to discredit based on personal history, accurate or otherwise.. Is that how true Buddhists behave? Perhaps we should examine your past, your personal history and see if there is anything in there that we could use against you. I am grateful that Peterson wrote what he did. I do not care whether or not it conforms to Malcolm's opinions of 'purity'. TI

Hi I S, If by light appearing behind the eyes, you mean the light that comes out of the body, then this is the reply: No. It really manifests. The first time I experienced it, I was admiring a tree in the Spring time in the park. It was like my face had become a big hose, and it was shooting out a wide stream of brilliant clear liquid water or gas. The stream was about 2 feet wide and it extended horizontally outwards from my face to about 8 feet in front. It bubbled outwards, like someone had turned on a fire extinguisher from my face, except that instead of billowing out a thick cloud of whitish fire retardant, the cloud that billowed out was crystal clear blissful clarity. Everything in this cloud of 'water' was so brilliant and detailed that it made the surrounding air look dull and hazy. It is not a metaphor. It's a physical event. Is that what you meant by light-appearing-behind-the-eyes or are you talking about something else? TI

Hi Ish I am not an expert on Dzogchen. I don't even know if I've hit the Primordial Consciousness either. But I would venture to guess that you can have thoughts as long as you don't grasp or avert them. But if you have too many thoughts, you might be in 'baby' rigpa, not the true Primordial Consciousness or "mother rigpa". Some teachers don't distinquish between the two. They believe that first you train in 'baby rigpa' and that settles the substrate consciousness, or the alaya. Once that is perfectly still, there is a better chance of seeing through to 'mother rigpa' or as Alan Wallace would put it, breaking on through to the other side. The main non-meditation of Dzogchen is first to experience Primordial Consciousness and then the next task is to stay there, 24/7. All practices leading up to experiencing the view are preliminary practices. Training 'baby rigpa' is a preliminary practice. During my satori moments, I have noticed that there are still some thoughts that arise. The part that is silent is that there is no more monkey mind, or cloud of thoughts that occur. It is like being in clear crystal water, silent, and then a thought comes and it is very clear and clean. Really it is the conceptual monkey mind that is the chatterbox, that causes the satori moments to evaporate. It is like the "Map" says. Any kind of mental contraction causes the state to go away.. I apologize, you know, I don't have a consistent vocabulary when it comes to Dzogchen or rigpa.. I use words and concepts that I feel are correct for me, but perhaps they aren't correct for the classic teachings.. TI

Hi Aaron, I can see it is almost useless talking to you. You don't seem to get it. YES, you have discovered a black hole, that which most inauthentic and authentic psychics have realized. If there is no way to validate a premise, you can tell someone anything you'd like and they can neither prove nor disprove it. Like telling someone about a previous life that they may have had. You can tell them absolutely anything and they can't dispute it as there is no means to verify or validate it. So yes, you hold up your experience like the unfathomable black hole and then lord it over others in your condescending attitude and offer it as proof that your practice is authentic. You offer no evidence, nor demonstrate any behaviour that would support your "experience" other than the fact that you merely state it. You also seem to think that you are the only person who can think for themselves. You do realize that your statement has an implication that is not only grossly insulting but not logical. You say: "Obviously since my experience deviates from what you've been taught, it has to be false. Quit listening to the truth and discover it for yourself." You know, one of the first things I learned when I got my philosophy degree is that "truth is where you find it". Just because someone claims to be a such-and-such doesn't mean that what comes out of their mouth is the truth. And here you've resorted to that classic foolishness in an effort to claim authority. But you claim a false authority. Just because you think you've discovered 'emptiness' does not mean that everything that comes out of your mouth is true. I am not only the cumulation of "what I've been taught". And you are not only the result of your experiences. Do you think you are the only person who has had experiences? In order to think outside of the box, one must first have a box. The method that you 'teach', the method of "letting go" with which you have arrived at your experiences has been known by others who have had the experiences and they have said that that method is a pitfall, a downfall, not a valid method. For, if you had arrived at the final experience that those others whom have written about it have, you would have achieved the same results as they have. Therefore I conclude that your experience of emptiness is a delusion. There is a fine line between imagination, psychotic delusion and reality. Quit supporting the former and get with the latter.. TI P.S. And quit quoting me crap statements about political organizations, clergy or institutions. You may have a personal vendeta against organized anything, but I do not. There is value and non-value in every conglomerate.

Hi, :) Three smiles! I found this post yesterday. It explains this phenomenon of the clear waterous substance coming out of the face making the world seem bright, shiny, blissfull with the characteristic one taste of "me". !!! I have been calling these episodes "satori" moments.. link: http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3245880;jsessionid=9E16BAEDD9CE1D66EEF6C2FBE94229BD The bolding is mine. This is quite a revelation for me as different parts of that post relate to several experiences that I've had over the years. I feel very grateful that someone has actually posted that topic. TI