Tibetan_Ice

Hi, It seems I am not the only person who has found fault with Yogani and his yogic inventions... There is better out there. Much better - from an Amazon review TI

Hi Anamatva Thanks for the update. I was wondering how you were getting along. Nice to know. Thanks. Mark Griffin? Wow. He is one powerful scary dude! I have over 20 of his mp3's, books and podcasts. I especially like the mp3 called "The Guru Radar". The flute music is quite magical. TI

Hi Gatito and Anamatva Thank you both for your comments. Anamatva, how are you coming with your kundalini awakening? TI

Hi Chong Define "work". It is easy to talk through your hat, isn't it? I think you are deluded, and very disrepectful. A gap in consecutive awareness is not stilling the mind. A lapse of consciousness, as in the return from deep sleep is not stilling the mind. Shutting off the little voice in your head is not stilling the mind. Preparing the next sutra to drop into AYP's bastardization of the term "samyama" from inner silence, is not functioning from a stilled mind. A stilled mind does not function, nor does it remember the next sutra or perform any functions of conceptuality. How could it? If you have never tasted true samadhi how would you know if TM/DM works? You wouldn't have anything to compare and assess. Part of the reason is because when I first 'joined' AYP, I read all of the lessons, especially the part where it referenced Patanjali's Eight Limbs of Yoga. So, I assumed it was the classic interpretation of fixating on a form until the outer world dissolves, the subject and object become one and samadhi is realized. It wasn't until later, when I started to question AYP's definition of inner silence that I realized that Yogani had bastardized the last three limbs of yoga and diverted from the classic, commonly accepted ancient writing. When I was in samadhi, filled with light and bliss and joy, there was no way I could even conceive of functioning from that state. Yet, in AYP, you drop the sutra from inner silence. You remember the sutra while in a state of inner silence. So how could inner silence be samadhi? It's a deception. A big lie. Just a bunch of clever inventions that Yogani invented in order to make people believe they were actually doing classic Yoga. Like I said, if you have never tasted caviar, then you would believe that sardines is the real thing. You have yet to prove to me that "the foundation practice is sound". Perhaps you could tell us the difference between the TM state of transcendance and samadhi arising from sustained concentration. I know I can. The 'scenery', a worthless thing to AYP, has very many purposes and is quite usefull. It serves as signs that one is progressing. In anapanasati meditation, you have heard of Buddha haven't you? In anapansati meditation, once one has calmed the body and mind, nimittas (bright light or lights) appear. At that point you have to change your focus from the breath to focusing on the nimitta. Merging into the nimitta propels you into samadhi or one of the jhanas. If you regard the nimitta as 'scenery', then you've missed it. I will never forget what Yogani wrote. He said that if you are meditating and you see Jesus, you should ignore him and go back to repeating the mantra. Well, JESUS IS NOT SCENERY! How dare Yogani fill his books with references and quotes from Jesus and then have the audacity to regard Jesus as scenery, and to teach that! See, your brain has turned to mush. If you think that you still have to meditate and perform practices after realization, then that realization isn't authentic. Do yourself a favor. Look up Omnipotence, Omniprescence and Omnicience on the wiki. Did you really think that I would present my practices and boast or proclaim that they are superior? That's not the point. We are all at different levels of ripeness, with varying samskaras and karma. Some practices will work better for some. That is one point that was previously brought up. An authentic guru, having honed their intuition, can tell (not only previous lives of their students) what the student needs to accomplish intuitively. Further, just standing in an enlightened guru's light, in person, is enough to give you a true taste. That is something you don't get at AYP. What I object to is inventing practices, claiming to be Patanjali's yoga, removing the AUM from practices, preaching about the dangers of premature crown opening (the entrance for the Holy Spirit), simplifying practices and teachings to make them more palatable and more easily acceptable to the lowest common denominator. What I object to is a self-serving anti-guru anti-shaktipat teacher who attacks other teachings, misinterprets those teachings and tries to convince everyone that his way is the best. What I object to is AYP advertising that the contributions to the forum are the property of the authors, and then Yogani takes those posts and puts them in ebooks and sells them. What I object to is the fact that for years it was advertised on AYP that you could delete your posts at any time, yet when I went to delete my posts, I could not. I was being conned and deceived. What I object to is all the brilliant people who were banned from AYP for presenting their honest opinions and beliefs which were contrary to AYP's teachings. It is not up to me to provide people with an alternative path to follow. There are many authentic paths out there. It is up to people to learn and decide for themselves. You know, I wasted a lot of time doing AYP practices, especially DM. I learned bad habits, and they are hard to break. Meditation is not effortless. If it is, then you're heading in the wrong direction. If you don't increase your vividness, your level of awareness and attentiveness while relaxing your body and mind, you will fall into laxity as apparently you have done, and injured your intelligence. Patanjali's road map, a logical progression of working on the body through asanas, then pranayama, then pratyahara, then concentration then meditation and finally samadhi is a linear path which has a specific purpose. It is a culmination of the steps, done in proper order. But look what Yogani has done! He has taken the linear steps and mixed them all up. This is from his latest book called "Liberation" If Patanjali's Sutras have stood the test of time and is the foundation of modern yoga, how can we disrespect those teachings and turn them into a hodge podge of oatmeal like Yogani has done? Is that why there are so many overloads at AYP? Is that why Yogani invented self-pacing, which, incidentally, he recommends that one might have to do even in his invention of the AYP samayama? Is that why even Yogani, whom has practiced for over 40 years still has overloads as he revealed in his posts on the forum? Here is the Anapansati, the authentic teaching from The Buddha: See the logical linear progression? There is a purpose to it. The purpose is there for a reason. It progresses from coarse to fine. Here is a quote from Buddha. Buddha was a proponent of learning and knowledge. "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe simply because it has been handed down for many generations. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is written in Holy Scriptures. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of Teachers, elders or wise men. Believe only after careful observation and analysis, when you find that it agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all. Then accept it and live up to it." The Buddha Reasoning is harmful To fools; It ruins their good fortune And splits open their heads. The Buddha TI

Hi Chang One can determine the effectiveness of the practices by the fruits of the practices. I have seen many writings/post by long-term TM meditators, whom have practiced for 30 or 40 years, yet they do not claim to be enlightened, have no siddhis, and are seeking other practices.. I have read many Buddhist books that claim that their practitioners have realized siddhis, the rainbow body, conquered death, realized past lives, become enlightened. For me, that is proof enough. If you cannot or will not use your powers of observation and reason, that is to your detriment. Exactly! If the foundation is impotent, then the rest of the system is of no value. If the roots of the tree are rotten, the branches will soon be bare. The method is basic, but if it is so basic, why does the TM organization insist that the TM technique must be learned through personal training, which is something that the anti-guru AYP lessons don't supply? Why are there endless discussions on the AYP forum about "how to perform the mantra?". Why did I spend 4 years trying to perform the mantra as per Patanjali's 'sustained concentration' with great effort until I finally realized that Yogani's DM/TM was supposed to be effortless? Why are the samadhis that I reached during 'sustained concentration' longer, more pronounced and blissful than the miniscule amount of time spent dipping in the TM style method? Nobody on the AYP forum talks about the transcendant state. Further, Yogani dismisses experiences as scenery so there is a general reluctance by it's members to talk about it. Yogani keeps insisting that the fruit of the DM practice is general well-being in daily life, not the transcendant state. According to Yogani, even the enlightened one must keep performing his/her practices.. How ridiculous is that? Practices are a means to an end, not an end in themselves. If one has to keep practising, then they aren't enlightened. The layman, or even the occaisional meditator does not have ability to know the difference between a classic Patanjali-style samadhi, and taking a dip in deep sleep without dreams. It is easy to be a teacher to the ignorant, the children in the spiritual world. It is not so easy when they start to question the teachings and point out flaws. What an arrogant self-serving pernicious statement you have written. Are you trying to bait my ego? Is that how doing 35 years of TM has benefited you? You have no right to comment on my practice. I doubt you even know what my practices are... You do have a habit of talking about things with authority yet you have not done your homework. You, on the other hand, are in a position to answer the questions I posed, but I guess my questions forced you to examine your practice and perhaps come upon some unsavory realizations. Don't you believe that by sharing your experience you would benefit others? There is no victory here. You are not my enemy. Our enemy is ignorance and hopefully we will both conquer it before our next lives begin and we have to start this all over again. TI

Hi Nickolay, de_Paradise and others. I regret using the term 'cat napping' in this context. I'm not actually talking about falling asleep during meditation. I'm talking about the idea that TM makes the meditator dip down into the state of deep sleep with no dreams, or the substrate consciousness, but only for a short while, and one does not learn how to sustain it. If one is lucky enough to maintain awareness throughout the dipping, then s/he realizes that something has happened, and one comes back refreshed, like having taken a cat nap. This process, to me, is a bout of laxity. They call TM the "relaxation response" for a reason. I do appreciate your comments. TI

Hi K Thank you very much for your response. Yes! I always thought that a good teacher should be able to sense where you were at, what you required and would help you to achieve enlightenment. That is the main purpose isn't it? The practices are just secondary and should be tailored to the student's level of attainment. Slowly I learned that AYP techniques come first, before the student. And then I learned it was Yogani's way or the highway. Instead of answering my questions in an enlightened way, turning me around and proving to me through his behaviour that his system works, he frowned on analysis, downplayed the acquisition of true knowledge, attacked my practices and then booted me out. Thank you for listening. I appreciate it. It means allot to me. TI

Hi Chang, Gee, you did not answer some of my questions. Although you are familiar with TM, are you familiar with AYP? I have been examining AYP for 5 years now. And you know what my next question is going to be if you say that you haven't examined AYP that closely? I can see by the fact that you have practiced TM since 1977 that you have a major part of your ego invested in the technique. But, I see that you are perhaps in a position to answer some questions about TM. I have several books on TM and it seems that the majority of conclusions is that TM is something that elicits the relaxation response (cat napping). I have seen some posts by long-term TM meditators such as yourself, some whom have practiced for over 40 years (Rosenthal, Lynch). Yet, they claim no special powers, no hints at enlightenment and cleverly dismiss the classic signs of attainment as either unwanted, a distraction or not what it's all about. In Alan Walace's book called "The Attention Revolution", he writes this: And to clearly define 'extrasensory perception', he follows that with this: So my question to you is very simple. If the realization of shamatha, which is the stilling of the mind, results in extrasensory abilities, after practicing TM for over 35 years, have you realized any of these abilities? Has your practice of TM stilled your mind? I have other questions too. Did the TM organization not have a vow of privacy as to the TM meditation procedures? Isn't 'selling the technique' a violation of this vow? Did the TM organization ever combine Kriya Yoga practices such as pranayama or raising the kundalini along with the meditation routine? Did they ever talk about kundalini? Did the TM organization ever emphasize the 'power of the mantra' and it's power to purify? Hopefully you will be able to remove the mystery for everyone and prove that TM is a viable path to self-realization, that it does lead to Primordial Consciousness and is not just dipping down into the substrate consciousness (that from which all form arises and dissolves back into). I look forward to your responses. TI

Hi BillB There is not much information about mantra repetition in Alan Wallace's books. In "Mind in a Balance" he does mention that the mantra repetition of "AUM" while focusing on the breath is an ancient technique. What Dr. Wallace is saying, though, is that mantra repetition is not used to produce the state of Shamatha, which is a state of calming the mind. He does not say much else about mantra repetition. But you know, I have some books about Buddhist mantra repetition and to me, the Buddhist mantras are like prayers, designed to bring about an effect, be it cleansing, manifestion or invoking the aid of a deity. Dr. Wallace is saying that Anapanasati practice is the method to bring about Shamatha. If you'd like to learn more about Anapanasati, see these links: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html http://www.virtualsynapses.com/2011/08/mindfulness-meditation-on-breath.html Also, for a very clear, excellent book on Shamatha, see: http://www.amazon.com/Attention-Revolution-Ph-D-Alan-Wallace/dp/1458783898 TI

Hi Chang You might be doing your fellow bums a great diservice. Have you really studied the AYP teachings? Are you familiar with how they deviate from the classic Yoga practices? Ever hear of Patanjali? While you may practice the classic mantra repetition, do you have any experience with TM or 'effortless mantra repetition'? Tell you what, read this http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/21469-patanjalis-sutras-and-samyama-questions/ and then we'll talk. TI

Hi K I tell you what. Here is the last post that I wrote on the AYP forum that caused me to become banned. It was a reply to chit-ananda51. I've bolded my statements: So, K, perhaps it is sour grapes. Or just poor treatment and answers from Yogani. For example, this was my post to Yogani back in 2010: and this was his reply: So you see, Yogani said "Any or all of the variations in experience (and mantra) you mentioned above are fine. The particulars are not important. What is important is the intention. " So, here he has told me that subvocalizing the mantra is fine, thinking the mantra is fine, visualizing the mantra as letters is fine, etc.. !!! TM is a very simple procedure, which is why they have personalized instruction to prevent the meditator from straying too far from the simple procedure. Here, apart from not answering most of my questions, Yogani says that "the particulars are not important".. What a bunch of bad advice. The particulars are important. If you visualize that mantra, that is not TM. If you think and don't do the subvocalization part, you won't stimulate the medulla and cause it to shut down. Then Yogani says "If the intention is to analyze, control, question, modify, report, etc., this will not be meditation." Well, duh! Of course it isn't meditation, You don't analyze, control, question or report while you are meditating. How ridiculous even to suggest this. Then, in ignorance of Buddhist meditation techniques where you progress through stages (like anapanasati) and use the signs (nimittas) to determine when to change the style and objects of meditation, Yogani says "All meditation procedures involve systematically going beyond the object, whether it be mantra, breath, nada, vision, sensation, concept, or whatever. " This is just false. A blanket statement with no bearing or respect for other traditions.. And!!! Isn't Patanjali's last three limbs of yoga about the subject and object fusing together revealing a state of samadhi? To me, that is not going beyond the object (which is a form of duality), but a joining to the object. And, Yogani slickly implies that his methods are 'proven' methods. Yes, TM is "proven" to induce a relaxation response, and Kriya Yoga is 'proven' to have intense reactions by most meditators, but where has it been proven that the combination of the two is a formula for enlightenment? It appears to me to be a formula for overload, grasping to ecstatic sexual energies and deceiving one's self in the name of the Divine. K. Now, I really don't expect you or anyone to read all of that. But yes, sour grapes! You bet. TI

Hi, During last night's meditation I was practising Alan Wallace's stage nine shamantha technique and I discovered how to stop the breath. I don't mean holding the breath, or filling up with air until you no longer feel the need to breathe. I'm talking about simply stopping the breath with no need to breathe, no urge to breath. And, at the same time, a mysterious surge of fine energy comes out and seems to support the life function. The technique that I was practising was this: 1) Sit in a meditative posture, with eyes closed. 2) Focus on the empty space before the face ( I extended it out about 1 foot) 3) After a while, turn your attention fully backwards and focus on whom is perceiving. I started the meditation and focused on the space, noticed my breathing which was somewhat rapid and just relaxed my face. My breathing rate increased somewhat but that is normal. After a few seconds, I turned my attention directly backwards into the back of the head, to try to sense the watcher, or the perceiver. As I did this I noticed that my breathing slowed down quite a bit. Now, I have done many hours of 'being in the self' or 'just being' and I think I am pretty good at isolating the 'ego' or the sense of small sense which resided in the back of the head around the medulla area. This time, I had a pretty good sense of 'me', and there was some golden light around 'me'. I moved my attention back out to the space in front of my face. My breathing resumed it's normal pace. I moved my attention backwards towards the self again. Well, I've always thought that God was looking through my eyes, so perhaps it isn't the self.. I don't know. Regardless, my breathing slowed right down and stopped!!! WHAT WAS THAT? I had no urge to breathe at all. I quickly brought my attention back towards the space in front of my face and my breathing resumed. I moved my attention back inwards to that spot, where the medulla is and my breathing stopped again. I went back and forth and I realized that when I was focusing outwards, the breathing occurs. When I was focused on the "i", my breathing stopped. There was no urge to breathe. There was no feeling of suffocation, or urgency. It was quite freaky and at the same time, awesome. Then I noticed that when I was focusing inwards there was a fine current of energy coming out from the medulla and progressing into my head. I thought to myself, I have discovered Yogananda's secret about the medulla being the mouth of God! I sat in the breathless state for 10 seconds or so and then decided to end it and go to bed. The whole meditation lasted only 10 minutes. I didn't want to push it nor overload anything.. Well, I could not sleep. I was so energized!!! Unbelievable. I could see the purple and green pulsing lights, many visions, the dream worlds, planes, nimittas; it was like my consciousness was on fire. This kept me up until around 5:00 am at which time I finally managed to fall asleep. Today, I have lots of heat in the head, upper body and arms. I feel like I am sunburned inside. Despite getting only 2 hours of sleep, I still feel pretty good. Now for the questions: 1) If I stay in the breathless state too long by focusing on that spot in the medulla (or that area), will I die? Is this a dangerous practice? 2) Is the energy that comes out of the medulla the energy that Yogananda talks about, from the mouth of God? 3) Is there mention of this phenomenon in Taosim or Buddism? 3) Have you ever experienced breathlessness by centering on the medulla? If so, for how long? Any comments will be surely appreciated. I feel like I've discovered the key to how the yogis who remain breathless for days, buried in air tight boxes underground, do it. TI

Hi Subtle Thanks for the link. I checked it out. I also found this about hsi: link: http://taoism.about.com/od/meditation/a/Embryonic_Breathing.htm Somehow I don't think that that is what is happening. How I would describe it is that the out-going life-force is reversed and goes back to the medulla. The breathing just stops and there is a flow of something coming out from the medulla. But that is interesting. Thanks. TI

Hi Gatito, I think I understand Nisardatta now. He says "focus on the "I AM"". The I AM is the ego, the small self, in the medulla. Nisargadatta says that the I AM is the door. He says that one must go beyond the door, beyond the I AM. Shattering consciousness is shattering the small self's consciousness, the ego. It is like dying. You pass out. There is no more consciousness. But, as Nisargatta is pointing out, there is something much larger beyond all of that which is always conscious, eternal, aware, infinite. Nisargatta's final message to the world was "Make friends with the life force". This seemed strange to me when I read that in his last book. He really emphasized the vital breath, the role it plays. In my new understanding, the reason the universe exists is because the vital breath is flowing outwards from the source at the medulla. Reversing this vital breath is the key to going back to the beyond.. TI

Hi Jeff, You know, what you have written makes no sense to me. Especially if primordial consciousness is infinite, timeless and incapable of being shattered. You speak like you have experienced nirvikalpa samadhi. Is this so or are you just regurgitaing something your read somewhere? TI

Hi Jeff, Thank you for confirming. I would not want to go to a "retreat" where people who attend damage their brain cells with alcohol right before the retreat. And, did you see Yogani there? TI

Hi Ish: Thank you! I will check into that. Gatito: I wonder if that is possible.. It could be very interesting to see what he says.. Harmonious Emptiness: Thanks for the response. Yeah though I walk through the valley of darkness.. Boy: You said it. "I know nothing about this particular technique".. I think you should have quit at that point. I don't mean to be rude, but, the breathless state is not 'stupid'. It is the goal of Kriya Yoga. And the mouth of God is a spiritual term for the medulla: link: http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/Mouth_of_God.htm But no hard feelings I have been doing some research: link: http://www.ananda.org/ask/342/achieving-the-breathless-state-in-meditation/ link: http://www.ananda.org/meditation/support/articles/yogananda.html link: http://www.kriyayoga-yogisatyam.org/Articles/Praanayama.htm link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahiri_Mahasaya Lahiri Mahasaya: link: http://srfglassonion.blogspot.ca/2011/12/flicker-shows-strongmen-and-yogis.html link: http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap12.php link: http://yogasutras.com/Chidakasha_Gita_of_Nityananda_Julian_Lee.html It is kind of neat to think that through developing the various stages of anapanasati, combining it with Nisargadatta's "focus on the sense of I AM" which led me into the golden egg at the medulla, and by learning about how to calm the body and mind through different stages of Shamatha learned by studying and practising "Alan Wallace's Stilling the Mind book", I would eventually discover exactly how to cause the breathless state willfully. And it has nothing to do with controlling the breath, pranayama, or forcing the breath in any way. It is like touching a switch and the breath just shuts off. It's like withdrawing your awareness or lifeforce back into the center of your being. If there are any Kriya Yoga experts out there who have experienced, I would love to hear from you. Thanks again for the comments so far.. TI

Hi K Yes, it is not good to have chi/prana/energy build up in the head, no matter what system your are practising. You know, the idea that maybe AYP forumers might venture over here is kind of comforting. Perhaps they will learn that the annonymous anti-guru inventor of yoga called Yogani doesn't really know his stuff. Yes, I am very concerned. Yogani has people 'working' for free, giving yoga lessons (and booze) at retreats. He has people translating his works into other languages. He is propagating his deviated "Patanjali's Yoga Sutras", spreading false ideas that dharana and dhyana involve no effort or continous concentration. There are so many people who start the practices because they are easily accessible online, practice for a few months or years, and then start asking questions. They have no idea what they got themselves into. People are posting on the forum, perhaps for years (like me), and then when you start to question the AYP methodologies and customized practices, you find yourself banned and blocked from even viewing your posts. AYP is a con job and Yogani is very slick. He doesn't realize he is hurting allot of people, by taking advantage of them. Just the other day someone posted a post about the kriyas they were having during meditation. From reputable gurus, the message has always been to sit and let kundalini do her thing. It is intelligent and she knows what has to be done. But this is the advice that Yogani gives: link: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11693 To be clear, Yogani is saying that automatic yoga (kriyas), which are automatic by definition, are caused by the practioner overindulging/allowing them. How can that be? Kriyas are involuntary motions, kundalini cleansing the nadis, breaking blockages, doing her work. How is this incumbant on the practioner's indulging or allowing? Yogani is suggesting, in his slick way, that we should not let kundalini do her thing. Yogani says to go back and do the DM (TM Style meditation). He also attributes "automatic yoga" as having volition and a goal (It wants it all right now..). Kriyas are an effect caused by kundalini, they are not capable of desire or goal seeking. This is quite different from what Swami Satyananda Saraswati said in his book called "Kundalini Tantra". Note: In the following passage, he specifically states that the practioner need not meditate anymore. I guess when you remain annonymous, don't participate in retreats or have any contact with members, it's easy to make a 'one size fits all' kind of answer, as Yogani has done. But he is doing a disservice to his members by straying from the classic yoga principles and inventing his own 'solutions'. TI

Hi Yuanqi The irony of all of this is that AYP preaches about staying away from the crown, and Yogani has written much about 'premature crown opening'. Yet, the AYP Spinal Breathing includes performing the bandhas and sambhavi. When I learned the Red Phoenix technique (Kunlun), it was said that rolling the eyes upwards opens the crown. Just two days ago, I found this about sambhavi (bolding is mine): link: http://www.rainbowbody.com/asana/bandha.htm So, as AYP teaches to stay away from the crown, their main practice of spinal breathing with sambhavi, is taking it's practioners directly to the crown!!! Is it true that the Ajna bandha takes the energy directly to the crown? Isn't AYP saying, 'don't play with guns' in one breath, and then in the other breath saying "here is your gun"? Thanks for your responses. TI

Hi Astralc Thanks for your impressions. Yes, I agree, Tim sounds like he is capable of thinking for himself, although AYP is designed in such a way that it exerts an awful lot of pressure on the unsuspecting to conform to their practices. That's what happens when you practice heavy moderation and prune out any inquisitive or dissident views like they do on that forum and site. TI

Hi Again, I found this post today at AYP. It seems there is no end to the bad advice that AYP can give out. Apart from the brainwashing that the AYP members regurgitate (that Deep Meditation, TM in disguise, and Spinal Breathing will solve all your problems), there is a myth which was invented by Yogani that the crown is dangerous and should be stayed away from. If the crown was so dangerous why does the Holy Spirit enter the body through the crown? In this post, an older member of AYP called Christi (a male) is downplaying the effectiveness of the Cosmic Orbit, the Inner Smile and tries to push AYP teachings. He even has the stupidity to call AYP's teachings "scientific". Since when has science even come close to measuring chakras, astral substances, mental or causal bodies? In his first post, Tim is wondering why, after 20 years of Taoist practices like the MC Orbit and the Inner Smile, he hasn't felt kundalini rush up the spine in a great explosive event. Here is the link: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11677 Later, someone asks him about his practices and he responds: And here is the start of the brainwashing.. Stay away from the crown, and start Deep Meditation because inner silence purifies the subtle body. Who said that TM (or Deep Meditation) purifies the "subtle body"? Have you ever heard such nonsense? How does conditioning yourself to take brief cat naps and dip into deep sleep, which is what TM does, purify the 'subtle body'? Apart from missing the fact that Tim has already awakened his kundalini through his Taoist practices, he only really wanted to know why he hasn't experienced the major rush up the spine.. He tries to defend himself and his Taoist practices.. But Christi keeps pushing his 'scientific guru's faulty' teachings.. Scientific! In some his lessons and posts Yogani said that he suspected that most kundalini problems were caused by 'premature crown openings'. How do you prove that scientifically? What a bunch of BS. Is Mantak Chia wrong? Does the MC Orbit make kundalini worse? Is the Inner Smile ineffective? If anything, Tim's post prooves that the Taoist Techniques are effective and have prevented the kundalini evils that AYP has propagated through it's erroneous assumptions and lack of knowledge. AYP practitioners are plagued with overloads. I believe this is a result of combining TM-style meditation with customized Kriya practices. By stimulating the flow of prana through customized Kriya practices and then carrying that prana to the deep unconscious through TM-style 'dipping' (which is Deep Meditation), it quickly overloads the substrate consciousness and causes overloads. Perhaps the AYP members should have a good look at what they are inflicting on unsuspecting seekers and realize that mabye the annonymous scientific Yogani just doesn't know what he is talking about. Perhaps another question that someone should ask AYP is where exactly does Deep Meditation take you, if not directly into the crown.. TI

Hi Rex Thank you for the info and introducing me to the term "Delog". There is so much to learn! I also have a book by Alan Wallace about Dream Yoga which I haven't read yet. I have sort of skimmed it. It reminds me of the old practice of "looking at your hands" throughout the day, by Carlos Casteneda. By getting into the habit of doing that during the day, when you dream you will look at your hands and you will realize that you are dreaming. That is when the fun begins! I did that a few times when I was 15 yrs old. The first time I succeeded I found myself in an old style ghost town in a desert somewhere. All the colors were very bright and clear. Very crisp. Better than High Def TV. Once I was familiar with the surroundings and what state I was in, I told myself, "If I am dreaming I should be able to fly". So I soared up into the sky. When I was up there, I thought to myself "I should be able to fly through the ground". So I flew straight at the ground, like I was going to fly through it. But when I hit the ground, an outline of my body appeared and I experienced a kind of a shock wave which woke me up. It was so much fun! TI