Tibetan_Ice

Jesus Christ is very much alive and functioning on all the planes in all the universes. Perhaps you could open your heart eye and find out for yourself?

Alan Wallace Dzogchen retreat. https://archive.org/details/IntroductionToDzogchenRetreatWithAlanWallace2012

Not enough info there. What are you being mindful of? Are you noting ( labeling thoughts, sensations etc) ? What posture do you use? Where did you get the practice? Which teacher?

What type of meditation were you doing?

Quite an interesting perspective on marrying the kundalini with the Theravada jhanas. http://vimuttidhamma.org/Vimuttidhamma%20From%20Chakra%20to%20Dhammachakra%20by%20Piyadhassi%20Bhikkhu.pdf Here are some excerpts from that book.

From that book:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=10479 Actually, it is a very good book. The reference to kundalini is more incidental than the main theme. The book walks through the basics, like the four noble truths, the noble eight fold path, the jhanas and ends with two chapters of the personal events during the final stages before enlightenment.

From "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" - Ajahn Brahm

Interesting. Do you know where the Brahma nadi starts and stops? While looking over the Beej website, I found this page, which states that there are thirteen chakras above sahasrara... http://kundalinisadhana.com/english-beejyoga/kundalini-index.htm (Hmmm. The link does not go straight to the page. The link is in Part2, hmmm. Try copying the link from the menu instead. Here goes..) http://kundalinisadhana.com/english-beejyoga/part-2-13.htm Therefore, there are destinations above the sahasrara, which, if the sushumna arches over the head and terminates beyond the eyebrows, are not part of the sushumna. But it can't be that cut and dried.. Well,... But again, the quote from the Beej website says "Two chakras, out of these, the lalna and Guru chakras open out the path for Brahma-Randhra. ". And if, according to your second quote, "The Brahma nadi is the void that connects to the Brahmarandhra, a void between the twin hemispheres of the brain, located in the Sahasrara chakra.", the brahmarandra is contained within the sahasrara or brain (same location), then the chakras above the sahasrara must be connected via some other formation. At this point it almost seems to me that the kundalini moves in the lower seven chakras and that the higher chakras above the crown require a more subtle form of access. Mark Griffin also talks about the Guru chakra, but the way he talks about it, it seems to be part of the sushumna... Here.. http://www.amazon.com/Deepen-Your-Practice-11-Radar-ebook/dp/B005RJKM66 He says: Ah, he also says: Interesting! And finally, Mark defines the location of nirvikalpa samadhi as the "upper realms of the sushumna"

More from the same book: Gee, neutrally watching the rising and falling of mental events sure sounds like the main Dzogchen practice to me.. resting in the natural state, letting what comes come, not grasping or pushing away... Neutral..

They did not look solid at all, they were more like looking at holograms.The faeries' bodies were covered with veils of translucent pinkish light that sparkled and glistened as they moved. Their wings were clear and looked like dragon fly wings. They were about 4 inches tall. I called the pinker one Ishta and the other Faedra. Faedra had a slight tinge of green near her back. When they moved they left a trail of sparkles which quickly disappeared. Little rainbow beings. When they talked, there was no physical sound yet what they said registered as thought. I would ask them to go help certain people whom needed healing.. I worked in a hospital at the time and I was always seeing sick people, so I kept them busy. Out of all the picture of faeries on Google, this looks most closely like them, although the colors were not the same.. And the wings were more rounded.. Actually, I wrote about that experience here.. http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/35409-what-is-the-longest-youve-ever-meditated/?p=558998

Well, there are. Why do you think that in phowa you eject your mind out of the top of your head? If you ever try the practice of moving attention around your body (practice for Dzogchen prep from Alan Wallace), you will see that there is a spot about 1 1/2 feet above the head that emits a downward flow of blissful energy. There is also a white star at that location. There are a few stars up there. I can see them right now as I write this... About 20+ years ago I did a meditation in which I was determined to find out what the star that everyone was talking about, which was supposed to be about a foot and a half above the center of the head. So I focused on that area with all my concentration and kept up intense concentration straight up at the location. After 3 1/2 hours I popped out of the top of my head. I found myself in a huge space which looked like outer space. I had the overwhelming feeling I was dying. Fear overtook me and I stopped. I remember that experience well because afte, I got up and walked to the kitchen for a drink of water, I saw two faeries come through the wall to meet me. I asked them what they wanted and they said that they were there to entertain me. I said that I didn't need any entertainment and asked them to leave. A while later I went back into the space, overcame my fear of dying and had some interesting experiences. I also made friends with the two faeries later on and had some fun with them. I also discovered that I could reach that same space through a kind of tunnel that I found at the upper back of the head.. I don't know if that space is the infinite space jhana, but I guess it could be..

Hi Bindi, From "Merging With Shiva": "When the kundalinî rises into the realms of pure actinicity, the pineal gland and pituitary center are activated. When these two centers are activated simultaneously, the forces of both of them merge, bringing man into nirvikalpa samâdhi " There are many teachings, Raja Yoga, Kriya Yoga where the activation of both of those centers is key to higher spiritual consciousness. Even in the Kunlun practice called the Red Phoenix level 1, you connect a path from between the eyebrows to the center of the head (pineal) and then up through the top of the crown. Mind you, not all schools are consistent. Some describe the third eye mechanism as being from the medulla to the point between the eyebrows and beyond. Yes, I agree. Remember, nirvikalpa samadhi is a state where breathing ceases and the personal identity (ego too) dissolves. It is a nondual state without subject or object. It is easy to transmit energetic states to other individuals and give experiences of bliss, clarity, visions, hypnotic trance etc, but those states are dual and have not dissolved the recipient's identity.If the recipient is not flat on the floor, has no sign of breath and does not look dead, then it probably isn't nirvikalpa. That is a good question. Intuitively, I would say that in order to transmit a state one must first have had practical experience with the state to the point of mastery. I would also think that by going into the state, it is also contagious to the people nearby. When Dhyanyogi had his NDE, when people would touch him, they would pass out.. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhyanyogi_Madhusudandas You said: The Papaji experience that you quoted from Ramana sounds like a high level dualistic experience to me where Ramana showed Papaji part of his psychic architecture, not nirvikalpa samadhi. I would say that it leads to it because of the feeling of death and the disintegration of the small self. I don't think they are bypassed, but I don't know for sure. The granthis are supposed to be where Ida and pingala wrap around the sushumna a few times, holding in the lock on the downward order of manifestation. I know that through spinal breathing, one can occupy the sushumna and enter into a vast space where there is no more body (only what looks like a jellyfish of light) but perhaps even in that state the knots are still functioning, albeit looser. I don't know much about the knots. I know that heat loosens them. Some books say that the knots are pierced by kundalini. Othe books say that the knots are dissolved into the sushumna/central channel. If you go by the model that nirvikalpa samadhi is a temporary state wherein there is no breath, no subject or object, that is like or is death, then you wouldn't want it to be permanent, would you? I believe, like Mark Griffin was saying, that the additional clarity and mental power that comes after experiencing nirvikalpa samadhi is the tool that is needed in order to realize the Self. I think that the sushumna already has prana in it and that kundalini is a concentrated form of prana. When the extra concentrated prana moves through the chakras, it gives them a boost, like charging them with superconsciousness. However, I don't think kundalini is a separate entity from the being that it is helping to give life to. I think it is more like wiring your oven to run on 220 volts instead of 120 volts. So, figuratively speaking, yes 220 volts can reside in the oven, but it is still an oven. You know, various times Ramana said that the Heart is not the physical heart, nor is it located in any physical location. Once one has reached the higher states of superconsciousness, you are hard pressed to find any body or physical landmark at all in order to gauge any type of relative physical location. The other idea that comes to mind is that the sushumna is capable of great expansion. It gets wider. It gets so big, from my experience, that you find yourself in a wide open space that resembles outer space and there is not much of anything in there, just the very faint twinkling of stars in the distant background. However, whenever the love/heart chakra is activated, a different kind of space opens up that is filled with other beings, places and scenes. There is a characteristic bright golden light which emanates and a sense of purity, or sacredness. If I was at Ramana's level I would be in a better position to know if he is right (or not) about the shape of the sushumna. I don't think I am at his level.. Yesterday I came across this book: http://vimuttidhamma.org/Vimuttidhamma%20From%20Chakra%20to%20Dhammachakra%20by%20Piyadhassi%20Bhikkhu.pdf I think you might enjoy it. It contains pictures of the chakras and how they are mapped to the jhanas. The pictures show the formless realms above the crown, much like what Mark Griffin was talking about (that the nirvikalpa bindu is located above the crown in the third bindu). The book has also mapped the ascent of kundalini and explains how kundalini will only take you to the fourth jhana. Ramana did say that kundalini won't get you Self-realized, didn't he? If you do a search in that book for kundalini, try doing a search for "ku". Due to the fonts that are used, a search for "kundalini" brings up nothing (on my iPad mini) Here is an excerpt: He says that in order to reach the first jhana, one activates the kundalini. As one progresses to the second, third and fourth jhanas, the kundalini rises up to the higher chakras. However, in this model, the sushumna goes straight up and does not curve back down to the heart. There are points above the crown corresponding to the formless realms. So, although it is mentioned many times that you don't need to master the formless realms in order to gain enlightenment, if your want to master them you have to pierce or go beyond the sahasrara.

Hi Bindi, Perhaps this will answer some of your questions: From "Kundalini Tantra" by Swami Satyananda Saraswati Another source, from Mark Griffin, is this. http://www.amazon.com/kindle/dp/B00EXS2PSA/ref=rdr_kindle_ext_eos_detail This very short transcript of the "Samadhis Nirvikalpa" intensive contains quite a bit of detail about the mechanics of the Samadhis including nirvikalpa samadhi. I highly recommend obtaining the whole text.. Here is an excerpt: So, again, we see that nirvikalpa is not enlightenment but a gateway to the Self. Also, here is an architecture from Mark Griffin (same book). Again, this excerpt shows that perhaps the sushumna does not terminate at the brow.. Or perhaps it does but the sushumna contains a time and space warp? Sorry not to have answered your specific questions (although these quotes do answer some..), I will try to when I get a chance.

Nah, just leave it to Lexx

Well, just for the halibut... Fish are quite smart. Comes from hanging around in schools.

Hi Bindi, It is important to realize that in the second quote, namely: “finally working out the various karmic binds or holds in the lower odic force field with the help of the guru, he attains complete Self Realization, or nirvikalpa samadhi”, Gurudeva is talking about the final result. He is not saying that in order to experience nirvikalpa samadhi one must first remove all bonds or holds permanently.. he is saying that in order to attain complete Self Realization one must work out the various karmic binds (fetters). Complete Self Realization, which has a sense of permanency, is the result of that. But that is not to say that the karmic binds or holds cannot be temporarily loosened to let the practitioner experience temporary nirvikalpa samadhi. The karmic binds can be set aside temporarily in order to experience nirvikalpa samadhi. That is the beauty of it and it explains quite a bit. Like, when Yogananda's guru touches him on the forehead, his breath is sucked out of his body and his awareness/consciousness expands to encompass the whole worldly scene. That was a temporary taste. Yogananda could not do that by himself but only with the help of the guru. The way I see it is this way. Nirvikalpa Samadhi is transferable, but only on a temporary basis. Through diksha, shaktipat, a touch to the forehead bringing the pineal and pituitary in sync, the recipient's consciousness is brought into the central channel, sushumna where he/she experiences some form of samadhi, nirvikalpa samadhi included depending on how deep and long the experience goes. Or, the practitioner can engage in various practices such as alternate nostril breath pranayama, kriya spinal breathing or even tummo to balance Ida and pingala and dissolve them into the central channel. For example, the heat from the tummo helps to loosen the granthis and one can temporarily experience occupying the central channel without hinderances. You can also occupy the central channel by balancing the left and right air flows (making the breath through both nostrils of even flow) then focusing at the third eye and sucking back into the center of the head where the pineal gland is. The effect is that it feels like you are quickly progressing through layers of consciousness, going into deeper and finer levels. If you continue, past the visions and lights that then occur and keep sucking backwards down into your heart area, you will feel like you are going to die. Why not? I think it happens all the time with guidance, by fluke, by practice or just naturally. But it doesn't seem to be permanent. (And it would be the three granthis, not two, wouldn't it?). Ok, let's see how Gurudeva defines nirvikalpa samadhi.. From "Merging With Shiva" So, it sounds like nirvikalpa samadhi is not only the method but the goal as well, being that it is Self Realization. I think that not all that was written about Sri Ramana is true. Ramana wasn't big on formal methods, wasn't a scholar nor an intellectual. But lots of people tried to make him seem as such, or at least needed some kind of intellectual conceptualization to pin onto him. If Ramana had the same definition, that Self Realization was Nirvikalpa Samadhi (as Gurudeva wrote), he would have still said "don't seek the state, seek the Self".

Luminosity is not "light"! From Ju Mipham Namgyal’s Way of the Realized Old Dogs Advice that Points Out The Essence of Mind, Called “A Lamp That Dispels Darkness” By Tony Duff: Further, your suggestion to "notice" and "hang" is a form of grasping.

Lots of good discussion about the content of dreams, but what about the architecture and the mechanisms at play? Assuming that Daskalos is correct when he says that dreams don't exist, that they are actually manifestations in the psychical planes or noetical planes, what are the implications? The tool of dreams is visualization. In the psychical planes (astral planes) visualization is the tool that is used to create your environment. In those planes, you can create anything you wish. You can materialize a house, a splendid garden, water fountains, anything you'd like. You can also visit other beings whom have done the same. You can spend some time manifesting different environments if you so wished. However, it requires the ability to visualize. People without this ability, whom have never developed it fall victim to their subconscious habits and impressions when they visit the astral planes. The subconscious throws up the visualizations based on what most imprinted in it during the day or recent past. And, not having much control over their conscious mind, some people cannot bring back the correct cognizance of the events from the astral so the experiences appear as nonsensical "dreams" or nightmares.. Imagine going to a plane where what you visualize becomes what you see, taste, hear, smell and feel. And, if you don't visualize consciously (never practiced or mastered visualization), what ever is manifested is what your subconscious is throwing out there. Or, perhaps you experience what some other being is manifesting. The key then becomes to develop your powers of visualization during the waking hours so that you can gain a foothold in the "dreaming hours". There is much truth in that.

Atkins was right.

Edgar Cayce: http://www.edgarcayce.org/are/spiritualGrowth.aspx?id=2078 Daskalos: http://www.thewhale.us/chapters/

Hi Bindi, I must say, what an interesting thread. Your clear-headed-ness and mental perspicacity are a joy to watch in action! I enjoy this thread because it gives me the opportunity to review the knowledge that I've acquired over the years. Nirvikalpa samadhi is not a dead end. It is a doorway that leads to a goal. From my understanding, one must go through that doorway repeatedly in order to clear the samskaras, vasanas, hinderences and fetters of maya and samsara. Forgive me if I include a few Buddhist terms or ideas in this post as in that wanderling link you posted, it compared the formless jhanas to nirvikalpa samadhi, saying that they are pretty much the same thing. This has led me to study and compare the aspects which liberate. It seems that one or a few experiences of nirvikalpa samadhi does not remove the samskaras or vasanas nor does one or a few experiences of the jhanas remove the hinderences or fetters. However, in some texts it does say that those practices develop the "divine eye" or "third eye" and with the elevated ability one is then in a position to enter the higher states and then burn or eliminate the obstacles. What did Yogananda write about nirvikalpa samadhi? In "Autobiography of a Yogi" he calls it nirbikalpa... He wrote: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_9?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=yogananda+autobiography+of+a+yogi&sprefix=Yogananda%2Cstripbooks%2C211 However, in that book there is no mention of how to remove the samskaras or vasanas without having to deal with karma. One has to "work out one's karma" before they can progress to the higher realms.. So, in summation, the divine eye is the gate of nirbikalpa samadhi and gurus can help you through the gate, but you can't stay in the higher state unless you work out your karma. But, you can get a taste The next major player is Gurudeva. Let's look at his "nirvikalpa samadhi" and how it is used to bring one to enlightenment.. In "Merging With Shiva" it says: https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/merging-with-siva The term "nirvikalpa" is used frequently in that book, so frequently that it is best to download the free pdf (or your choice of formats) and then do a search or read the whole book. The main idea here is that nirvikalpa samadhi is both the doorway and the goal where sustained repeated efforts to remain in nirvikalpa samadhi is the key. Also note the reference to the development of the third eye. (Divine eye). Also, the removal of the three fetters, karma, anava and maya is part of the equation. It is not really "removal" but making them so that they no longer bind, which is what the whole raja yoga teaching is about. Next, back to the concept that nirvikalpa samadhi is like or similar to the higher jhanas. From The wanderling link: http://the-wanderling.com/nirvakalpa.html I've read in many Buddhist writings that the jhanas don't make you enlightened. It is similar to what the Hindu Gurus are saying, yet a bit different. Both seem to develop the third eye (divine eye) and then use it to examine reality and see through the illusion. Staying in nirvikalpa samadhic states or the formless jhanas are not enough. There is still the elimination of the fetters to be done. As the Venerable Henepola Gunaratana states in his book called "Beyond Mindfulness in Plain English": http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Mindfulness-Plain-English-Introductory-ebook/dp/B003X27ORE So, Bindi, you are correct in expressing doubt that nirvikalpa samadhi is all it takes to become enlightened.

ChiForce, You may want to check this out about lucid dreaming and the theory behind it. According to Daskalos, as you develop your self-awareness of your current day personality it will affect your abilities to become self-aware not only in your dreams, but in the psychical and noetic planes as well. http://www.researchersoftruth.org/what-are-dreams

https://soundcloud.com/buddhistgeeks/a-pragmatists-take-on-the-powers Daniel Ingram on the Powers..

Recent interview: http://meaningoflife.tv/videos/34100