Tibetan_Ice

Hi, I thought of that. What you would need is a pulse monitor watch that records a history. Actually, the fact that your wife disturbs you in this state is an indication that you have not reached the breathless state that is known as Nirvikalpa Samadhi. For if you had, someone could pinch your leg and you wouldn't know it. link: http://www.kriya.org/soulculture__7.3.php That is not to say that the state you are reaching isn't good, or an indication of progress. That is another discussion. There are many states that one can fall into, ones without vivid clarity, that are just a waste of time and can actually be detrimental if repeated regularily. My purpose here is just to clarify.. TI

Hi DNB I would reassess this state if I were you, since you say that you still have a pulse. The true breathless state, as denoted by Yogananda Paramhansa Yogi is characterized by the heart stopping. I first learned about that in the SRF lessons many years ago. Here is some more information: link: http://home.pages.at/gawd/english/on_your_wings/truekriyapranayama.htm So, the next time you are in the breathless state, have your wife take your pulse.. Oh, and the kutashta is the third eye.. TI

Hi Jetsun The book is called "Kundalini" he says: link: http://www.kundaliniawakeningsystems1.com/downloads/kundalini-the-evolutionary-energy-in-man_gopi-krishna_(89pg).pdf Gopi Krishna practiced concentration on the crown, not the third eye: link: http://www.om-guru.com/html/saints/gopi.html Further, eventually Gopi Krishna came to realize that the kundalini had arisen through his pingala channel and then balanced it out by bringing ida (the left channel) into the sushumna. Now, I'm not saying the kundalini isn't dangerous.. I almost went up in flames a few times. I do believe if you are not careful you could spontaneously combust.. and if you have some form of mental illness, it might be wise to stay away and seek a top-down awakening like the Holy Ghost.. or water method. But, Gopi Krishna was meditating on the crown, not the third eye. TI

Hi Josama, I found your posts about your experiences and read them. I'm sorry that you've had such a rough time. Although I am sympathetic because I don't like to see anyone suffer as you did, I feel I must point out that you are mistakenly blaming the third eye when in fact it was a combination of your practices and misundertandings. 1) There are other chakras between the third eye and the crown. Technically, the third eye is not at the middle of the forehead, it is between the brows and it's polar opposite is the medulla at the brain stem in the base of the skull. I'm not sure you were focusing on the right region. It didn't sound like it anyway. 2) Drugs like pot and cocaine don't mix well with spirituality. Here is what Samuel Sagan says about it: (from his book "Awakening the Third Eye") 3) Hypnotism is not a good thing to do (unless you are the hypnotist). Being hypnotized is turning control of your finer bodies (astral, etheric, mental) to someone else, to some other external control. It is not a good thing to do. It creates a flow of energy which bypasses your will, your good reason and common sense. Once someone hypnotizes you, you lose control. One lie that hypnotists will tell you is that you would never do something that you wouldn't ordinarily do. Well, think again. You wouldn't take your clothes off in public, would you? How about this: You are hypnotized and you are sitting there on a stage. The hypnotist tells you that you are alone on a desert island and it is very hot. It is so hot that you feel very uncomfortable. It would be so nice to feel the cool breeze but you have clothes on. Take off your shirt. Doesn't that feel better? Now, you remove your pants...etc.. etc... The point is that through suggestion, you can bend a person's senses and set up a mental circumstance in which they may do something that in reality, they would never do. If you want to do hypnosis, be the hypnotist and hypnotize yourself. Learn to be in command. You will find that you can control your body and mind with dedicated practice. But never never turn over that prescious control to external factors. So, in a nutshell, it is highly likely that you did not open the third eye, that through your combinations of drug use, hypnotism and by probably pushing effort and coarse energy into the frontal lobes, you gave yourself an overload. Now don't be ashamed of that. Many people have done that. I have had a few overloads myself from energy practices alone. I shudder to think how serious it could be coupled with the aforementioned factors. One time, from overdoing a form of spinal breathing, I spent a week feeling like a zombie, feeling like someone had spooned out the top of my head. It felt like I spent the whole week sleep walking. I don't know how I got through it but I did. So, don't blame it on the third eye. Blame it on a combination of inexperience and inadequate knowledge. There is a reason why yogis and Buddhists practice clean living. It is because, not only does it help purify the body and mind and help remove afflictions, when something happens that wrenches your mind out of it's sockets, you have a better chance of coping with it effectively. Part of awakening the third eye is realizing the opposite side of the third eye pole, which is the medulla, or the witness. The witness watches everything and is not affected by anything. The witness watches thoughts, emotions, sensations, visions from a small distance away. The development of the third eye witness is an important part of spiritual development. As your practice unfolds, you will discover that you are not your thoughts or emotions or sensations. The small you is quietly sitting there, behind it all, unaffected, just watching. It is a great help when the shit hits the fan. And yes, you are right about not forcing anything. This is what Samuel Sagan says about using "force": Good luck on your journey. TI

Hi Creation, Sorry, I should have been more clear in my statement. When you first produce the heat at the navel, you take it into the central channel and then upwards. This bypasses the lower chakras. I pointed this out because most forms of kriya practice start at the root and go upwards. However in Buddhism, you start at the navel and then up. That is the distinction. When the drops melt, the practitioner can control the melting of the drops and then, the melting of the drops is taken all the way to bottom secret chakra through the central channel. There are some books which are free online, by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, which explain the entire structure of the chakras, the winds and the drops. Clear Light of Bliss For three free books on Modern Buddhism by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso see this link: link: http://www.emodernbuddhism.com/ This is from Modern Buddhism Vol 2: And here is the melting of the drops.. TI

Hi DNB The various methods which describe the tummo practice have a first step of a sort of alternate nostril breathing. The purpose is to balance ida and pingala, the left and right channels. You can tell if you have succeeded in this by checking that you have equal breath flow through both nostrils. If the flow of breath through one nostril is greater or more pronounced, you will not be able to dissolve the left and right channels into the sushumna/central channel. If you practice tummo without first having the ida and pinagala balanced, the heat will not enter the central channel and will flow on the outside, producing bodily heat. Or even, it may well flow into ida or pingala (the left and right channels) producing cold or heat. This is incorrect practice. Actually, just the practice of clearing both nostrils so that the breath is flowing smoothly and evenly through both nostrils is a practice in itself. Normally the predominant nostril breath flow changes from one side to the other every couple hours throughout the day. If you catch yourself at that point when the predominant nostril is switching to the other, it is very easy to collapse ida and pingala into the top of the central channel at the third eye by gently breathing inwards through the nose and 'sucking' inwards while putting your tongue on the palette and rolling your eyes upwards.. Otherwise, you do the alternate nostril type of breathing to clear and balance the nostrils before practice.. The method of tummo is very interesting. There are five pranas/winds in the body. When you breathe in you gather prana at the navel chakra. When you perform a root lock (tightening the orifices in the bottom torso, it causes the apana (downward flowing prana) to reverse and be drawn up to the navel chakra. By silently swallowing, you are then mixing in another type of prana (vayu). Then, by holding your breath, focusing on the navel chakra, along with the root lock, this mixture of different forms of prana combines and produces heat. The next step is to take the heat up the central channel when gently exhaling and this causes blazing. At first it is a small flame that ignites. Later, the flame grows and produces more heat, the heat rises up the central channel and melts the red and white kundalini drops in the heart and head chakras. It is interesting to note that all of these texts: "The Clear Light of Bliss", "Bliss of Inner Fire" and "The 6 Yogas of Naropa" take the heat from the navel directly to the central channel, bypassing the two lower chakras! It is said that it is the heat in the central channel that loosens the three knots/granthis. So, yes, I agree. If you have not opened both nostrils and balanced the left and right channels, or if you do not take the heat into the central channel, you will experience external heat and possibly adverse phenomenon. Also, don't take the heat into the kidneys. Learn proper technique. TI

Hi Kevin, I find that your concepts are so full of misinformation and support of ignorance that I just have to say something. You are probably a real nice guy and think you have your heart in the right place, wanting to help people and elucidate your acquisition of marginal knowledge, but I think you have some homework to do. The chakra system can function in many modes, depending on the level of understanding, ability and precision of the practioner. Someone whom has 24 hour mindfulness can maintain balanced chakras at will, and can balance chakras of those around them too by contact. People with poor mindfulness or incorrect spiritual practice will not have balanced chakras. The chakras are connected to the sushumna, the central channel. Thus, each chakra has access to the larger reality. It does not matter if one is meditating or not, any chakra, if the circumstances are right can bring the person into a greater perception of reality, especially the heart chakra. Kundalini is not the end-all, be all. Kundalini is just an energetic phase that one goes through as the layers of consciousness are peeled back and fall away. Kundalini has no silent center for kundalini is a wind. It is energetic movement. Shakti. Shiva is stillness. The One Cavity has nothing to do with kundalini, although you can use kundalini energy to open the gate. But you can use other energy too to open the gate. You have mixed too many words and terms from different teachings to make sense here. Really? Where did you read this? Let me tell you a story. About 25 years ago I wanted to realize the eighth chakra real bad. So I sat in my lazy boy chair and said to myself that I would not get out of the chair until I could see the star two feet above my head, like everyone else was talking about. I focused all my attention on that location, two feet above my head and kept focusing on it. Three and one half hours later, I popped out of the top my head and found myself looking into a large black space with many stars in the greater distance. It felt like I was dying. I had immense fear and recoiled from it. I got up out of the chair and walked towards the kitchen to get a drink of water. As I walked to the kitchen, two faeries come out of the wall and proceeded to talk to me. They were very pretty, sparkly and etheric. I asked them what they wanted. They said that they were there to entertain me. I said that I didn't want to be entertained and asked them to leave. They left. But a few days later they came back and I made friends with them. This friendship has lasted many years. And, after that experience, I have always been able to see the bright white eighth chakra star about 1 1/2 feet above my head. I can pull down light from it and send it to parts of my body if I want. It is very ecstatic, pure and fine. So, yes, there is an eighth chakra and realizing it has nothing to do with all chakras coming together as you have indicated. Just good old one pointed awareness will do the trick. Chakras don't work themselves out in the wash as you have indicated. Imbalances can come from many places, karmic fruitions, people contact, events, at any time or place. One of the faster methods of realization is the bliss of the inner fire. Tummo. Ever hear of Buddha or the Mahamudra practice? It's all about chakras, the inner fire and the central channel. In order to do the practice, not only must one skillfully understand the method and intricacies, but one must know about the chakras. You know, that statement is just wrong. It is a statement for the acceptance of ignorance. It is counterproductive. It is the kind of statement that you would find at AYP. Have you become a parroting AYP brown noser? Just shut off, bathe in ignorance and do the practices. Right? Any teaching that supports ignorance is just plain wrong. Buddha said: Why fret about chakras? If you can't understand the concepts and are incapable of learning about the concepts, then drop it. Most people, even ones with a grade five mentality are capable of learning something new. But don't try to convince others, who might be more intelligent and capable of grasping the underlying knowledge, that their interest and love of knowledge is somehow an impediment. The final realization is knowledge. The ultimate understanding. Understanding is intelligence. Intelligent people are quite capable of understanding correct practice, when to grasp and to when not to grasp. Intelligent people are able to distinguish between meditative and non meditative states, and when to skillfully apply their knowledge. Most people are way more intelligent than they think they are. Buddha said: And here is something from the Dalai Lama: I'm so sorry to have posted this post to you, but I find that anyone who supports ignorance should be set straight. No hard feelings and I wish you all the best. TI

Hi, Here are some references to the chakras above the sarashara: There is a diagram at this link too: link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/mws/mws_resource-03.html Also, this about the Golden Body: link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/mws/mws_ch-48.html TI

Hi, Well I finally found some information on the "Feels Like Death" phenomenon from Alan Wallace. From "Mind In The Balance" by Alan Wallace: Although I have had several more occasions when the "feels like death" phenomenon came calling during meditations, I have not had the guts to go through with it as my body seems to react beforehand. I will have to work on conquering my fear. In that same book, Dr. Wallace writes this about "Merrell-Wolff": Although I do not think that this experience described by Merrell-Wolff is the same as the one Alan Wallace describes, because I believe that Merrell-Wolff is describing the transition that occurs when you enter the void, in which there is still a subject (I) and an object (the void), and because I have made that transition many times into the void without fear or feeling that the "I" was being decimated, I do find the concept of transitioning from one state to another being referred to as a mental blackout to have its merits. Here is a link to a web page about Merrell-Wolff: http://www.integralscience.org/gsc/ His story of awakening is fascinating and seems to have its roots in the Direct Path, Advaita Vedanta.. I especially found this excerpt of interest: I think the key point to all of this is 'reversing the flow of consciousness back to the source'. And, luckily, Alan Wallace has described the techniques that seem to work. It's just a matter of practice. TI

Hi Xabir If you don't mind me asking, where is the link to your first e-sangha post where you talk about this experience back in 2004? I would love to read it. TI

Hi theLerner Thanks for your comments. I guess I was really hurt when I discovered that AYP wasn't about seeking the truth. My attempts to further elaborate on concepts, teach people about the third eye, in support of Kunlun and correct understanding etc were viewed as leading people away from the AYP philosophy and a 'distraction which would no longer be tolerated'. The hardest thing, apart from no longer being able to even view the forum from my home IP, is that I've lost the ability to communicate with the few intelligent members whom I respected, who held to their own points of view, despite the immense pressure and constant battering by the brown-nosing parrots. You know, I've been a member of TTB since 2008, I started out here before I started posting at AYP and you are right. There is not much mention of AYP here. I wish there would have been some warnings.. But many AYP members read TTB because it is a clear pool of opinions untainted by a lording despot. (okay, I admit, maybe some opinions here aren't really a clear shining pool of lucid intelligence either, but that is par for the course). AND, there are some very intelligent people here whose opinions I respect greatly. Although a rest from it all sounds nice, there is no rest for the wicked.. TI

Hi K Thanks for your comments, they always seem to have a soothing effect on me. Yes, I will keep at it. It is a sad and sorry thing to have to expose something that you once thought was authentic, in support of the truth and universal principles of yoga, when in fact the only truth found there was Yogani's truth. I will never forget Yogani's argument in support of mantra repetition versus breath meditation. He said, once the breathing stops you have nothing left to focus on, whereas if you are doing mantra repetition and the breathing stops, you can still do the mantra!!! Not only did he not understand that Buddha's Anapanasati is not soley about the breath, but he didn't understand that with breath meditation eventually nimittas (signs) appear, which you then switch your attention to. And, when you focus on the nimitta and penetrate it, it takes you to samadhi/jhana. The other point is that you can only do so much of mantra repetition before the medulla tires and tries to shut off, whereas, like Alan Wallace says, you can meditate for hours on the breath. The other point is that mantra repetition is the mind effortfully creating a form, creating a thought or a subvocalization. It takes effort. That effort can prevent you from going deeper. When the nimitta appears, it does so naturally, without effort. The same goes for the breathing. Breathing occurs on it's own so you can remain a passive observer. Mantra repetition activates the lower tan tien and sends out spurts of chi/prana/winds. The two techniques are totally different. That is why Alan Wallace says that you can't use mantra to still the mind ala shamatha. And, it's very hard to overload while doing breath meditation because the out-breath is a natural vent for excess energy. I know you weren't looking for any lessons on Anapanasati, sorry.. How did people solve spiritual differences in the past? They went to war. They killed millions of people in the name of their religion. Stupid to have to die only to be reborn and have to go through growing up all over again, isn't it? Here, I will sing you a song.. in the key of B: Row row row your boat, gently down the stream, Merrily, merrily merrily merrily, Life is but a dream.. TI

Hi snbeings Thank you so much for the links and the info. I've spent a few hours reviewing Anadi's website, reading some pages, listening to some podcasts.. It does seem very in depth and has some very interesting ideas and practices, such as the practice of turning the attention around and focusing on the 'me'. The strangest thing that happened was that as I was checking out the Book of Enlightenment on an Amazon preview, I felt that I had read all the previews before. It was uncanny. So, I've ordered the book. The videos that I've found on youtube by A H Almaas are also very intersting. He seems very authentic. Thank you so much for the information. I am grateful. TI

Hi Gatito, Thank you for the links and the clarification. Sorry, I guess I should have defined neo-advaitist. The neo-advaitist 'teachers' that I'm referring to are from the lineage of Nisargadatta to some extent. The list of authors and books that I have are these: Sailor Bob: What's Wrong With Right Now -unless you think about it Only THAT John Wheeler: Clear in Your Heart Awakening to the Natural State Right here, Right now The Light Behind Consciousness Stephen Wingate: Dogs, Cats & Dreams of Spiritual Awakening The Outrageous Myths of Enlightenment Rodney Stevens: A Vastness All Around And, to some extent I consider Ken Wilbur to be neo-advaitist. I believe that spiritual teachings have commonalities that are described in differing terminology. I believe that there are universal spiritual laws and having the opportunity of the internet, to have all these teachings easily available at one's disposal presents the chance to read, analyze and distill. Now, let us examine your statement about not mixing the prakriyas.. because I've adopted the Buddhist tenet of examining everything with great detail. What is a prakriya? The definition I found is that a prakriya is a 'teaching method'. Is that correct? Well then I would have to agree with you. It is best that a teaching method be clear and concise. But wait, I found this commentary about prakriyas: This next quote about the prakriyas is from provided by Ananda Wood, a disciple of the sage Atmananda Krishna Menon (1883 - 1959). http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/atmananda/atmananda8a.htm Hmm.. It would appear that this person is saying the Krishna Menon is in support of discovering and even "inventing" new prakriyas.. Is that correct? So, just to be clear, we can discover and invent prakriyas but we cannot mix them? But isn't mixing them a form of invention? I don't think this discussion is worth pursuing as dialectics sometimes results in circular logic.. Thanks again for your comments and links. TI

Hi vallavar, You know, in North America, selling a scanned book is an infringement of copyright law. It is a criminal offense. It is theft. Max is one powerful dude. I sure wouldn't want to be on his bad side, if he has one.. TI

Hi snbeings Thank you for your comments! Where can I find more information about "things Anadi(Aziz Kristof) and A.H. Almaas "? I see.. http://www.amazon.com/Book-Enlightenment-Anadi/dp/1456539922/ref=pd_sxp_f_r Which book by Anadi do you recommend? Which book by Almaas? (I like books that tell you the theory, the practices and the experiences..) http://www.amazon.com/A.-H.-Almaas/e/B001JP8IN6 Thank you so much. TI

Hi Gatito Oh, that is Rupert Spiro. Although they were using Ruper Spiro's house for the Francis Lucille interview, the interviewer was someone else.. Thanks for clarifying. You know, I watched that video with Rupert Spiro and I think he missed the point and is simply regurgitating an unclear understanding, or is speaking figuratively. There is another discussion here, because right-brain awareness is unbounded, like the imagination. There may be merit in realizing that and not mistaking it for true realization. But that is another discussion.. In that video Rupert says that you cannot find the "I", that it is simply unbounded awareness. I disagree. Self realization is a three step process. First, you find the small "I", which is aware of objects and forms. That "I" is in the medulla. It is the watcher. It realizes thoughts and phenomenon. It has access to the linear left-brain and the multi-dimensional right brain. It has a specific location and you can find it. All phenomenon of the physical world, thoughts, sensations, feelings etc pass to this small "I". Think about it. How else would "we" know anything and interact with the outside world, the body, the sensations etc. The big "I" which is in the heart is also aware of everything the small "I" is aware of, but it is also aware of much more. The big "I" connects to the small "I" through the jivanadi/atmanadi channel. Then, when this small "I" falls down into the hole in the heart through that channel, which feels like death, death of the ego or psyche, according to Ramana, the ego is dissolved, the vasanas and karmas are all cleared and the person functions from the vantage point of universal consciousness. But can you see my point? There is an intermediary step of the existence of a small "I", which can be found, has a location (the medulla), and is the key (according to both Ramana and Nisargadatta). If the small "I" could not be found, then how then could Nisargadatta repeatedly say "Focus on the feeling of "I AM"" and then say that true reality is beyond it, the small "I" being the doorway. That's why I believe Ramana's process of self-inquiry is to first say "whom is having this thought", which focuses on the small "I", and next to ask "Who am I". First you go to the junction of the small "I", the medulla, and then from there, you find the second connection to the heart, where the indestructible drop (Buddhist) lives.. So jumping directly into "there is no I" or "you can't find the I" as Rupert and most neo-advaitits are saying, is misleading. The small "I" does have a center and it does have a sense of "I". It is also surrounded by golden light. And, it can't focus on itself or watch itself because it is the part that watches. With reference to itself, it can only be aware of the fact that it exists and emits a golden light. But you can recede your awareness or attention backwards into it and abide there, which is a wonderful peaceful thing to do. And, if you do that long enough, that is when it drops down into the spiritual heart, and makes you feel like you are about to die. My opinion and interpretation based on my experiences at this time.. TI

Hey Gatito I love Francis Lucille. He is right on. I've studied his works. Thanks for pointing out that link. ESPECIALLY THIS PART: Thank you too for the video link. I always enjoy listening to Francis because he is like a surgeon, so clear and precise. I kind of feel sorry for Rupert though.. because he kind of falls apart at the end of the interview.. The question is not "Who am I?", the question is "What knows that I am?". TI

Woohooo! Another state of rapture. For this afternoon's meditation I was really bothered by my thoughts because someone attacked my ego. That is always a hard one and I hate it when that interupts my meditation.. So.. I did 10 minutes of anapanasati stages, watched the breath, sensed the body, calmed the body, sensed the body, calmed the body, just all over the place, jumping back and forth to my ego attack.. So, I decided to focus from the self at the medulla and watch my thoughts without distraction, without grasping. As I watched my thoughts, very strong thoughts, one by one, as they arose, they disappeared. I would focus my attention directly at the thought, and within a few seconds, the thought had dissolved. Unbelievable. It was working! I found a peaceful space in the center of my head at the self/ego/medulla. It has kind of a golden light around it. I thought to myself, that is what Ramana and Nisargadatta mean when they say "abide in the self". Anyway, as I kept on dissolving my thoughts, a very fine sense of rapture started building up in my legs, lower torso and arms. As I kept dissolving my thoughts it got stronger and stronger. A few times I stopped because the rapture was so intense, but went back in.. Also, it felt like my face and head had turned into a twisting magnetic field. Then my meditation bell went off.. That was a very short 50 minutes! Again, the tingles, rapture, bliss and joy persisted far past the end of the meditation. Still have a big smile on my face. I love meditation.. I think this whole rapture thing is caused by dissociating from the thoughts, by not grasping nor repelling them, although I wonder if dissolving thoughts classifies as repelling thoughts.. TI What is here is everywhere. What is not here is nowhere --> Mark Griffin.

Hi Rainbowvein Yes the flute is being played while Mark is talking. It has lots of echo, and reminds me of something very mysterious. It evokes a longing to realize a long lost memory that I was once not what I am now.. TI

Hi, I was reading some posts at the AYP forum and I came accross these posts which are discussing the fact that during AYP's Deep Meditation (which is almost identical to TM) they are experiencing periods of dullness, laxity and perhaps even sleep. link: http://www.aypsite.o...?TOPIC_ID=11715 Doctor Who, posts: So, AumNatural asks if Doctor Who uses back support: I guess he forgot that part of the DM instructions that say to rest your back on the chair (or the wall). I believe that resting your back makes it easier to fall asleep, which is all that you are really doing in DM. Then, Bodhi Tree comments with similar observations.. They really don't know that during DM they are 'cat napping' which is referred to as an undesirable state known as 'laxity' or dullness, which is something to avoid in Buddhist Shamatha practice.. More about this later.. Then, Carson posts that these blackouts can happen for months! So, then, after no intervention by Yogani, or anyone else to set them straight, Doctor Who actually thanks them: The reason they are seeing visions or landscapes is because they are passing through the dream state after which they are slowly succumbing to laxity and falling asleep. The reason I bring all of this up is because, not only did I have the same experiences after I finally learned how to do TM or DM properly, but I was reading about laxity in Alan Wallace's books and he says, not only should laxity be avoided but prolonged laxity can cause a person to become unintelligent. In Alan Wallace's book called "The Attention Revolution", he says this about laxity: Dr. Wallace goes on to say: The last point of interest with reference to the DM practice of mantra repetition is found in Alan Wallace's book called "Stilling the Mind" wherein he says: Granted, Dr Wallace is referring to the normal usage of the mantra, as in conventional mantra repetition and AYP uses the mantra like a hypnogogic tool to access deep sleep. As to whether or not it takes you beyond deep sleep, is a mystery and yet to be proven by TM or DM meditators. Dr Wallace does say that any act of settling consciousness will lead to the substrate consciousness, from which all form arises and dissolves back into. But he also mentions that Primordial Consciousness lies further beyond.. I am concerned about the AYP meditators. Hopefully they will read this post and become a little wiser. TI