Tibetan_Ice

Hi Gatito No need for apologies.. You were poking fun and you poked me in the anti-ayp eye. Just wanted to make sure you don't poke me like that again. Someone might get the wrong impression, that I still belong to AYP.. I would never report you to the moderators because I wouldn't want to see you banned. Besides, I believe in freedom of speech and expression, so long as it is not downright hate-mongering, slander or spreading ignorance. In reality, every counter to any point of view is a form of insult, isn't it? It's just a matter of degrees and choice of words. I would like you to know that I enjoy your posts and the fact that you have points of view that you are willing to stand up for. I like people with backbone. TI

Hi Gatito, Jeff is an interesting case, isn't he? He has no formal practice, just plays with energy and often times he comes out with statements that make him appear like he has actually experienced it (like nirvikalpa samadhi). But if you press him for clarification you soon discover that his display is quite different from his experience.. Perhaps one day he will attempt to follow a disciplined routine instead of just playing with energy, or not.. His favorite question seems to be "Do you ever get angry?", because he claims that he never gets mad.. (ever since the lobotomy... ha ha ... kidding..). Thanks for the clarification and apology. Sometimes humour doesn't work in written text. I'm not masochistic, but then again, maybe you could call it that, at least towards the mind. I would prefer to call it the "one taste". In Shaila Catherine's book called "Wisdom Wide and Deep", part of her suggested practices is to closely examine the sensations of pleasure and pain. When you do that, you discover that pleasure has a seed of pain in it, and pain has a seed of pleasure in it. And, when you break all sensations down to their constituent parts, they start to all feel the same. It is a great practice, especially when getting your teeth cleaned or visiting the dentist. A while ago, I found the same kind of thing on a youtube video by Shinzen Young.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkI4S9IqrXI&feature=relmfu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zz_BfTdp4E&feature=relmfu TI

Hi Dreambliss, Let me guess, you decided to add spinal breathing to your routine of deep meditation and now you are overloaded? Here are some links and quotes about what I discovered about AYP.. as requested. http://thetaobums.com/topic/21469-patanjalis-sutras-and-samyama-questions/ http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Meditation-Pathway-Personal-Freedom/product-reviews/097646554X/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_one?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0 This next post is a sarcastic reply to my comments on Amazon, and my reply follows. 8604 said: Beware of what you are calling meditation. The "relaxation response" is not meditation in my books. It is a form of cat napping which leads to dullness and laxtiy. Most Buddhists will call this laxity and dullness and say that it can stilt your intelligence. Apparently you don't read the AYP forum.. You should. Here is a post on the AYP forum from Mikiji, an authentic TM instructor. The topic is about whether or not Deep Meditation is TM. http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12026 There is much more in this discussion, but eventually Yogani replies: So there you have it. Yogani disregards the fact that a TM instructor is telling him that AYP is lacking in the proper method of relaying the correct practice, that it must be taught in person, and that the technique must continually checked because it is very easy for the practitioner to adopt incorrect practice.. Instead, Yogani says that that disadvantage of AYP is overshadowed by the fact that the format of AYP, being a website accessible to millions, makes up for it. In other words, it is ok to disseminate faulty information as long as you can do it to millions of people.. That makes it right or better. Gee, if I would have had a teacher in person, maybe I wouldn't have done incorrect DM practice for 4 1/2.. (as Yogani pointed out to me.) And, did you catch that part about AYP being created 10 years ago? Do you really want to practice a "scientific invention" that consists of a mish mash of various practices, training in laxity, that eventually lead to overload and the inability to continue? This is a quote from Yogani in that same post: So, has Yogani denied that Deep Meditation is TM? He claims that Deep Meditation did not come from a TM teacher.. Do you know what happens when you build a car with pieces from various makes? If you have a caburetor from Ford, an engine block from Kia, an exhaust from BMW, brakes from Chev, sure, you might get something that runs and will take you from a to b. But there is no warranty, no dealer will want to fix it and it could be dangerous to drive. AYP is like that. But yes, feel free to do what you want. Isn't your time more precious than money? And if you do decide to follow AYP, be prepared for the following: 1) Any significant and insignificant experience that you have will be called "scenery" 2) If you post any post which does not support the AYP, deemed over-critical or not beneficial by the modertors, your post will be censored. If you persist in posting questions which are not beneficial to the AYP perspective, you will be banned. Freedom of speech is not respected at AYP, nor is AYP interested in universal Yoga or universal truth. It's AYP yoga or the highway. 3) After an arbitray amount of time (you have to find out for yourself because the web policy is too vaugue, on purpose), you will not be able to edit or delete your posts. 4) You will mostly find people who regurgitate the teachings on AYP (unless the person is a newcomer and doesn't realize the "secret" rules). This is also due to the heavy handed moderation. 5) Any time an intelligent, knowledgable poster starts to gain too much momentum and influence in the forum yet have divergent views, they will mysteriously disappear and never come back. (banned? ) 6) If you think (like AYP) that TM or Deep Meditation is related to Patanjali's last three limbs of yoga or Patanjali's samyama, think again. Take a closer look. Learn what vitakka and vicara mean, directed attention and sustained attention (not dissolving attention as is the TM/DM way). If you are going to learn TM or Deep Meditation, I suggest you do some research on it first. It is interesting that many web articles on the adverse effects of TM indicated that after 4 or 5 years, many TM teachers and practitioners develop some form of psychosis or mental ailment. Coupled with Kriya practices and other practices 'borrowed' from a dizzying array of sources, this result is probably realized sooner.. I would suggest that if you want to learn proper meditation, look into Buddhist Breath meditation, anapanasati.. Shaila Catherine's books, Alan Wallace, Ajahn Brahm, are all excellent. After all, Buddha got enlightened, didn't he? The advantage with living in these modern times is that we have the internet at our disposal, and it is now easy to research, compare and become informed. TI

Hi Dreambliss I used to channel when I was a teenager. I did not enjoy it. Although it seemed to be accurate to the people that I was channeling for, there was always a nagging doubt and feeling that I was just making it up. About 25 years ago, I met Jesus in a church.. Long story. After that experience, for months after, I had strange experiences. For example, one night after 'praying for two hours' I went to bed. In my mind's eye a small boy floated up next to me in bed. I saw him and then asked him, "who are you?". He said "what does it matter?" So, I said, "I bind you in the name of Jesus Christ". At that moment the little boy disappeared and I found myself looking at some kind of large reptile face, with long white teeth. It resembled an aligator. Then, it turned and was whisked away. For years after, whenever I would see a face or 'being' during meditation, I would either "pray the blood of Jesus" over it or "bind you in the name of Jesus Christ". Most of the time, the face or being would change into something else and then disappear. Sometimes, though, they would not. That is how I could tell good beings from bad spirits. One time I did a full crystal layout while lying down on the living room floor (silk sheet). I was interrupted by a kind of a white man form that appeared on the left side of my face in my mind space. I asked it who it was and it said that it was my guide. So, I asked it to show me a previous life.. Long story short, through a series of meditations with the full crystal layout and my guide, I discovered four of my "previous lives". Whether or not they are true, well, they sure feel true and they explain some present day conditions and influences, but how do you really verify it? After spending quite a lot of time with various meditations, meeting spirits, exploring other planes, I concluded that just because someone is dead or a spirit doesn't make them enlightened or super intelligent. The higher beings feel like they are higher. They emit great amounts of love and pure energies. When you finally meet one, you will know by your reaction. If you are not getting the reaction, it is mostly likely some entity or spirit that is going to suck your energies or waste your time. I've seen two angels, pure white light beings that emitted so much love that it made me cry.. That was when my desire to meet God was so intense that I was using the mantra like a prayer, praying from my heart. I have learned how to distinguish mind-created imagination and thoughts from the real psychic intuitions. The real psychic phenomenon occurs without a seed thought from the mind. If you think of something and then some other thing comes to mind, it is a thought that you created. If something comes to you out of the blue, in the higher clearer part of the mental space, it is accurate. It has taken me years of examining the process to determine this. Usually, if it is a mental creation, the thought will be thick or have a whitish light texture to it. If, on the other hand, it is very clear, crisp, transparent and luminous, and comes from above the lower mental arena of thoughts, it is the real thing. There are many planes and beings all around us all of the time. It is shocking. There is no privacy. At all. It is very interesting to explore them, but it is also a great waste of time. They seem to go on forever. However, it is kind of handy being able to detect when someone is scrying at you or sending you negative energy. You have to know how to protect yourself, or have a high being protect you (like Jesus) once you start shining your light brightly. It attracts all kinds of stuff. One good book on this subject is "Awakening the Third Eye" by Samuel Sagan. However, there are lots of books on astral travel (Robert Monroe, Eckankar, Edgar Cayce) around. For discerning good and bad spirits and entities, you can also use "If you are not from the highest most purist light, then please leave". But you have to believe in what you are saying and intending. Better to pick a powerful universal person or saint to ask for protection from.. The more people believe in a thought-form, the stronger it is. I have no interest these days in exploring the astral planes or psychic phenomenon anymore. I'm just incorporating it in my every day life when it happens.. I also have no interest in becoming anyone's teacher, I'm still a student. I guess I feel happy to just give out some pointers and think I've actually helped someone along the way.. This is probably a self-deception. The universe is living it's own life and we are just specs being blown around by it. One last thing, using crystals, like amethyst, garnet, tourmaline, quartz, emerald, moldavite, rose quartz, etc really helped to get the third eye going. And always remember to put a black stone at your feet to ground the energies and encase you. If you get into crystals, learn as much as you can before trying them out. Also, the only way to get a decent meditation in, is to simply ignore the faces and entities that come calling. Oh, and if your kundalini awakens, you will see visions of the sexiest, most attractive woman that you have ever met in your life. She will dance for your, visit you constantly and entice you. It is so great and seductive. It is just a phase and I think you have to get through it to the point where it no longer interests you. It took me a few years to get over that. Well, maybe I"m not totally free of that yet.. There are many traps and unexplained phenomenon when you get into psychic/astral/etheric/spiritual practices.. It is a lot of fun and at the same time a great waste of time. One rule of thumb, never get stuck on anything for too long. Never lose sight of your goal, which is to know the truth of existence. To know God.. Last bit of advice. Your mind is not your friend. Learn to watch it. Don't let it control you. Become the master not the victim. Your mind is what is keeping the realization of what lies beyond away. Don't always focus on forms, focus on the space that surrounds the forms. Don't always focus on thoughts, focus on the larger space that encompasses the thoughts. Don't always look out, look back at the 'you' that is watching. There lies the key. Good luck. TI

Hi Lucky Don't get all confused now.. My feelings were not hurt. I have no interest in being insulted. I detected an abusive attitude in your posts/insults. Especially in the PM that you sent me.. remember? You titled it "HEY YOU!" I thought there were forum rules about insulting people.. Are you in danger of being banned here? Hey, if I could I'd insult you too! It's fun! It creates energy which, when dissolved by direct attention, produces great bliss. And what a contradiction that is. Did you actually study his teachings? Sadguru is shouting and selling "bliss, bliss, bliss" himself. Have a look at this video. In it, the Sadguru is saying that you have to enhance your perception with bliss from the pineal gland in order to have something more happen. He himself is pushing bliss. So, it is clear you don't understand what he is selling. This is no doubt, how to add something to you, which is contrary to most teachings, including Dzogchen, which strip off the layers of the onion (or settle them down until they become transparent). And then, after all you've supported the maxim that it is wrong to heal anyone, in this next video, Sadguru is saying that sambhavi will activate the expression of your bliss body and that it will heal all your ailments! But he never tells you how. You have to buy that... It's a very bad sign when there is no consistency in the teachings. And, selling sambhavi as a healing tool that performs miracles is quite a sales pitch, isn't it? Note: I have been performing sambhavi during my twice daily meditations for 5 years now. Every day. So I am very familiar with the practice, and the light, and the bliss, and the visions, and the kundalini... First time I hear that it heals all your ailments though.. Sorry, didn't you say that Max was breeding a bevy of bliss bunnies with kunlun? Perhaps that's not how you meant it but it appeared to me to discredit Max and his Kunlun. It's a funny world that we live in. If you kill someone, you go to jail. If you kill someone in war-time, you become a hero. So you see, you can be both at the same time. It's all a matter of perception. However, if it is true that he kept the death of his wife secret for nearly a year before he told her family, that is borderline psycho. So how much has it cost you to take part in the Isha initiative? You know, you may have spent a few hours writing your abusive responses, but I also spent 3 or 4 hours watching Sadguru's youtube videos. I was happy in the fact that you had found the true guru, that which is inside of everyone. I was not happy to meet Sadguru and his sales pitches, stupid stories and underhanded marketing techniques. But really, who cares? Who cares if you gain bliss from an authentic guru, a charlatan, an avatar or by placebo? Isn't the realization what counts, not the source? Fair enough. But your behaviour should have shown the bliss that you had achieved, shoudn't it have? I bought "The Crystal and the Way of Light" back in Sept, 2011. I'm trying to find "The Crystal Cave" nowadays. "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" is pretty good too. My point was that you said Dzogchen is not a practice and I am pointing out that it is definately a practice, a series of practices. Once one realizes rigpa, the goal is to remain in it 24/7. That is some practice. It is not "doing nothing" as you said. Nor is it the futility of practice that Tony Parsons says. What's the matter? Can't stand peace or silence? Sometimes it speaks louder than words. TI

Hi Dwai, Gee, you are much too modest.. I can see where you are coming from, after reading this article on "Consciousness, Cosmology, and Science: An Advaitic Analysis" from your website: link: http://www.medhajournal.com/resident-philosopher/951-consciousness-cosmology-and-science-an-advaitic-analysis.html So, yes, there is no distinction between consciousness and awareness in that article.. The word "awareness" isn't used. And, it is interesting that in that quote, he says that "no one can picture or visualize consciousness", yet, it is the easiest thing in the world to know that one is conscious. I'll quit bothering you.. Thanks for the discussion. All the best.. TI

Hi Gatito, That is quite an insult there. If you knew me at all, or read any of my lengthy posts of the crap you will find at AYP, you would see that I have dismantled AYP and will continue doing so because of their misguided "guru" and faulty yogic scientific inventions. But you knew that, you are just trying to insult me. Well, you've succeeded. I'm actually enjoying the energies.. Pleasure and pain kind of feel the same to me nowadays... You know, I don't recall insulting you directly so there must be something that I've posted that you disagree with, and now, without the courage to confront me directly, you've taken to insulting me in other threads. Was it the neo-advaita comments about Tony Parson's "no need to practice"? Do you consider yourself a neo-advaitan? Do you have any practices at all? Or do you just visit gurus hoping that it will rub off on you? And then, what are doing in a Buddhist thread? Are you shopping around for practices? TI

Hi Gatito, Conscience in French, means Conscience in English, which is the little voice in your head that says "Bad Gatito... shouldn't have done that". But "Conscience" in French is also "to know", like "je suis content de faire ton conscience" , c'est la meme chose, comme connaitre. Est'ce que tu parles Francais, Gatito? TI

Hi Lucky7Strikes, When I responded to your Sadhguru post, you insulted me, investigated my history, attacked Buddhism, attacked Max and was generally quite disrespectful. I have no interest in being insulted, nor do I have any interest in spending hours and hours debating, destroying egos or supporting egos. You presented a guru, I examined him and gave my opinion and discoveries. For every thesis there is an equal and opposite. Antithesis. These two combine to produce another thesis. It is endless. It's a mind game. I am more interested in how the true guru you have found has turned your life around and changed your character.. Do you control your mind or does it control you? I'm really routing for you. TI PS. You said "Because Dzogchen is precisely the path of no practice, no method." Perhaps you'd like to learn more about the practice of Dzogchen: link: http://www.berzinarc...itation_02.html The book Stilling the Mind is also quite good: http://www.amazon.com/Stilling-Mind-Shamatha-Teachings-Lingpas/dp/0861716906#_ And this is what the Dalai Lama says: http://books.google.ca/books?id=4HqLxJRN6MUC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Hi Dwai Well now you have me wondering. You are saying that the entire book by Nisargadatta is misleading because Nisargadatta wouldn't have distinquished between consciousness and awaress? Did you read the quotes from "I AM THAT" that I posted previously in this thread? Yes, Nisargadatta does say that awareness is part of consciousness, but it sure sounded like consciousness does not stand on it's own like awareness can. So, who then wrote the response by M: (Maharishi Nisargadatta)? It sounded pretty clear to me. In fact, you have just said that the term "chitta" in Sanskrit is "consciousness". Yet, when I look that term up at this link, it says that the definition of chitta is "the organ (part) of mind responsible for memory. See antakarana, ahankara, buddhi, manas." http://www.advaita.org.uk/sanskrit/terms_cd.htm And then, you have said that chaitanya is "being aware or conscious".. In that same link it says that chaitanya is "consciousness, universal soul or spirit." And did the author have knowledge of the terms, and did Nisargadatta? Here is another quote from "I AM THAT": So it would seem that Nisargadatta has drawn many distinctions in these quotes.. Are they not accurate? Yes, you've identified one problem with the study of objectless consciousness.. Semantics.. We are probably both wasting our precious time. The reason that I am very interested in all of this is because many times, in the morning, I find myself lying in bed and all that I am aware of is a tiny point that simply feels like 'me'. There are no thoughts, no visions, nothing to do or see. It is a very simple state. Then, my alarm goes off and then everything whooshes by and reality is created once again. I can detect thoughts, the sensations of the body, see the bedroom.. I was thinking that the tiny point that feels like 'me' could be called awareness, and that from it consciousness came back to life and the world appeared.. For what it is worth, that tiny point has no object, at least there is no witness, the only thing it has is the 'feeling of me'. I was reading in some Buddhist texts that the eighth level of consciousness is the one before the last level; the eighth level is the level of consciousness that contains the 'feeling of self'. I was wondering if that is the state of the tiny point.. It is not a big deal. It is very hard to describe experiences in words, especially hard with people whom have different vocabularies and culture.. I'm not sure I like the idea that the book "I AM THAT" may be invalid. TI

Hi GP, Old chum? Isn't that a kind of fish? Anyway, I thought I would mention, since I've seen you post a few email addresses directly on the forum. Posting an email address inside a topic on a forum is setting that address up to receive tons of spam. Spammers have programs, like spiders or bots and other search tools that they use to continually scan the net for email addresses. Once found, the email addresses are added to lists and the newfound address receives tons of spam. If you really need to post an email address in a plain body of text, on a web page or in some document on the net, you can try to disguise the email address by putting in spaces or replacing the @ with something like "X" or '<at>' etc, and then indicate to the reader what to replace (change the X to an @) etc.. Sometimes you can even put the email address in a jpg (picture), but some scanners can even read clear text in pictures. It's a big problem. Thought you should be aware of this, just for the halibut. I wouldn't want to see you flounder or get in a pickeral. TI

Well, I watched this and became disgusted again. Neo_Advaita. Nothing to do. It upsets me when someone like Tony Parsons claims that there is nothing to do, no practices to perform, no method to becoming enlightened. The claim is that there is nobody there in the first place. Tony Parsons admits that he had been a seeker, but he says that the seeking was preventing him from realizing. Well, just wait a minute. Maybe realization has to do with seeking as hard and long as you can and then stopping. It is the combination of events that causes the disolution, the seeking and then stopping. It is quite presumptuous to assume that no method can grant enlightenment. Further, what about reincarnation and the fact that someone may have been a yogi/practitioner for the last 36 previous lives? I mean, even the Dalai Lama states that in order to become enlightened, one must first plant the seed of desire. If it were true, as Tony Parsons claims, that people who don't practice anything are becoming enlightened (he makes it sound like a common event), then why are there greater numbers of rainbow bodies and adepts in Buddhist/Taoist practitioners than common people. And even then, how would Tony Parsons or anyone (including me) know who had attained enlightenment? It's not like all the enlightened people in the world (practitioners and non-practitioners) have a check-in station where they publicly post their non-acheivement.. To me, Tony Parsons sounds like all the rest of the neo-advaitans, John Wheeler, Sailor Bob, Rodney Stevens etc who think that dissociating from the mind and thoughts is enlightenment. It sure is easy to declare one's self enlightened, write a book about it, yet have no abilities, siddhis, healing ability or magical powers, isn't it? Not even a pronounced aura or clearly detectable energy stream... I wonder how much the book costs? (not really -sarcasm) Makes me wonder if somehow, most of the neo-advaitans did practices that burned out parts of their medulla and then adopted the common ideologies to justify their vacant states. Pretty good scam, I would say. Don't worry. You don't have to respond to this. After all, you don't exist, I don't exist and the one life that is spewing out our thoughts is really running the show, regardless of what we think or do.. TI

Hi Ish Actually, I did post about it here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/23952-feels-like-death-shamatha-before-bed/ Part of what I learned about the process is listed here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/23952-feels-like-death-shamatha-before-bed/#entry345196 Even Ramana described the 'death of the ego' as a passage through something: http://thetaobums.com/topic/23952-feels-like-death-shamatha-before-bed/page__st__32#entry348085 TI

Hi Dwai Ok. I will re-read... You said: In keeping with how Nisargadatta speaks about it, when there are no more objects of consciousness, what remains is awareness. If you want to call it consciousness without objects, that's not a problem. However, you might want to ask, who or what is it that is aware that there are no objects in consciousness? In my mind (pun intended), if "you" are noticing something, in this case, the lack of objects in consciousness, then there is still the object (lack of objects in consciousness) and the perceiver (subject/witness). And like Nisargadatta says: That is all that I'm saying.. And, as far as the capacity to remain in objectless consciousness goes because sooner or later thoughts arise, I would say that as long as you are in the world, that you are congnizant of the body regardless of the fact that there are thoughts or not, you are still in consciousness. When consciousness or objectless consciousness disappears, the world disappears.. TI

Hi Gatito Or perhaps, as Nisargadatta says, the background is awareness.. TI

Well, after all this discussion, let's leave it to the pro. Nisargadatta.. From "I AM THAT".. TI

Hi implicate_order That is an interesting experience.. When I've sat in meditation, neither grasping or averting thoughts/visions/sensations, eventually the thoughts/visions/sensations abated leaving clear bright transparent consciousness. But what happened next is something that you didn't describe in your experience. The whole space of clear consciousness turned into golden light, and shrank down and started to collapse downwards into the heart. It felt like I was dying and I was filled with terror and fear. After some research I learned that passing through that phase is passing through the abyss which mind cannot cross. The mind, the small self must be left behind. I wonder why your experience does not reflect that state or transition... TI

Hi Dwai Let's define "object". Because, in your definition, when thoughts disappear, the field or space that the thoughts exist in is an object. It can be perceived. It has characteristics. Each one of those characteristics is an 'object'. I would say, you cannot have consciousness without an object, something that is moving. Objects are motions. If you freeze consciousness, it does not work anymore. It cannot be 'conscious' of anything.. Then something else takes over. An object (or form) is a thought, a vision, a sensation, a material object -like a cup, a space, an absence of an object, a non-perception, anything that is realized by consciousness moving. You need the movement, the grasping or aversion in order for consciousness to work. I agree. You cannot stay in OC as long as there is something to perceive, something moving. But lack of thought is not OC. Everything that is perceivable must have a background that is motionless, utimately stable, in order for consciousness to perceive it. TI

Hi et-thoughts Your question implies that the mind is somehow split and then becomes aware of the part that split out. If you are from the school that "it is all mind", I suppose that works but then you can't discuss the more refined jhanic states of neither perception or non-perception, or even what Nisargadatta called going beyond the "I AM". For me, the conceptual mind is what tries to rush into a samadhic moment. It veils the essence of pure consciousness. Pure consciousness can be broken down into awareness, luminosity, transparency, vividness and the feeling that you "are" this infinite expanse of something. These parts make up the whole. So, in my vocabulary, even though the conceptual mind is gone, there remains a clear, transparent luminous field of awareness which neither averts nor grasps. I wouldn't call it "mind". But I suppose you could. TI

If anyone is interested in two excellent videos about Tolle, I would recommend the following: A recap of the main teachings from the point of view of a beginner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CJ2TUtQvJo Eckhart Tolle talks about his awakening - Part1 (Jun 2012) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrsySWJgKfo&feature=related Eckhart Tolle talks about his awakening - Part2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZG77Rth3uU&feature=relmfu Eckhart Tolle talks about his awakening - Part3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVoqjnpep1g&feature=relmfu TI

Well, excuse me again for posting a Buddhist quote in a Vedanta subfolder, but I thought I'd point out that studying objectless consciousness is precisely what some Buddhists do: link: http://www.khandro.net/meditation_garuda.htm

Hi Mike1234 Well, thanks to Gatito, I have this post once again. Tried to post it last night but TTB was offline again.. Not sure what happened there, must be an IP thing? This is what I had posted (I'll probably edit it somewhat..) : Somehow, after the crash, your PM does not work. So I will answer your question here. It is up to you to find your own path. AYP is really TM combined with Kriya Yoga, but with practices that have been customized and background theory that is erroneous. I wouldn't call TM spiritual, I'm even surprised that people think it is true meditation. The major flaw of AYP is the belief that concentration (first of the last three limbs of Yoga according to Patanjali) is an effortless releasing of attention into dissolution, and that is how the mantra is used. Every other text in the history of yoga will emphasize that meditation starts with the pointing of attention and the sustaining of that attention, which requires effort and willpower. I do not wish to rehash all of this. If you are interested in this misinterpretation of Patanjali's sixth limb of yoga, please see this link: http://thetaobums.com/topic/21469-patanjalis-sutras-and-samyama-questions/ If you have a bent towards asanas, pranayama, kriya yoga, kundalini, then I would try to find some books like "Kundalini Tantra" by Swami Satyananda Saraswati. Or if you are into Raja Yoga, you might check out these excellent lessons at http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/mws/mws_table_of_contents.html You could also check out the SRF (Self Realization Fellowship). Yogananda Paramhansa Yogi. "Autobiography of a Yogi". For the longest time they had a series of lessons that they would mail to you. I have three years' worth. The energization exercises are very powerful and the kriya yoga is classic. I've never attended or met any of the teachers in person though and I've heard that they are very strict.. If you incline more towards Buddhism and examining the mind and the jhanas, I would buy the book called "Wisdom Wide and Deep" by Shaila Catherine. It is an excellent meditation manual and was just published. It is 550 pages long and not only covers all of the jhanas through breath meditation, but with the kasinas as well. It contains many charts and practices. One of the best I've seen in a long time. The most interesting thing that I've learned in that book is that you use the heart as a springboard into some of the jhanas, because it is the centre of consciousness.. Didn't know that it could be used like that. http://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Wide-Deep-Practical-Mastering/dp/086171623X Others you might research are Ajahn Brahm "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond". http://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-Bliss-Beyond-Meditators-Handbook/dp/0861712757 The Flight of the Garuda (an advanced Dzogchen guide): http://www.amazon.com/Flight-Garuda-Dzogchen-Tradition-Buddhism/dp/0861713672/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351981765&sr=1-1&keywords=the+flight+of+the+garuda "Vivid Awareness" http://www.amazon.com/Vivid-Awareness-Instructions-Khenpo-Gangshar/dp/1590308166/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351981815&sr=1-1&keywords=vivid+awareness Really most books by Alan Wallace are excellent. These contain awareness instructions and practices: "The Four Immeasurables", "Stilling the Mind", "The Attention Revolution" and "Mind in the Balance". Here is a page to some of his podcasts: http://podcasts.sbinstitute.com/ Or, if you are very ripe, you could check out Advaita Vedanta: Nisargadatta is a sage, repetitive and sometimes illusive. But his book is famous: "I AM THAT". http://www.amazon.com/I-Am-That-Nisargadatta-Maharaj/dp/0893860468 Krishna Menon. http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/Atmananda_Krishna_Menon_Books Or, if you are so ripe you are ready to fall off the tree, try some neo-advaitans like Ken Wilbur, Sailor Bob, Rodney Stevens, John Wheeler "The Natural State". Francis Lucille is very good too. But beware.. Intellectual understanding does not produce true understanding or enlightenment. You have to gain your understanding through experience. You also have to have enough willpower/concentration/training in order to hold and sustain these states.. otherwise you just fall back down.. Eventually you realize that the conceptual mind is one of the biggest obstacles to remaining in those rarified states.. Of course, there are the Discourse Summaries by Goenka which is a very powerful method of body mindfulness, and is very similar to Eckhart Tolle's practice of sensing the inner body. For me, these types of practices are the most powerful, they cause kundalini awakenings, immense bliss and 24 hour awareness for days at a time.. There are actually so many spiritual practices and things that can be done that it is mind boggeling. Your path should depend on your desires and what you hope to achieve. And, perhaps the availability of an authentic guru or group of practitioners that you can consult for support and clarification. I received shaktipat in absentia from Sri Anandi Ma (Dhyan Yogi). http://dyc.org/teachers/anandi-ma She is a mysterious being and has appeared to me numerous times on the astral planes. Some other sites for Buddhist type support are Kenneth Folk's site. (A self declared arahat). Another one is Daniel Ingram. I've been staying away from Daniel Ingram's site because I find that he has put too much energy on the dark night, and if you focus too much on that, you create your own reality. One caution: I've always thought that the noting technique is a mental disturbance, sort of like using a mantra to still the mind. Although it is good to start with that because it trains the coarse attention, keeping the mind in action by noting or repeating a mantra just doesn't still the mind. That's not it's purpose. See shamatha practice in Buddhist texts.. Kunlun.. very powerful too. So is Max. Gee, this is starting to sound like the Academy awards! Ok, here are some other honourable mentions, whom I have studied: Carlos Casteneda, Mark Griffin (Hardlight) - very powerful and energetic, Osho (don't recommend - too many games and intellectual challenges), Adyashanti (don't recommend - too many contradictions and bad advice), Gnani Purush Gnan Vidi- I would love to attend one of his ceremonies, The Dalai Lama -visited me astrally one night.. very nice smile! Swamiji has a very good site with lots of info on it: http://www.swamij.com/ And lastly, don't forget Tai Chi, Qi Gong, Micro Cosmic Orbit, and all the Taoist teachings. They are also very profound in their own way. Well, I wish I had more time. I would start listing the 300 books in my library, and then all the podcasts, websites, forums.... I guess I'm a yoga/spritualism junkie.. But I am leaning more towards Buddism these days because that's where you find the most detail. Not that detail is a good thing for everyone, it just is for my type of mind. I'm interested in how things work. And, the heart is very important. Don't neglect the heart. It is the seat of consciousness, the site of the indestructible drop, contains a wishing well and is the door to infinite realms. And sometimes the best path is just to sit and do nothing. No grasping, no aversion, no thing. Good luck on your journey. TI

Tolle is not a sad windbag and he is not dated. What is the purpose of introducing ethnic background to support your opinion? Are you trying to spread prejudice? I love Eckart Tolle. He is the world's best psychologist. He is often funny, witty, clever and amusing. I own just about all of his books, some CD's, many podcasts and have studied him for a long time. Tolle understands impermanence, ego, and the pain body, and he is very capable of passing that understanding to his audience. In his book called "Practising the Power of Now", you will find some classic practices, those practices which are found in most Buddhist and Vedanta manuals. He really did his homework and picked very effective methods with which to educate people about spirituality and self-realization. One of the practices is "watching your thoughts" and becoming a watcher of thoughts.. (sounds familiar?) He even has a little game of asking yourself: "I wonder what my next thought will be." Another practice is "how to heal the body by transferring or directing consciousness". Another one of his practices is "sensing the inner body" (which is very similar to Goenka's technique, and one part of Buddha's technique of anapanasati, or body mindfulness). When I first learned about Tolle's "sensing the inner body", I turned it into my regular meditation, twice a day for 35 minutes. After two weeks, I had to stop. My kundalini was activating during the meditations. It is also very blissful to become a cloud of life-force. I was becoming a cloud of life-force, and sometimes this cloud of life force would kind of separate from the body, while going up or down elevators, turning corners etc.. I was also becoming aware 24 hrs a day (watched myself sleep for a few days in a row), I could see with my eyes closed ... well you get the picture. All that, by just fixating on the feeling of the life force. If you treat "sensing the inner body", that is, you focus on the 'feeling of the life-force in the body' and perform dhyana, dharana and samadhi on it, it will blow your socks off. I'm very happy that this practice is in my bag of practices and I still use it to this very day, especially if I need healing or dissociation from the outer world. What Tolle has created is timeless and will no doubt help many people realize their true natures or get started down the path. So you can understand my dismay when someone who didn't get the same thing out of Tolle that I did, calls him a sad, dated windbag. E'nuf said.. TI

Hi Gatito You have that post? Gee I spent allot of time writing that.. and then it disappeared.. If you have it, could you post it? Thanks. TI

Hi Forest of Emptiness Emptiness? Isn't that a Buddhist term? Sorry, I thought the topic was "Objectless Consciousness", and well, in my opinion, I have found that the Buddhists have a more detailed map of levels of consciousness than the Vedantans. I mean, Nisargadatta: Seek the "I AM" and then go beyond. Ramana: Seek the self. Gnan Vidhi: purusha, Most: the atman, Brahman, and all the samadhis including nirvikalpa and sahaja. Then throw kundalini in there, the chakras and everything else.. It is hard to tell any sequence or stages of development in achievements with reference to 'consciousness' in Vedanta. I suppose one could say that the levels of consciousness for Vedantans are the chakras. But even Patanjali's last three limbs of yoga don't distinguish between types of consciousness in the samadhis in samyama. In Buddhism, the stages of consciousness are all mapped out. I've always thought that both were leading to the same place, but who knows.. I don't mean to offend anyone.. I've also noticed that most Buddhist meditation manuals have mapped the stages of meditation/concentration explicitly. Where else do you find the issues of excitement and laxity addressed during meditation? Detail.. love that detail.. TI