Tibetan_Ice

Hi Adept Did you know that you can increase your vividness, your clarity, your level of awareness? I didn't know that until I started studying Alan Wallace's breath meditation practices. http://podcasts.sbinstitute.com/spring2011/?p=111 Before knowing that it is possible and the technique, all images/visions were normal looking.. But after spending many meditations increasing vividness on the in breath and relaxing the body and letting go on the out breath, I gradually gained more control over the vividness. It really isn't that hard. It is kind of linked into will in a way. When you increase vividness and focus on the mind in the center of the head near the medulla, you can 'see' this kind of golden light surrounding everything and the space in your head opens up into a beautiful deep dark blue. You can see the thoughts with great clarity, like you were looking at them under a black light and they are luminescent. They mostly look like strings of color. The technique is also not to be too interested in them, or don't give them any energy or interest. If you do, you get sucked into them and you proliferate the conceptual mind. If you don't, and you retreat closer to the feeling of "I" in the head just around the location of the medulla, that's where you can sit and just watch. But you have to be able to withdraw from the thought, the content of the thought, back towards your "I" to the part that grasps the meaning or knowledge of the thought. In other words, you focus on the part that understands the meaning of the thought. It is very bright and clear, and has a golden light around it. Eventually, when you get stable in this condition, the thoughts and visions speed up because they arise and pass more quickly. But you just sit there, as close to the "I" as possible.. That is the only way I can describe.. Well, I suppose I change the language around and use different terminology, but hopefully you will get the idea. TI

Simple Jack, Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to explain all of this. TI

Well, there are more than 100 occurences of the word "self" on the linked page below, (and only 8 occurences of the word "identity"). So, until they change that definition, I will continue to use the word "self" despite being old and outdated.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatta TI

Hi Simple Jack, Your post has motivated me to learn about the five aggregates, or the skandhas.. and why they prove no self. However, after reading your quotes and comparing it to the wiki, it seems to me that order of skandas is different.. First comes, form, then sensation. Next, perception followed by mental formations. Lastly comes consciousness.. Is this not correct? link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skandha TI

Hi Adept, You know, all the experiences that I have had with the void were luminous, clear, bright.. Like being in a wide open space and there were very very distant faint 'stars'. After overcoming the fear of dying, one time I 'jumped in' and bounced back out. Other times, during a form of spinal breathing, I have found myself just hanging out there in the same vast dark space, but I could see the lower part of my being; it resembled a jelly fish of translucent light beams something like a bar magnet's polarity field.. I really wonder if this is the same void that you are getting to.. Or, perhaps it is another state.. But really, who knows.. Regardless, I'm wondering if maybe it may of some benefit for you to read the following quote from "Wisdom Wide and Deep" from Shaila Catherine because some of the characteristics that you have listed are addressed in it. Drats! I could not find a link to the quote, so I'm going to type this in.. On the bright side (pun intended), if you make an effort to enhance your clarity and vividness, perhaps you will start to see lights, nimittas, luminosity, and, as Shaila is saying, the state may indicate that you are on the threshold of the jhanas.. For a long time, while meditating, Shaila Catherine noted that everything brightened up during her breath meditations. And, she wrote in her book, it was only at the point where she started to see the bright light and focused on it that she made serious rapid progress into the jhanas.. Hopefully you will find some value in this post.. If not, that's ok too.. TI

Hi Ancient Health I'm curious.. I did not see any recommended practices on Dada Bhagwan's site.. What self-inquiry/meditaiton/devotion practices does he recommend after receiving Gnan Vidhi? http://realselfmysel...gnan-vidhi.html *You are very lucky to be in a country where you can get this transmission.. Now, I know that this is mainly a Taoist forum and as such, many would recommend Tai Chi, Qi Gong etc.. I have not spent much time on those for some reason.. I did a few months of Tai Chi and did Qi Gong for a while and the Micro Cosmic Orbit.. They are powerful practices in their own right and it would be wonderful if a person had realized chi first and actually incorporated moving the chi while performing the practices.. In my experience, the best exercises for opening up the etheric pathways, experiencing better health and less need for sleep, developing body mindfulness and charging/healing yourself are the Self Realization Fellowship's Energization Exercises By Yogananda Paramhansa Yogi. If you subscribe to their monthly lessons, they will be included.. Or, yup, they are on the web.. http://www.ananda.or...s/energization/ http://www.ananda.or...troduction-new/ http://www.crystalcl...ct.php?code=BEB TI

Hi Adept, When you are in that state, what do you see? What are you aware of? Do you see any lights? Is there vividness and luminosity? TI

Hi Simple Jack, So, when this web page says, are they wrong? http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/intro_bud.htm

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one!

Great stuff! I especially enjoyed seeing the footprint melted into the rock.

Hi Lucky You know, I took the Kunlun seminar and I would have to say that Red Phoenix is not solely a third eye practice. It also opens the crown.. More typical third eye practices are things like gazing, or moving one's attention just above the normal eye vision and looking out.. I quoted the summary statement.. and even included a link. Got a problem with that? Hint: when someone says their teachings are secret, there is usually a reason for it. Max's reason is that RP is traditionally taught in person along with the transmission. But Max isn't witholding any other practices. Why does Isha keep all of it's practices secret? Is that so they can sell them or is that to avoid scrutinization by others who know the classic kriya yogas? I look forward to hearing about what they say. Now, this is going to sound like monty python, but, which shambhavi are you practising? I found this practice from isha, and I wouldn't call it shambhavi, nor would I call it spinal breathing pranayama.. I don't quite know what to call it, other than some form of self hypnosis? http://www.ishafound...English-pdf.isa So, is that what you are calling shambhavi? But what about turning the eyes upwards and in, and fixing the gaze? Here is a classic interpretation of shambhavi mudra: From the book "Kundalini Tantra" by Swami Satyananda Saraswati: link: http://www.amazon.co...i/dp/8185787158 Here is also another rendition of Shambhavi mudra: Kriya Yoga: synthesis of a personal experience Author: Ennio Nimis link: http://www.bahaistud.../kriyayoga8.pdf You said: Actually, I practised Kriya Yoga for 6 years total. I'm not interested in it anymore. Right now I'm practising the preliminary practices of Dzogchen based on "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" and waiting for the two books I've ordered from Norbu to come in. Anyway, I hope to hear about your conversations with Max and Diane.. TI

Dreambliss Shaila Catherine, and the 1 hour video is a good introduction to breath meditation. Ajahn Brahm is very good too: "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond". Alan Wallace is very good too. http://www.sbinstitute.com/node/1715/podcast Alan Wallace has a PHD and has translated many books for various Buddhists. He is one smart dude. His books are exellent, espescially if you are above average intelligence and appreciate a larger vocabulary. Alan has some quided meditations, each will give you the insight needed to progress. What I appreciate most about Alan's teachings (which really come from the famous Buddhists like Padmasambava and the Dalai Lama, Dzogchen, awareness of awareness) is that his understanding goes all the way and he can convey his understanding and instructions easily and effectively. Further, all the podcasts are free and online.. I've been listening to them for months and practising them too.. TI

Save the world resources! Think small! Instead of genetically modifying our food sources to become larger, we should genetically shrink human beings down to be 1 inch tall. It might take a few generations to succeed, but think of the resources we could save! You could feed a whole family for one week with just one can of beans and a cracker. Cars would be 4 inches long.. A thimble full of gas would last a whole year.. Or better yet, they could run on a lithium battery forever.. You could build 100 houses with the same materials that it takes to build one house. Mud puddles would become spa resorts.. A roll of toilet paper would last a whole year. Smaller is better!

I'll bet Eric the half-a-bee wasn't afraid of dying...

Oh, I see Monty Python has come a calling..

Hi, I was not in bed. I was sitting.. I even said so: You know, I have had racing heart beat many times too.. Once, when I thought I was going to instantly combust (in 20 seconds of perfect posture and sambhavi).. I think the racing heart beat is a result of intense fear, not necessarily a precursor or identification of OBE..

Hi Lucky I see no difference between the fire up the spine and the kriya yoga that isha is teaching. Sure, he doesn't define kundalini in the conventional sense of the word, but third eye practice is going to awaken the kundalini. Just the other day I focused solely on the third eye with perfect posture and had flames going up the spine.. again.. The reason the Isha practices you are doing right now are not activating kundalini is because, according to this video, they don't start beginners off with "advanced" practices.. but you are definately heading for kundalini awakening unless you never get to the advanced lessons.. and don't be fooled. Listen to this: And there there is this: link: http://www.kavitachhibber.com/main/main.jsp?id=sadhguru-Jun2007 This is from Sadhguru himself: link: http://australia.innerengineering.com/pages/kundalini/ So you aren't going to ask Max? I'm really curious because I do do Kunlun with an active Kundalini and although I can overload in 5 seconds. I just do Kunlun when things are calm.. Have you never done any kriya yoga? TI

The first time I left my body was when I was 16. I was in a motorcylce accident during which I watched my body fly over a station wagon that I broadsided, from 40 or 50 feet away.. I would say that that was my first OBE.. TI

Hi Alwayson Nope, I leave my body all the time, have visited many astral planes and learned all about that when I was a teenager.. Robert Monroe, Paul Twitchell ... I don't even have to leave my body to astral project, I can just send my little marshmellow man, or even just punch through to the astral any time I want with sambhavi.. Also, 25 years ago I did a 3 1/2 hour meditation on the star above the crown and finally popped out of the top of my head. Ended up in a vast dark void with little faint stars in it. Felt like I was going to die. Quit. But a few years I overcame that fear and jumped in a few times.. No cigar. Try again.. TI

Hi Lucky That is quite an experience you had there. Thank you for posting it.. There is no me. There is no you. To heal you is to heal me. Usually, there are reasons for my actions, sometimes I'm not aware of them.. I was watching this video by Sadhguru called "introduction to kundalini yoga, third eye chakra meditation, kundalini yoga meditation beginners, " on youtube.. Here it is: and in the notes for that youtube video: What I don't understand is this: If you have Kunlun and Max, why do you need Sadhguru? And this is the big one.. Since you seem to have a dedicated practice to Kunlun (4 years) and have a close relationship to Max, why don't you ask Max about the dangers of mixing Kunlun and Kundalini? I'm sure everyone would love to hear the response.. TI

Hi Simple Jack.. Too bad you read that post.. Did you read this one? http://thetaobums.com/topic/23952-feels-like-death-shamatha-before-bed/ I wouldn't mind hearing what you have to say about that experience.. Again, thank you very much for posting and quoting.. It has taken a while to go through it all, and it has definately given me some insight. TI

Hi Simple Jack Hmmm.. Not sure what kun-gzhi is. Is this correct?: link: http://www.berzinarc..._impure_02.html Here is Alan Wallace's definition of the substrate conciousness. It sounds like they are the same. http://books.google....epage&q&f=false or this one: link: http://www.alanwalla...tates Essay.pdf Not really. My instructions are, if you have an object, turn your attention 180 degrees around and go back. You keep doing that until there is no more object.. This is the quote: The interesting quote that your presented (they are all interesting, but this is one I've thought for a long time) is this one: and this: The reason that interests me is because of the mistruths that Yogani at AYP has made up regarding his Deep Meditation (and TM).. but that is another story.. YES! Once the mind settles (shamatha), the whole mind collapses and receeds downwards towards the heart. You can see a peripheral shine of golden light shrink and become smaller and then flow downwards. Feels like you are about to die. That is where I am stuck.. However, that state was obtained by receeding into the subject. That one was obtained by letting be, with neither grasping or averting of thoughts.. Thank you for all the posts and quotes. I appreciate it. TI

Hi Simple Jack First of all, that was a comment to Gatito, he knows what I mean, not you. I don't have to justify my presence to anyone, and neither does Gatito. Secondly, it is clear to me that you don't know much about Dzogchen, for if you had you would know that Dzogchen is the practice of taking the mind as the subject of meditation. And, as such, one should turn the attention away from external objects and recede backwards, inwards to where the action is taking place. This is not an neo-Advaitan schtick.. everybody knows that neo-advaitans don't have any practices. First Shamata, then rigpa.. Further, after having had the repeated experience of Clear Light, and knowing that it exists between the subject and the object, between the outer perceptions and the conceptual mind (which is behind), the way I found that was while I was receding back into the "I". Actually, it is more like the Clear Light is super-imposed over everything, but it looked like it was in the middle of the stream of consciousness.. I think it comes out of the heart. Turning the attention towards the source was outlined in Alan Wallace's book "The Attention Revolution" as a viable practice to setting the mind the natural state, which is a precusor to the practice of Dzogchen. It was also the method used by Merrill-Wolf. He called it going back to the source. For an excellent discussion on the realization of rigpa, you might want to listen to this talk (and the meditation too): Listen for the word "inversion".. Caution: Alan Wallace uses that big bad word "Awareness".. and distinguishes between the subtrate consciousness and the Primordial state.. You might also want to check out Wallace's "Awarenes of Awareness" podcasts.. http://podcasts.sbinstitute.com/spring2011/?p=204 So you have a book on Dzogchen? I haven't seen that one. I will have to order it. Thanks. Does it support shamatha before rigpa? I have the following Dzogchen books: "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya - Dzogchen Practice of the Bon Tradition" - Gyaltsen "Vivid Awareness" -Khenpo Gangshar "Stilling the Mind" - Alan Wallace "Flight of the Garuda - The Dzogchen Tradition of Tibetan Buddhism" - Keith Dowman. How about if you read those books, I'll read yours and then we'll talk.. TI

Hi Dreambliss Well, you asked. I thought I should mention, that entire post was written elsewhere and then pasted in. There was nothing personally directed at you, although you seem to have taken some of the comments like they were. Perhaps I should have quoted the whole post. I guess you are too new at this to realize the difference between Patanjali's last three limbs of yoga (sustained directed attention leading to samadhi) and TM/Deep Meditation, which is "effortlessly letting the repetition of the mantra dissolve into stillness", and you probably didn't read or care about the first link that I posted. That is fine. You had asked what the "relaxation response" is. The Relaxation Response is what most people refer to as TM. I do not regard TM or Deep Meditation as true meditation in the historical sense; it is only a hypnotic tool to enable the practitioner to let go and take a dip into deep sleep. See: https://www.google.ca/search?q=tm+the+relaxation+response&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=&redir_esc=&ei=kXagUPLMI-b-iwLX9oDADQ True classic meditation involves pointing the attention to a single object, keeping it there (sustained attention which at first requires great effort) until eventually the subject and the object fuse together revealing bright light, joy, clarity and a form of superconsciousness. It does not matter what the object is, however, a mantra is not the best thing to use to do that because by generating the mantra, you are using the mind, which causes distubances.. Better is to choose a stationary object, like a visualization or something that you are not doing consciously, which does not entail an act of conscious volition like breathing. In another post you said: "Now I do ZaZen when I get up and try to do Deep Meditation using the mantas, "Release, Flow" or "(my real name) a Center of Consiousness." I suppose you can use the mantra in that way, but perhaps we should look at the mechanics of mantra repetition. Here is what I believe: The mantra is a tool that manifests energy, converts it into what ever is intended by the meaning of the mantra, and uses the psychic channels of the body to manifest the desired outcome. So, it goes without saying, and can be confirmed by most spiritual bodies' teachings, that more repetitions are better, and the more energy you can put into them, the better. Some Buddhist practices, like ngondro, have goals of reciting a mantra 100,000 time or more.. However, this is how it works.. Whenever you make a sound, out-loud, subvocally or purely mentally, the act starts at the lower tan tien (just below the navel). This is where the breath impulse manifests in the body. Next, the sounds of the mantra resonate at different parts of the body. For example, the "A" resonates at the lower tan tien just below the navel. "ooooohh" (as in "who" ) resonates at the throat. "M" resonates in the upper lip and nasal cavity. "NG" (as in "song") resonates at the top of the nasal cavity, right next to the third eye. So, when you say "AAAAAAUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMM" out loud, subvocally, or mentally, the body starts sending energy from the lower tan tien (AAAA) , up the connecting nerves to the throat (UUUU), then to the top of the nose (MMMM).. You are directing prana up the body into the third eye. Try it. Sense the vibrations and where they go. The short "A", known in Buddhist tummo practices, is always at the area just below the navel. When you say the mantra "HUM", first it starts at the mouth because of the "H", but rapidly drives straight to the lower tan tien, and then up to the third eye (the opening of the sushumna, where the ida and pingala collapse into the sushumna). In short, the mantra is creating and directing an energy flow. With meaning and intention, it becomes a powerful tool. If you look at some of the most powerful mantras, they all start with AUM or OM and end at the third eye. Like OM MANI PADME HUNG. Some, end back at the lower tan tien, like AUM NAMAH SHIVAYA. They all affect the energy flow in a different way. So, I'm not sure what effect using the mantra in the way that you are is going to produce. It seems to be a method of labelling the mental state in order to train the mind. But, it is not classic mantra repetition. Yes, I too fell into the AYP free lessons online, and after reading all of the lessons, decided to adopt them. AYP isn't all bad. The idea of maintaining a consistent daily routine is essential. After five years, I am still meditating two or three times a day, but at a minimum, two times a day. It wasn't till later that I discovered the misunderstanding of dhyana/dharana/samadhi at AYP. You see, I had been doing the effortless mantra for a few years, occasionally dipping into deep sleep and popping right back out (which is the most anyone ever does in TM). Even a study on TM practitioners called "Zen Brain" noted that the breathless state in experienced TM meditators lasted only a few seconds and occured every 96 seconds.. In Buddhist Anapanasati and the Jhanas/samadhi, practitioners can remain in jhanas/samadhis for hours at a time without bouncing out, without any effects of overload or distress. It is nourishing rather than adverse. What does that tell you? When I started to realize that there was no support or mention of effort to sustain attention at AYP, I started to examine the theory.. Faulty.. I did a meditation, and instead of releasing the mantra into silence, I just visualized the "I" (in the IAM mantra) and stuck to it with much effort. Well, everything got really bright and clear, filled with light and joy and I finally went into samadhi, a superconscious state of mind. Then I realized that TM/DM was not classic Patanjali, or classic meditation. Then I realized that AYP's DM and TM was misleading people. Thus it begain.. TI

Hi Jeff, Gatito's remark made me realize that I do not like to be associated with you. I have never met you in person, nor have I ever talked to you on the phone. A series of emails does not constitute much. (and to be quite frank, all though it was nice to have someone to rant about AYP to, and I did appreciate it at the time, I realize now that you were just trying to understand anger, or perhaps you were feeding off of it. ) So, adios amigos. TI