Tibetan_Ice

Hi CarsonZi Einstein's statement is not a refutation of the inadequacy of the mind. It is not a reason to abandon the mind as a limited tool... The mind is all we have. The mind has components to it and they all work in concert. Components like intuition, memory, imagination, analysis, reasoning... What Einstein was saying is that you still use the mind, just that you have to think outside of the box or use your mind differently. Einstein also said: You said: Er, well, yes it can, it does and you should appreciate it rather than abandoning it. You learn the methods of practice using your mind. You use your mind to learn how to stop the mind and go beyond. Without a mind, you could never learn how to go beyond the mind. Words are all we have. If someone hadn't told you about their experience of going beyond the mind, of stilling the mind, of experiencing samadhi, you wouldn't even know about it. Granted, words are limited by the consciousness that apprehends them, by the cultural influence and the capacity of the mentality, but words are all we have and we have to make the best use of them. Describing experiences of being beyond the thinking mind is not pointless. I've had many experiences of stopping the mind and many others have too. We all try to describe those experiences. The descriptions may not all be the same, but most of them are when you start to examine them closely. They do point to something beyond, something incomprehensible, and to the superconscious or extremely intelligent, comprehensible. How else could the Buddhists have mapped levels of samadhi or jhanas? Well, yes, you can instruct someone in a practice, to have the same experience that you have had and one would logically assume that if the experience is the same, then the realization of that truth will be the same. Further, many yogic texts tell about shaktipat, about enlightenment on contact... SRF teaches that if you put a strong magnet next to a weak one, eventually the weaker magnet will become just as strong as the strong one. Enlightenment by close association! Then you haven't experienced superconsciousness, or unity consciousness. However, the more important question is: "If God is all there is, and we are all manifestations of God, do you have the right to interfere with God's creation by awakening people out of the dream?" TI

Hi GuruYoga, Thank you for pointing out this article. James Swartz has touched upon some issues which I believe are the result of the two vectors coliding; the 'top down' approach versus the 'looking upwards' approach. You can't mix the two otherwise you end up with nonsensical statements like "if we don't exist we are not responsible for our actions", or "what is wrong with right now unless we think about it". The neo-advaitists that I'm familiar with are John Wheeler, Sailor Bob and Rodney Stevens. After reading their books I was left with a feeling that still something was missing.. You have to do some kind of action to precipitate the understanding, to realize it experientially, otherwise the concepts just don't stick. And it is funny, but I recently came accross this ebook called "Autobiography of a Jnani". link: http://www.rajivkapu...-of-a-Jnani.pdf Perhaps the neo-advaitists have just some of the wisdom part but they have missed the 'samadhi power' part. This is what Edji says about neo-advaitism in that ebook: TI

Hi CarsonZi Just for clarification here: As I recall, you did offer to show them to me, which I declined. Sorry, I interpreted that as a slippery slope that might have lead to more than just looking. Here is what I have. The dinner was before the retreat. I've wiped out the names and a few sentences. : You know, I used to be a drug addict too. It kind of goes hand in hand with being a musician and growing up in the 70's. I'm kind of sensitive to all of that. I'm so happy I am not into that anymore and have not had a drink or any kind of recreational drug for over 35 years now. Spirituality and drugs don't mix well. You know, you posted something on the forum a month ago about being stoned while driving, how you passed a police car and threw out half a joint. Then you had some realizations.. remember? I was going to comment on the forum but I knew it would get banned. So here it is now: I thought to myself, here is an AYP leader, driving in the city stoned. You are not doing anyone a service by talking about being high while driving, considering your position at AYP. I realize that Yoga saved your life and that you managed to quit hard drugs and that is great. Truly. But when I read your post, it made me wonder, if yoga is so good, why do you need to smoke pot? Is yoga just another trip for you? At one point I also considered how nice it would be to hit the knives again and then meditate. But I want the real thing, not some temporary revelation induced by a chemical high and the destruction of the intricate network of etheric pathways, nadis and brain cells. So, your post does have an influence on people, especially on old drug addicts. People will judge you by what you do, not by what you say. It is important to set a good example. Integrity is a big word. Now I know you have a great capacity for revealing too much despite the consequences, as I do. It is a bad combination. I would suggest that perhaps we should just drop this conversation as I have little interest in picking through every item in the garbage dump. Sincerely, I wish you all the best in your quest. May God bless you and keep you safe. TI

Hi MetalNun Please do not take this reply personally. In it I am addressing your comments and it in no way reflects upon my belief that you are an accomplished lady of the heart. Yes, unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any requirement or qualification for becoming an AYP leader. What does that tell you? You know, the first I went for an AYP Satsang, I was offered a beer before the meditation. Afterwards, it was made very clear to me that potent drugs were available, were being kept in the home. Also, a reliable source told me that they attended an AYP retreat, and that around 50% of the people attending were drinking alcohol. To me, alcohol and spiritualism don't mix. It also tells me that AYP doesn't have any control or standards when it comes to their retreats.. But I'm sure everyone had a great time.. First off, I've never said that AYP doesn't work. That was never the question. Yogani has thrown together some very powerful practices from various sources. Just sambhavi mudra alone can produce astounding results, not only visions but activate kundalini and produce kriyas. The mudras and bhandas are very powerful in their own right. Just slowing the breathing down to the point where it incurs oxygen deprivation and lack of prana is also very very powerful, as in Spinal Breathing. You have to really know what you are doing so that you don't irevocably damage yourself.. What I am concerned about is, among the many other things that I've listed, that when someone creates their own brand of yoga by combining separate teachings, without a correct understanding of the teachings, and in doing so they customize practices along the way, it either renders the practices ineffective, or so powerful that they damage the practioner. I ask you this, have you ever heard of TM style mantra meditation being combined with Kriya Yoga practices? What I am familiar with, for meditation in Kriya Yoga, is the So Ham, or the Hong Sau techniques, or Dhyan Yogi's AUM meditation and they all follow the breath. Following the breath is a good thing because on the attentive exhale, the body can rid itself of excess energy. When you practice Kriya yoga and then follow it by TM style mantra meditation, isn't there a risk that you'll take the excess prana you've accumulated and fry your etheric, astral and mental bodies? Analysis never gets old. It is how we learn. It leads to knowledge. If we have experiences and we don't analyze and understand, nothing is gained. Most all scientific discoveries and true knowledge throughout history have been discovered by the intellect. Despite what most people think, yoga has it's natural truths too, they only have to be discovered. You know, AYP is lacking in telling people what the rules are. I didn't find out that I couldn't delete my posts or edit them until this summer. When I inquired about it, Yogani had told me that they had changed the rules two years ago, yet AYP was still adverstising that you edit and delete your posts anytime. Even then, it took some undercover work to get AYP to change that particular advertising, as it was not done when I mentioned it. I still can't edit or delete my posts from prior to 2 weeks ago but at least AYP is being up front about that now, if you want to consider this as being up front: If the rules at AYP are that older members should not post to newbies, that all posts to newbies must support the AYP teachings, then that is what AYP should advertise. Where in AYP does it say that? Where are all these rules posted? Seems to me that the rules are only pulled out and used as justification to ban members when they become overly inquisitive or start exhibiting unwanted behaviour. Now is that fair and honest? TI

Hi Jijaji I'm sorry you feel that way. I have found your contributions most enlightening. If I walk away, then countless other people will fall prey to the same trap that I fell into. Unfortunately, sincerity does not compensate for lack of scholarship and proper understanding. Ever hear the expression, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"? If a person is going to invent their own yoga, then they have an obligation to tell people that that is what they are doing, not try to disguise it so that it is more appealing to the masses. If you feel that your posts are offending someone, then go back and delete them, or edit out the content. But thanks for your contributions. TI

Dwai and GuruYoga Thank you so much for your comments. It is so nice to hear supportive statements that Knowledge and Understanding play a crucial role in the skillful path of spiritual development. TI

Hi Jijaji Don't be sorry! But that's nice of you just the same. Here is another example of Yogani's teachings: 1) He says the end of the sushumna is actually through the tunnel at the brows, unlike conventional teachings which states that the sushumna goes straight out of the top of the head. 2) He says that the star is heaven and that you don't actually do anything with it! link: http://www.aypsite.org/92.html To AYP, it is all scenery. To other systems of teachings, the star is milestone, a goal, something to seek, it is not just scenery. For example, in Saraswati's book called "Kundalini Tantra" he has written about The Kriya Yoga Practices which culminate into the realization that the star is the doorway to the causal self. Again, there is a reference to "the constant, unbroken progression of awareness", as in Patanjali's Sutras.. The last of the main Kriyas presented in Saraswati's book say this: So, here is another teaching that is saying that the star is a goal, that the main kriyas are designed to produce this experience and realization. And, in this final step, the final practice of Saraswati's book, he instructs dhyana on the star. Now, how can that be "just scenery"? How many AYP practitioners have seen the star, yet, because Yogani doesn't put any emphasis on it, simply ignored it and mechanically continued their practices? I have seen the lighted filaments like a film pulsing outwards and inwards in rhythm with the breath. I have seen the light many times. Two weeks ago, after switching to the AUM mantra with sustained concentration (instead of effortlessly letting go), it appeared as a very bright small light towards the end my meditations. During the next day's meditations, it was bigger and brighter. On the third day, the star was bigger than me, so bright and clear, with dark blue around the rays, and so close! I have seen the golden egg too. I have gone inside the egg! But it wasn't when I was doing AYP practices. It was when I was turning my attention back towards the source during meditations, back towards "who was watching" with all my effort and concentration. So, technique and understanding in practice is everything. Experiences count and are not just scenery. If something is not working, it is your right and duty to find out why. Don't let them tell you that the benefits of yoga are a better life living in the world. Learn to think for yourself, experiment, have fun. Just don't follow someone's water-downed misguided teachings blindly.. And anytime someone tells you to quit analyzing, to shut up and just do the practices, for years and and years and ignore the scenery, run! TI

Hi Jeff Harsh? Now who exactly is being harsh? I judge a person by how I am being treated. At AYP, Yogani was coercing me into towing the AYP line, as I'm sure he has done to many others whom he has banned over the years. Chinna, Manigma, etc.. Pehaps you have not received emails from Yogani like I have. Like this one (bolded instead of quoted): "TI, you simply are not qualified to advise on the AYP system. Your ever-diverging approach to spiritual practice is inconsistent with AYP, and should be reserved for yourself, and not suggested to anyone who is attempting to engage in the AYP approach. It is requested that you limit your posting to the "other systems" forum category, and nowhere else. This is the only way we can continue to accommodate you." or this one: (bolded instead of quoted) " Hi TI: I wrote this to the moderators this morning after they rejected your last post, and rightly so. Do take it to heart... ---------------------- Hi All: The truth is, AYP does not work for everyone. There seems to be a minority that it does not work for, for whatever reason. This can be said about any system. One size does not fit all. I believe AYP goes further than most systems in attempting to adjust to individual differences through open source application, self-pacing, etc. But it is still not going to be the answer for everyone. Apparently not for TI. If this is the case, and his only purpose here is to paint the whole thing black for everyone, then he is not welcome. Thanks for moderating it. If he insists on continuing along this line, he will be blocked from posting. The guru is in you." And further, after 4 years or AYP meditation and practices, I came upon a realization about mantra meditation, that perhaps I should have been concentrating awareness instead of saying the mantra and letting it go in silence, which is the AYP method. So I started examining the practice.. I posed these questions on the forum: And, instead of answering my questions, Yogani attacked my practices. Very skillful, isn't it? My questions obviously expose the inconsistencies in the AYP practices, and instead of addressing each question, Yogani (and other AYP members start attacking me.. ) (bolded instead of quoted) "Hi TI: Everything you have asked is covered in the lessons. You are confused (and often confuse others) because you are analyzing endlessly instead of settling in with a practice. There can be no help for it except for you to surrender your mind to a singular path, AYP or other, which has not happened yet. I am waiting... Your mega-topic "Where am I at now?" says it all. You will not know where you are at until you can stop asking the question. That is the crux of it. It has nothing to do with your latest list of questions or doubts. Sorry, there is little else I can say to you at this point. We have been going in circles with this stuff for years. It should be highlighted as the primary issue you face in your practice, and so it has been. All the best! The guru is in you. PS: I am moving this topic to "others system" because it is not really an AYP practice question. It is more dissection and comparative analysis, which is not helpful for those seeking to stabilize a daily practice of deep meditation." We have not been going in circles with stuff for years. I just had started asking questions about Deep Meditation. Further, you see the action of Yogani of moving topics to other folders to make AYP folders seem like one big happy family, customizing and altering his forum for positive effect. Then later, in the same post, Yogani says this: (bolded instead of quoted) "Hi TI: You mentioned 5-6 teachings/traditions in your last post. You are never going to be able to develop a stable practice that way. Just meditate with one method, and cut the mind crap. It is that simple. As for AYP revealing too much, no one asked you to skip ahead and try to absorb everything at once. There are no contradictions for those who start at the beginning and go through the middle and end stage practices at the appropriate times. You want to analyze and understand everything (everywhere) before you even begin. So you have not yet begun real practice, which is doing one thing for at least a few years. Is it the hammer's fault if the carpenter keeps hitting his thumb with it? Sorry to be so blunt, but the analysis obsession is the primary obstruction to your progress. More analysis (like you are doing above) will not solve it. You will not get your practice in gear until you let it go. The mind cannot grasp the essence of good practice, or its results. This is why we use simple mechanical techniques. This enables the mind to let go in time. It is not complicated. If we keep dissecting with the mind, keeping the mind in front, there can be no real progress. You cannot analyze your way to enlightenment. Neither can you analyze your way into a stable long term practice. It just ain't going to happen until you learn to let it go. In spiritual practice, the role of the mind is to make consistent long term choices, not to endlessly analyze and second guess. The first assures our progress. The second holds us back. TI, this is all you are going to hear from me, because it is the only thing that matters in your case, and for all of us. I believe you have heard it from here quite a few times already. And when you do not hear from me when you raise your next batch of doubts and questions, you may want to read this post again. All the best! The guru is in you." Here Yogani has forgotten that I had been in AYP for four years and misleads the readership by suggesting that I shouldn't be reading ahead! And again, instead of addressing my questions and concerns, he evades the concerns and again focuses on my practices, implying that I don't have a regular practice. What a deception! But it worked. Other AYP members start hitting on me for "lack of consistent practice" although they know nothing about my practices at that point. Then Later in the thread, an AYP member called Joe posted this: "my own way would be to use affirmations to draw energy away from analysis and doubt and apply it to devotion through bhakti."so Yogani follows through with this: (bolded instead of quoted) "PS: I do not recall TI ever stating a desire to transform his propensity to analyze into a more effective mode of spiritual endeavor. Coming to and stating that desire is surely the first step, as Joe has done so clearly above. Obviously, we cannot tell someone to do it, even though we often do. Ultimately, it has to come from within each of us." Unbelievable! Now Yogani, who speaks out of the pitfalls of having a living guru, who says it leads to dependancy and possible ill treatment, is playing guru and trying to get me to drop analytical analysis of AYP practices and practice a more effective mode of spiritual practice (like bhakti). The two are unrelated. Analysis of practices is a separate thing from practices. One does not analyze practices while one is practising. One picks a practice and performs it. I have every right to ask about clarification of practices. Then, Yogani tries to downplay the importance of intelligence, which later he calls scholarly analysis: (bolded instead of quoted) "Hi TI: Unfortunately, intellectual intelligence counts for nothing in yoga. In fact, it is a liability, as we have been discussing. Perhaps this is why Jesus said, "The meek shall inherit the earth." Fortunately, the kind of intelligence we need for yoga is in infinite supply in all of us. All we have to do is let go into it, becoming it. This is what the simple techniques of yoga are about. There is nothing more to understand than that. The guru is in you. " Yes, it is a common phenomenon for teachers to quote Jesus. I suppose it makes them believe that they have more credibility. However, I found that Jesus quote totally unrelated to "intellectual intelligence", so I wonder why he put it in there.. Then, later, he writes back to Joe, making it seem like analysis is my primary tool for travelling the spiritual path. Twist away! I was asking for clarification of the AYP Deep Meditation technique and wondering why it was something simple and yet through Yogani's writings, became an all-round swiss army knife that not only brought one to inner silence, but purified and seemed to be the prerequisite for all practises. (bolded instead of quoted) "I have been wracking my brain trying to come up with a justification for traveling the spiritual path using analysis as the primary tool, so I could offer TI and others with this orientation some sort of handle to proceed according to that tendency. But I have come up with nothing. It is totally beyond the mind (and the wracked brain), and that's a good thing. But not for those stuck in mental analysis to the detriment of long term stable practice. Not sure how those with strong analytical tendencies can get out of this." Further, Jnana Yoga is the yoga of knowledge. Advaita is also a form of Knowledge or realization. Analysis is a valid path, but that is not my concern. I was trying to get clarity about the AYP practices and why they do not resemble classical yoga practices. Anytime anyone twists questions and makes it seem like the person who is asking questions is lost because they don't have regular practices, it disturbs me. I was being mistreated and abused. Yogani had no right to say what he did. I was asking sincere questions, albeit questions which required a little more skill to answer. Further, blackmailing me into suppressing my opinions and questions by banning me from posting to certain topics and threatining to block all my posts is not something I take kindly to. I thought that "Freedom of Speech" was a constitutional right in USA? In no way have any of posts been malicious or offensive in nature. Yet, here is the AYP guideline that was emailed to me: (bolded instead of quoted) " A forum moderator has decided to reject your post for the following reason: Your post is not approved because it contains statements about the authenticity, validity or status of principles, persons or scriptures in religions or spiritual teachings. People have very different and often deep-seated opinions about these subjects, and therefore discussions about them will often create heated debates. Such can be interesting, revealing and entertaining, but would take away focus from spiritual practices. Attempts to discredit by logic, scholarship or any other means, of gurus, religious or public figures (guru bashing), should also be avoided, for the same reason. The AYP forum is intended to be a medium for discussion of Advanced Yoga Practices and related subject matters, and "other systems" is for discussing other systems, not AYP." How is that for forcing all AYP members to refrain from expressing their opinions? And doesn't that tell you that most all opinions on the forum are going to be in support of AYP? Just one side of the dualistic spectrum. So you see, Jeff, I have no more time for AYP. I feel sorry for it's members, that they are asked to wear blinders and follow the customized practices without question. I feel sorry for new members, whom, despite their symptoms and spiritual background are told to start Deep Meditation and Spinal Breathing regardless. And I feel sorry for the general public who come across AYP because they have no idea of the background politics that occur at AYP. You know, I was reading the other in Saraswati's book called "Kundalini Tantra", this: What does that say about AYP's general suggestion to start Deep Meditation and Spinal Breathing, regardless of even knowing what the person's energetic state is in? And lastly, Buddha said: " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. " TI

Hi Jijaji And there are other implications as well. What I was going to ask you is this. Are you familiar with Swami Satyananda Saraswati and his book called "Kundalini Tantra"? Because he has the same last name as Shankaracharya Brahmananda Saraswati, is there any relation to Adi Shankara as far as lineages go, or are these non-related generic last names (Saraswati)? Also, who is the most respected source for information on the practices of Kriya Yoga and Raja Yoga? Thanks. TI

Hi SereneBlue I would recommend Saraswati's book called "Kundalini Tantra". Not only does he explain the generic term bindu, but he explains the typical usage in kundalini and even has a section for devloping the bindu. link: http://www.light-weaver.com/vortex/pdfs/Kundalini.Tantra.by.Satyananda.Saraswati.pdf TI

Yogani is an annonymous male who wrote a sensationlistic book of fiction called "The Secrets of Wilder", in which John Wilder invents kundalini yoga entirely on his own through trial and error. Yogani has written several very short books about his interpretation of the Eight Limbs of Yoga and more. They contain many nebulous terms which he uses interchangeably throughout his writings, such as "inner silence', "stillness in action", "ecstatic conductivity", "bliss consciousness" etc.. He has published his 'lessons' online and hosts a forum from which, if you do not support his views or pose too many disruptive questions, you will be banned. I have seen many astute minds and excellent communicators become banned for supporting their non-AYP views on the forum. What remains is mostly a tribe of parrots and brown-nosers who push AYP practices as the solution for all. Several people on his forum have no bones about declaring that they are enlightened. Further, if you post on his forum, you will not be able to edit or delete your posts after 14 days, yet he advertises that "Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors)". The AYP system is an attempt by Yogani to marry TM, TM-Siddhis and Kriya yoga techniques into a system of yoga. He claims that inner silence is cultivated and that it grows through Deep Meditation. Any topic about chakras is considered "under the hood". In an effort to mitigate the common overloads from cultivating kundalini energy flows, Yogani introduces the idea of self-pacing. After many years of AYP practices, there are some members who cannot perform his practices without severe overload. This problem has not been resolved. According to what Yogani has posted here (next), even he is subject to overloads and claims that "no great sage has been beyond it's effects": Further, experiences are referred to as scenery, and as such don't count for much. In one of his posts, he says this about the other planes: Yogani's main emphasis is on practices and cultivating the neurobiology. He claims to have been doing so for over 40 years. And although it is called "Advanced Yoga Practices", he says that the "Advanced" in "Advanced Yoga Practices" actually refers to the communication media that he uses to disseminate his teachings. If a person were to buy all of his books that he sells through his publishing company, it would cost you a few hundred dollars. His moderators host AYP retreats, yet they have never had the benefit of meeting him in person, nor have they ever received any shaktipat or personal instruction, only through the electronic media. Yogani discounts the importance of shaktipat and a personal guru, thus, his famous expression is "The Guru is in you". Well, that's enough of that. TI

Hi Xabir I think the proper interpretation of that passage is not one which supports or denies the existence or attainment of supranormal powers. There are two points which support my interpretation. 1) It clearly states that "the new arahants mentioned in this discourse had reached at least the first jhana before attaining Awakening.". According to most books I've read about the jhanas, one has to bring to fruition at least the fourth jhana before any supranormal powers are realized. 2) Susima's questions about supranormal powers were denied and dismissed by the monks because such questions show that the questioner had missed the point of the Dhammic path entirely. It is like focusing on the icing instead of the whole cake. However, it is well known that Buddha stopped the raging elephant, replicated himself and appeared as 100 Buddhas floating in the sky, and performed other 'miracles'. I've even read that some Buddhists were taking out the miraculous deeds accomplished by Buddha from texts and writings because it promoted wrong influence, took away from pointing to the correct path. The fruition of enlightenment, according to the Dalai Lama is omiscience, omnipresence and omnipotence. Those are three very big words.. In the book called "Dharma Paths", it is written: Now, I knew some people who have photographic memories but I don't think they are enlightened.. So, I agree with most of what you have said, and I think we've identified that there are different levels of awakening... TI

Hi xabir2005 Thank you for your contribution.. I have a few comments.. Just logically speaking, if the world is illusory and Brahman is the world, then Brahman is illusory. But I know what it is trying to say.. Patanjali's Sutras are a system whereby you transcend the subject/object dichotomy through samyama and realize the Self. In doing so, one will realize unity consciousness, non-dualism and much more. Unity consciousness is not the end. It is a phenomenon of the heart, which is why the heart can remote view, see anything or anywhere. Thanks for that. Miller seems quite eclectic, that is, he has borrowed his ideas from many sources. The thing I found interesting is how he brought up the idea that feeling one's life force in the hand drains the mind of energy and consciousness. That practice is also mentioned by Eckhart Tolle, and it is called 'sensing the inner body'. Tolle says it is a quick method to Presence. That same technique is also called Anapanasati, or mindfulness of body (and breathing) and was taught by Buddha. You know, generally speaking I like Ken Wilbur, as long as he isn't being too intellectual or political. Some of his descriptions are very clear. The thing I question about neo-advaitists is that somehow they have justified ending the search by ignoring thought, yet they don't have any powers or miracles to convince us of their state. But that's just my preference. I say, if you're enlightened, prove it to me. Appear in my living room. Take me to another plane, or take me shopping in Bombay for a day trip. Heal some people, walk on water, or even just levitate for a while.. or better yet, appear to me in the astral plane and show me something I've never seen before. I would much prefer that than the redefinition of the term "enlightenment" to the point where it reduces itself to something everyone can claim to be (which seems to be a popular practice these days). TI

Hi Jijaji Yes, that is strange. Promoting lust for other women while married in order to cultivate sexual energy in the form of ecstatic bliss just doesn't sit right for me. How is that a form of bhakti? The other lie about that is that Yogani states that this will transform into a higher expression of ecstatic bliss and divine love. Divine love? It takes a great effort to not to fall prey to the sexual sensual sensations and feelings that arise when specifically cultivating the kundalini. Many people are not capable of overcoming the pull. They get caught in the lust, the sensations, the distraction until eventually they might realize that this is not bhakti or even meditation at that point. But it is very hard. In a way, it is a trap. If a person does not succeed in bringing the shakti up into the heart where it can be converted into a higher form of energy, the person is risking getting stuck at the lower chakras. Or, typically, the person cannot handle the energy and becomes overloaded. Yogani is saying that the fantasies will magically transform into divine love.. On another note, what about the temptations of Christ or the temptations of various gurus on their path to the divine? Many say that just before you reach your goal of realizing God, lust will rise up and distract you from your goal. It is a very powerful force. Yet, AYP actually cultivates this aspect and calls it bhakti.. ? You see, to AYP, to Yogani, bhakti is a tool that is used to enhance practices. It is the science of using your devotion to your ishta for purification and enhancing practices.. Here is what Yogani says in Lesson 67 - Bhakti The science of devotion: Yogani is saying that bhakti "was working like a laser beam, slicing through every obstruction in his nervous system." Do you really think that Ramakrishna was performing his bhakti to clear out neurobiological obstructions? But yes, Yogani leads us to believe, not only that we have to clear obstructions, but that we can use bhakti to clear these obstructions. Isn't this opportunistic? True bhakti is pure love of God, not something to be used to render practices more effective.. To AYP, bhakti is a "scientific" tool. Other systems of kundalini teachings will tell you that there is an emotional component to raising the kundalini, that one must also activate and direct the emotional energy, and that helps the flow between the etheric, astral and mental sheaths.. but to cultivate bhakti as the emotional component for alterior purposes just doesn't seem like a proper thing to do. TI

Hi Jijaji While I appreciate the information you have presented concerning the lineage of the Maharashi and the TM movement, I do think that this is straying from the topic. I am familiar with Ramana, especially the writings of David Godman. link: http://davidgodman.org/ There are a few things I found disheartening about Ramana's experience and teachings: 1) He was spontaneously enlightened, so one cannot attribute his state to a specific set of practices. 2) His definition of the Heart is ambiguous, one would conclude that his "heart" is really the atman, but it could be the heart on the right side of the chest. 3) Simply asking the question "Who AM I" needs to be converted to a practice that can be sustained. I would suggest an exercise such as this: - sit in a meditative posture, remain clear and alert - notice a thought. - turn your attention 180 degrees backwards and focus on who or what is perceiving the thought - another thought appears, repeat the 180 degree turn. - a vision appears, do the same. - keep turning your attention back to who or what is perceiving. - try to remain as the perceiver. It will take you to the "Who am I". However, this was is a thread about AYP's deceptions with regards to Patanjali's Yoga Sutras.. Thanks. TI

Hi Link Now Adyashanti is teaching Buddhism! Gee I hope he gets that straight and eventually mentions all of the ingredients. What I've found about Adyashanti is that if you listen to him long enough, eventually he says something that is totally confusing and contradicts what he said previously. I quit studying Adyashanti when he said that "eventually all practices don't work anymore". Yes, ignorance is a form of misperception, but there is a lot more to liberation or freedom from suffering than just a shift of perception. For a more accurate rendition of the end of suffering, try reading the four noble truths. Ignorance or misperception as mentioned by Adyashanti is just a small part of it. See the Four Noble Truths: link: http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html Futher, I fail to see what Adyashanti said as any form of refutation of my statements concerning belief.. Duh.. TI

Hi Link You know, I believe that there are correct techniques and incorrect techniques. There are sincere spiritual people and shams, con artists and teachers who are simply ignorant. All paths do not lead to the same place. There are detours. There are dualities and they have their purpose. There is heaven and hell. Both are essential to maintain each other's existence. I've seen demons and angels. Have you? We do not increase obstacles by labeling right/wrong. These are constructs of the mind and the mind is stilled or bypassed during correct practices or times of devotion. You do not reach enlightenment through the mind, you reach it by turning away from the mind, by seeking the source which isn't in the mind. If you don't feed the mind, it eventually becomes quiet. It does not matter if the intellect is highly tuned and extremely intelligent and capable of labeling everthing. That is not an obstacle. It is an obstacle if that is what you believe, if you are looking for enlightenment in thoughts or the mind. When someone experiences samadhi, the higher samadhis, the mind is incapable of functioning. It can't even think. So how is the content of the mind going to be an obstacle at that time? The obstacle is when someone tells you incorrect techniques to reach samadhi. That's what this is all about. You are propagating myths and you seem to be self-justified. Again, prove it to me that you are just not parroting someone else's teachings. Prove to me by recounting some of your experiences that you are in fact at the top of the mountain looking down, as you seem to be professing by your statements.. We do not increase the obstacles to enlightenment through knowledge, true knowledge. That is your belief. True knowledge is enlightenment. Self Realization is knowledge. One must experience it, but to realize is to know. Divisive actions, if they support the search for clarity, truth and proper practice are not divisive actions but necessary surgery in order to eradicate the disease. As Bhudda said: Reasoning is harmful To fools; It ruins their good fortune And splits open their heads. Dhammapada, 72 You seem to have judged me and where I am at, that I am not home and not capable of getting there. Now how would you know? If the purusha is the atman, and it is brilliant white light, the Self, and someone tells you to ignore the light because it is just scenery, are they doing you a service or an injustice? TI

Hi Jijaji I've been using "AUM NAMA SHIVAYA" quite a bit over the last few years. I first found it on the Himalayan Monks site here: link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/mws/mws_ch-23.html I've also used AUM NAMAH SHIVAYA for activating each chakra. It is quite powerful. The technique is listed here: link: http://www.hardlight.org/om_namah_shivaya.html It is somewhat unconventional, but I think the main principle, which is universal, is that one can activate chakras by using a mechanism to focus attention, will and prana on them. Just breathing into a thought or point of focus with deep attention is quite powerful it it's own right. As a matter of fact, it was through this practice that I discovered that the AUM was causing a roundish white light to appear from the heart and progress towards the ajna. AUM SHANTI TI

Hi Jijaji Actually I found that site about two months ago when I started to question the AYP hidden lineage.. Thanks. TI