Tibetan_Ice

Hi Jijaji You are right. I enjoyed reading that. Thank you very much. In fact I read it over a few times. The part that really struck me is this (aside from the dishonesty, deceit and fraud): A person would conclude that AYP's samyama practice, which contains the same instructions as the TM-Siddhi practice, is also subject to the same analysis. In fact, it can be argued that AYP is supporting the development of siddhis in it's practice of 'samyama', much to the detriment of it's members. The other point I resonate with is the mention of "control of the fluctuations of mind", which is Patanjali's dharana. It again implies effort, willpower: control. It is not an effortless release of a mantra and the following of it as it dissolves into nothingness as AYP's Deep Meditation practice is. Besides, the MMY's method of flying is not what I learned about many years ago. I was taught that levitation is caused by the udana current, from throat to crown, and that once a yogi mastered this current, that is, could augment it's energy and force, levitation and flight was possible. I spent a month when I was a teenager, practising the levitation meditation for an hour a day and I did experience this current. The way I describe it is that it feel like an upside-down waterfall in the center of your neck and head, which pulls you upward. But first, I had to be in samadhi, my body had to dissolve and I would become a cloud of whitish light. It took lots of effort and concentration. Exactly like Patanjali says in samyama. It is also very interesting that in India, selling mantras, spiritual knowledge is frowned upon: Is this true? I did notice that the Gnani Purush does not sell his ceremony called Gnan Vidhi, which is supposed to make a person realize the atman. It is free for all. He does not even solicit donations according to what I read. Isn't it wonderful that some people still have integrity? http://www.dadabhagwan.org/gnan-vidhi-knowledge-of-self/introduction/what-is-gnan-vidhi/ TI

Hi Jijaji I have interpreted your comments to mean that you are saying that Patanjali's Yoga is not related to the Advaita Vedanta. I am familiar with Nisargadatta ("I AM THAT"), and the modern western sprouts like John Wheeler, Sailor Bob and Rodney Stevens. Isn't Nisargadatta's instruction of focusing on the feeling of "I AM" similar to Patanjali's sutra of using the AUM mantra to reveal the Self? Perhaps I am naive, but I've always thought that all true teachings lead to the same source, and that Buddhist's emptiness is the same as the purusha, the same as Eckhart Tolle's presence, the same as Patanjali's Self. They just use different terminology. Arguing about which path is better is just a mind game, because certain paths are better for certain people. We are all at different stages of spiritual evolution and we all have varying dispositions and degrees of ripeness. Digging a little deeper... It says that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was a disciple of Brahmananda Saraswati: link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmananda_Saraswati At the time when I read about Brahmananda Saraswati, I was surprised to learn that he did not wish to become a disciple of a guru who was not "a lifelong celibate". And, it says that Brahmananda Saraswati was initiated into renunciation in 1906 by Swami Krishnananda Saraswati. So, I am digesting the idea that TM came from a lineage of Advaita Vedantists. The comments I have about this are as follows: 1) TM does have a puja ceremony whereby the TM meditator is initiated. This is a puja ceremony. In it, there are vows of secrecy. If a former initate of TM takes the meditation technique and calls it something else and proceeds to teach and sell it, aren't they breaking those vows of secrecy? 2) Because of the celibacy/purity aspect, what do you think Saraswati would think of using TM as part of a kundalini series of practices? What about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi? The other contradiction I have found is that it is said that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi invented TM, but I just found another text that claims that TM is over 5000 years old. link: http://minet.org/Documents/TM-FAQ I guess there is some truth to the saying "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see". That is why it bothers me when someone takes a practice and changes it, twists it and customizes it to their own mental capacities. It also really bothers me when someone claims to be something they are not, or tries to dress themselves in popular clothing hoping to attract followers by claiming "This is Patanjali's Yoga too". Clever authors and manipulators of people are a scourge of society and the easy access to them granted by the internet has made many people vulnerable to these unscrupulous clever people, especially on a forum that bans anyone with opposing opinions or opinions that do not agree with the presented teachings. It kind of reminds me of how some religions would burn heretics, thinking that their survival was based on eliminating the competition. Anyway, thank you for your comments. TI

Hi Link Letting go is a good thing especially as a stand-alone practice but the letting go part in samyama should be the letting go of everything else which is not the object/sutra. You know, there are many kinds of samadhi ranging from light with seed, deep with seed and deep without seed. Here is a link: types of samadhi The interesting thing on that page is this: "Entering samādhi initially takes great willpower and maintaining it takes even more will." My experience with samadhi from practising Deep Meditation has been "a very short bob" into the depth, like a buoy that bobs up and down on a stormy ocean. And upon returning, the mind feels like it is returning from sleep or a happy whiteout. And, if I do not bob, I inevitably progress through to the dreaming stage where I get bombarded with visions and dream-like videos. I believe this is the state of laya, from the quote from Patanjali that I listed previously: "called laya or a state of passive dullness leading to all the miseries of irresponsible mediumship. " Actually I spent a few years doing that, thinking that that was proper technique until I started researching it and found that AYP's definition of dharana is not conventional. My experience with samadhi from the Patanjali's classic samyama is like one meditation today which lasted 35 minutes: Sit in meditation posture, do some kunlun type deep breathing, drawing in the prana and focusing on the dark smoke while exhaling while sitting on a lotus in the middle of the blue sky.. 4 minutes. Short bout of Anapanasati, relaxing the body, letting go, deeply relaxing the face and watching the breath. Think the mantra "AUM". See the light inside the center of the head. Focus on the meaning of AUM (God's word), the sound of OM and the light. Lose it, so repeat. Persist at this for about 7 minutes until the mind calms down. The light becomes brighter. Sustain concentration on the meaning of AUM, clearer of obstacles, word of God, hear the AUM resonate, see the light. Turn up the concentration. Attempt to forge a steady stream. Maintain focus. The light becomes very bright, like an arc welder's torch. Tingles and waves start coming out of the heart going upwards. The light grows. Stream of bliss starts to occur. Body falls away. Mind falls away. Immense light and bliss, joy, peace... tibetan bell timer goes off.. rats! So you see, both techniques "work", it's just that they don't take you to the same place, do they? The goal of Patanjali's samyama is to develop concentration to the point where you can hold onto anything with a steady stream of awareness, whether that be an object, a sutra, empty space, or even the feeling of being. Without the ability to fix, hold on, sustain a steady stream of awareness, you just bob in and out. And from what I've read about TM meditators, they can bob in and out for decades without any self-realization or enlightenment. Isn't that the whole point of the exercise? Link, if you found something that was inaccurate, that was deceiving, that you were caught in for years, wouldn't you feel like you had an obligation to warn others about it? Isn't it your duty? If someone would have told me four years ago that the AYP meditation is actually a form of customized TM and not Patanjali's dharana/dhyana/samadhi, then I could have had the choice to follow or not. If someone would have told me that Yogani invented AYP, that he is trying to marry the TM and TM-siddhi program with Kriya Yoga wouldn't it be proper to tell people that instead of trying to claim that AYP is Patanjali's Eight Limbs of Yoga? Yogani says: link: http://www.aypsite.org/149.html If the eight limbs of yoga are so logical and easy to understand, how can Yogani have misinterpreted samyama, dharana and dhyana? And when I asked him about that, this was my response: Well, an understanding of the last three limbs of yoga has benefited me greatly. And it was obtained by comparing the AYP's interpretation to six other interpretations of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras (which all say basically the same classic thing). I am only interested in truth. Sometimes you have to dig deep and upset some people in order to find it. I don't have to discredit AYP. If one starts to closely examine it's teachings, customizations, practices, it discredits itself. But a novice would never discover that on their own. You have to dig deep and know your stuff... You asked... So, if you are unwilling or unable to tell us about the differences between the experiences of classic samyama and AYP's samyama, it makes me wonder what your purpose is here. What are you basing your claims on? What do you practice now? Are you perhaps someone from AYP trying to maintain the parrot and the brown-noser? TI

Hi Link Thanks for your response. Since you have used the term "buddhi", let's define the Antahkaran, of which the buddhi is a part. Then perhaps we will conclude that the buddhi is either active, or it rests, but if it is functioning, it is not resting. And if the buddhi has transformations, then it is not suspended nor can it be at rest. According to the text called Aptavani 01, by Dada Bhagwan, originally Compiled in Gujarati by Dr. Niruben Amin (link: Aptavani-01.pdf) the Antahkaran consists of four parts of which the buddhi is one: The main point is that here it is stated that the buddhi is separate from the Pure Soul. In the book called "The Yoga-Sutra Of Patanjali", by Manilal Nabhubhai Dvivedi, 1914, it says this: Then, on page 37 of that same book it says: So, according to the aforementioned quotes, the budhhi does not rest "in space, presence, being, oneness, awareness, consciousness.". Further, the statement " Mind is not active, but not dysfunctional." is exactly what AYP is trying to convince us of. It is a contradiction. An oxymoron. The purusha is the only part that is "Being" and it is separate from the Buddhi. The only way to the purusha is through the suppression of the transformations of the thinking principle, not the other way around. Doesn't this reveal the ambiguity of AYP's interpretation of samyama? Isn't bringing a sutra to consciousness and releasing it, as suggested in AYP, the causing of transformations of the mind? You said: Yes, I've had that happen many times. Also, after meditating at least twice a day for 4 1/2 years now, a thought that my meditation bell timer will go off usually spontaneously appears, and usually I know exactly how many seconds are left in the count-down. Sometimes I count along. Most of the time I'm about 10 or 15 seconds off.. Now, that mental action isn't from being, or presence, or the purusha; that is the sub-conscious which has been programmed. It is a part of the mind which hasn't yet been suppressed or stilled. To call it "releasing a sutra from inner silence" as AYP does, is misleading and contrary to the architecture of Patanjali's samyama. Again, I ask the question, how can you even act from 'inner silence' when the act itself is a modification of the mind, and if the mind is modifying, it is transforming. If it is transforming, it is not suppressed. If it is not suppressed, there is no pure 'being'. Further, I still do not understand the AYP term "inner silence" and how it is used in proper context. AYP calls samyama "stillness moving into action" and maintains that it is a mystery how it works. I disagree with that. One is correct and the other is at the opposite end of the dualistic pole. Patanjali's sutras and his eight limbs of yoga have a particular order, and one must follow the order in order to arrive at samadhi and use the tool properly. One cannot just jump into samadhi and then work backwards in reverse order. The purusha has no desires, no will, it is the eternal watcher. See what I mean? If you think both methods yielded similar results, then (no disrespect here), you probably think that that little bubble of silence and black space that you cultivated is significant. I say it is an imaginary construction of the mind fertilized by AYP's misconceptions and blurry word definitions. If you expand your awarness to the outside of the bubble, you will see that there are still thoughts, impressions, other planes, lights and motion on the outside. You can't get there by going outwards, you have to continually reverse your course and head back to the source, the purusha, the eternal light. Then you discover that all is contained within that spec of light. The term "relaxation response" is the term that is used to describe what TM really does. Many studies were made that determined that exactly the same benefifical effects and brain wave patterns that were produced from TM could be attained by just sitting and mentally repeating any nonsensical word over and over until eventually the mind is so bored that it shut itself off (or falls asleep) - the relaxation response. And Patanjali says something about that too (according to Dvivedi): But yes, there are things you could tell me to convince me that you have been successful at Patanjali's samyama. Perhaps stories of siddhis? Stories of bright golden light, immense bliss, and your mind working like greased lightning afterwards.. You know, I agree with you whole heartedly. Buddha practiced concentrative mind techniques for many years, and it wasn't until he realized that there was more to let go of, that he came accross enlightenment. Letting go is not a doing. Letting go is detachment, detachment from all things, thoughts, forms, words, peanut butter sandwiches, ego, ... TI

Hi Link Thanks for the response. You certainly do have the AYP lingo. If you have experience in inner silence, then perhaps you could answer this question: "When I perform the classic steps of Patanjali's dharana, dhyana and then enter samadhi, there is no mind left: the body/mind and universe have dissolved, my object of meditation has become very bright and colorful and there is immense bliss. There is no mind at that point. You cannot function willfully at that point. I do not see how anybody in that state could even remember a sutra and then release it into silence (as is the AYP method). Surely, at that point, the mind no longer functions. How then is the AYP version of 'samyama' even possible? What am I missing here?" Yes, definately, if one hangs onto will. Isn't that a rather crude understanding of classic samyama? The point is not to blast through using personal intent and will and maintain that throughout. The proper method of samayma is to train the awareness to remain on the object effortlessly. In the finer stages, one must learn to let go and relax effort/will as well as clear away the remaining thoughts/distractions (Bhuddists call these the five hinderances) so that the awareness rests on the object. The result is a constant stream of awareness on the object. How can you train awareness, detect dullness or fading, detect excitement or clinging to sensuous feelings (the 5 hinderances) if one is just constantly letting go? My main concern about DM, which is so similar to TM that you might as well say they are the same, is that it elicits the relaxation response. If the relaxation response and Patanjali's samyama take you to the same place on the mountain, what can you say to convince me? Patanjali's samyama produces superconsciousness, the relaxation response does not. Have you experienced superconcsiousness? Are you saying that both samadhis are identical? Can you describe them? Thanks. TI

Hi Dwai Thanks for the link and the interesting reading. However, it seems that that exploration of the meanings of dharana and dhyana in that discussion coincide with the classic interpretation of what Patanjali is saying. TI

Hi Apech I guess the point is "what is the authentic original Patanjali teaching?" I've also seen TM and the TM-Siddhi program refered to as Patanjali's Yoga and samyama (respectively). I see no resemblance there either. TI

Reasoning is harmful To fools; It ruins their good fortune And splits open their heads. The Dhammapada

Hi, I heard a radio interview the other day and the person was saying that you are not supposed to practice the Micro Cosmic Orbit for more than three months at a time. He said that it could be dangerous to do so. He said that practicing the MC orbit was a preliminary stage and that one should progress to other Taoist practices rather than remain with the MC orbit for extended amounts of time. Would anyone here know why practicing the MC Orbit for many months could be dangerous? Any insight on this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. TI

Hi lomistick thank you very much for your reply. Personally I still think it is kundalini. I would recommend checking out the AYP lessons (Advanced Yoga Practices) website and in particular the Spinal Breathing lesson. It will show you how to take the energy up the spinal nerve in a controlled fashion. Good Luck and thanks again TI

Hi Lomistick Sounds like kundalini to me accompanied by kriyas. If you don't mind me asking, what meditation technique were you performing? Can you describe it or do you have a link that describes the meditation? Thanks. TI

Hi Everyone There is a Kunlun seminar next weekend (March 21'st, Sunday) in Didsbury, Alberta Canada. (very close to where I live) According to the facilitator, you also receive the transmission and the Red Pheonix technique. Cost for the one day session is $200.00 Here is the link: http://www.primordialalchemist.com/international_classes.html Unfortunately, there are not enough people attending and the seminar could potentially be cancelled. There must be some Kunlun'ers in Alberta that would like to get the transmission and Red Phoenix technique.. ? TI

Hi, Douglas wrote to me last night to inform me that "The enrollment is to low to facilitate a class at this time." He did say, though, that he is interested in putting one on in the future in Red Deer, Alberta. TI

Hi Orochi I've never gone to a Kunlun seminar but I'd sure like to. I'd love to get the transmission and learn the Red Phoenix. Living in Canada means international travel to attend but in this case it's just 35 minutes away for me.. (if we get enough people).. TI

Hi Orochi Didsbury is about 35 minutes north of Calgary. Why not Calgary? I didn't organize this so I don't have any idea... Maybe the hall rental is cheaper in a small town? TI

Hi Mikaelz Thank you for writing about your experiences with Sifu Jenny Lamb! I've really enjoyed reading this and I am very happy that you had the opportunity to take her seminar. I have a few questions, if you'd be so kind. Is Jenny saying that Kunlun opens the wisdom eye and not the third eye? Did she say whether or not the third eye would eventually open too with Kunlun? Did she say what wisdom-eye-sight looks like, or is it more like 'knowing' without location? Does the wisdom eye have a location on the body? I'm very interested in the wisdom eye and any additional information that you might have to share will be greatly appreciated. TI

Hi Vortex In that video that you present, take a look at the mirror that sits on the stage. See the shining sunlight in it from the window in the back of the room? If you put a round mirror in that sunlight you could reflect the beam of light onto the stage from the back of the room. Further, follow the tragectories of the light beams in the corner. See how they follow one straight path until they hit the corner and then change path? An orb wouldn't change path exactly at the corner but a reflection from a light beam would. No, flash off droplets don't explain the curving trjectories here. It is very simple to make a reflected beam of light move in an arc. You just move your hand that is holding the mirror in an arc. And again, if it was a distinct orb, and it went behind objects, you would not see it. However, follow the path of every light beam in that video. They never move behind anything. For all we know, that white robe that he is wearing has tiny mirrors glued on the back and that is what the mirror on the stage is for: to reflect the light from the back window onto his back and make orbs. Again, I'm not denying the value of smiling (which is a very powerful practice), or shaking or laughing, nor do I wish to dismiss any truths that may be hiding in their teachings. However, I've spent a lot of time playing with crystals, rainbows and light and I can explain what has been presented by that site experientially. My brother and I built a laser a long time ago and beamed a red dot of light at the clouds and the church steepel. Some people figured it was a UFO.. TI

Hi Gee, I can make moving orbs like that using a round mirror and a flashlight.. Try this one http://abirc.com/images/orbs/1001.jpg or this one: http://abirc.com/images/orbs/IM001002.jpg Or this one by the same healing centre at a fire walk.. :0 TI

Hi, Just a word of warning. The pictures of orbs on that website are not what they are presented to be. I've seen many pictures like that and I've investigated the phenomenon. The pictures with many orbs are a result of taking a picture in a dark setting, with moisture droplets in the air. The flash from the camera illuminates the droplets of moisture. Try it for youself. Get a vaporiser/spray bottle. Go into the dark or at least make sure your camera is going to flash. Squirt the spray above the camera. Take the picture while the mist is falling. See? Presenting these orbs as evidence of mounting energies, in my mind, is fraudulent. This statement does not regard the remainder of the site or the practice of shaking, but it really makes me question the integrity of the site.. TI

Thanks for the info markern, yes, there are many flavours to buddhist teachings.. Yes, sometimes the nimittas last for days. That is, it is like someone turned on a tv inside your head/third eye/inner vision and forgot to shut if off. I remember that one nimitta lasted a few weeks but that was when I was practicing kunlun level 1. It wasn't a pure nimitta. There is/was a sun, a huge dark ocean and a stone buddha floating over the water. Sometimes the nimitta clouds over after a few hours. Lately I've added practicing 'sensing the inner body' via Eckhart Tolle and I"ve discovered that the more you let go, relax and sense the inner body, the more it causes lights to appear in the third eye. It also causes your perineum to pulse, sensitize and charge up (or something). During one sitting, I saw many multi-colored pastel lights in front of my brow (inner sight), and my perineum realeased waves of ecstatic conductivity up my body and out through the crown. .. Just by really relaxing and sensing the inner body and letting go! I also noticed a few times in my life, that sometimes, if I am overtired, just before falling asleep, I will see a brilliant white light. When that happens, I am always confused, sort of like thinking that someone turned on the light in the bedroom. I think what is happening is you get into that same level of letting go (when you are overtired), and the light (which is a nimitta) appears.. In any case, I think the light is a good sign that you are getting deeper and deeper into stillness.. TI

For a great book on Jhanas try "Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond: A Meditator's Handbook By Ajahn Brahm, Jack Kornfield". I've gotten many nimittas (which are mind objects that appear once you are resting in the natural state), which is the first step. I've seen a sun, a moon, the earth, several colored disks and most of these nimittas persist right through daily life, some ever for a few days. Had I known at the time that you focus your attention on them completely until you either merge with them or they explode, I might have reached the jhanas sooner. I'm no expert on it and I can't duplicate the process at will, but, it seems that exercise early in the day (long hikes) coupled with deep relaxation and effortless one-pointed meditation produce pretty stable nimittas for me. Sometimes I merge with them but I get too excited and awed; I blow it. Funny, seems that merging with them even for a short time seems to cure minor ailments. Lately I've been practicing refining the mantra (because I've watched some Youtubes about David Lynch) and I've taken the mantra to finer and more intuitive levels, and drilling down to a fine point. Like an infintesimally small blip in consciousness. For the past two days meditations, a white star-like sun has appeared, with long beams of light. Not round like a sun but more like a star. Not sure what it is but it seems to be the origin of the mantra on a very fine intuitive level. I haven't succeeded in merging into it yet.. I'm just enjoying watching it and contemplating what it might be.. TI

Hi Santiago, A few questions concerning "The Kundalini Awakening Breathing Instructions": 1) What is the fudosai posture? Do you have a picture? (Google has nothing on it) 2) For the hand mudra, are the fingers interlaced (like looking at 10 fingers in a row, the tips of each finger in the cracks between the fingers of the other hand) or are the fingers of each pressed together and each hand is just resting on top of each other? If they are interlaced, which index finger is on top, the right hand's index finger or the left? 3) Does the tip of the tongue go where the gum begins (so the tip of the tongue is touching the teeth and the gums), or does it rest further up in the front corner of the palate where the roots of the front teeth meet the palate. (When I put my tongue there my whole nose becomes numb). Thanks. TI

Hi I read on another site that the Red Phoenix is not the new Kunlun book (I've ordered three copies and I'm waiting for their delivery). Is this true? How can I learn about what the Red Phoenix is? Any suggestions? Thanks. TI