settler

To keep up with the discussion read the topics: "Building concentration with Mantra", "Yin training vs Yang training" and "A full training program". I started to get interested in Baguazhang when I as reading about Li Ching Yuen, which lived for about 197 years. Three documents confirm hes age so that got me interested in Baguazhang. The style he transmitted was "9 Dragon Baguazhang", but when i start learning, it was a very strong combat style and not balanced to develop Qi like Tai Chi. So i went to learn Jason Tsou Bagua Qigong. Which is a style of Bagua oriented in to Qi developing, but the style was keep hidden for long time and is very poorly develop. I search and try to learn a couple more styles of Baguazhang, other 3 or 4 styles until I found Liu Jingru Cheng style, looked weird and not that easy to master. Like the Wild Goose, looks very odd but highly effective. Liu Jingru was awarded 2 times gold medal in Wushu competitions, a great achievement. This Cheng style is new, very well perfected and improved, with a good balance between Qi and martial art. The DVD is very well explained, in 1 hour Liu goes step by step explained very well all the small details. This is a very important aspect because if you are like me, an there is no master around to teach Baguazhang, you need a high detailed DVD in order to practice well. This is a complex style, a little mistake and your knees pay the bill. He is as good in martial arts as in teaching. A very good investment if you thinking on buying a DVD. Plus this style is used in the movie IP man 2, at the fight of the round table. If you are an advanced practitioner this is a very good complement, if you starting out, Tai Chi or Wild Goose is advised. But if you what to go straight to the gold, go ahead that's probably what you are looking for. From my experience this looks the best option. I read in the forums some criticize about Dr. Yang Baguazhang. A Buddhist oriented style not straight from Beijing Grand Master's circle, which was a high level of Chi realization. It might be a matter of opinion or not, this opinions some times have a solid background behind. Not all stuff is just an opinion as some one stated before. Fell free to post comments, opinions or questions as long you act civilized.

Wild Goose Qigong could be just one more style out there, between hundreds of styles. But it ins't. There are only a few known styles that can train a person to heal others. Among them there is Reiki, which is hilarious how people appropriates other styles and categories and believe they invented it. Reiki as only 80 years old and is master stole the concept from Qigong. None the less we must give credit to Reiki because they are improving the healing part of Qigong. Which is not that well develop by the martial arts which care only on power and self health. Raiki should be appropriated called Reiki Qigong, because is a style of something that already existed. Like "Baguazhang Liu Jingru cheng style", He didn't created something new, Bagua and Cheng already existed before him, he only give its flavor. Wild goose trains you to project Qi width your hands, in order for you to heal others. which is demonstrated by master Jo on Youtube. I also have achieve this width Wild Goose training. The training opens your hand Chankras, like reiki does, when you open them, you can heat stuff or boiled water. When applied to animals puts them to sleep. In Chakras regulates them, which can be unbalanced, if on part of the body is releasing to much sick Qi. Master Jo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnLV3YPUTS4 Wild Goose train was secret, it was only released to public in 1980 by Yang Mei-Jung. She almost die buried alive by the Japanese army and she thought, well I'm the only linage holder of this form, if i die all this knowledge goes with me. So she neglected her master who was also her father, and teach the form to open public. She was a renewed healer up to recent times. Giving forms away and not explaining is not that good. Lets say you open your hands chackras and can now project energy like master Jo. How do you regains this energy? Is wasteful energy or most be used with caution? She didn't give any clues on how this stuff works. She publish the form Wild Goose I in Qimagine in 92, it explain very well on how to perform it, but not at any point she explains. Like having a firearm in stone age. Its great, but you don't know how it relay works, and what cautions you should have. Qimagazine its now free to donwload: http://www.qimagazine.com/qimagazine00.html Her son, called Chen, performs WG at youtube: . If you read the instructions. watch him perform and repeat the video hundreds of times, you can master it like i did. Or you can find a master. Its not that hard to reach it, i did in 3 years, after this period i could no longer do Yin training. Because i was losing so much energy in just one run of Wild Goose that i have stop training. Now i just practice physical training like: Bagua, Tai Chi or Xing Yi Quan. Wild Goose get you straight to felling Qi. The filling is also associated with manipulation. Once you start filling up to high levels you can send it more easily to any part of the body. You can't manipulate something that you don't fill. Sure, in the books they say, send energy to this place or that, or control your sexual energy. If you focus, I'm sure some energy will be send. But once you start filling, you can send great amounts of Qi, and even observe the phenomena more easily inside the body. You can manipulated it, because you develop that felling which allows you to. Some one asked "I don't understand Qi manipulation", hope that explains it. Wild Goose form I serves to opens the hand Chankras. Wild Goose form II is to learn how to fell Qi, in a very natural way that no one can understand it unless by practicing. Not sure what Wild Goose III is for. It makes you pad the body, supposedly makes Qi runs better, and do a tiny Bagua. It doesn't focus on any thing like I or II. Way so little of this or that training, Not full Bagua, not full padding, not full any other kind of stuff. The real why is beyond me. Its needed for sure, Wild Goose is such an advanced system, if is there, most be some reason. I advice to start your training with Wild Goose. Is such a development, that you can improve all other trainings: Bagua, Tai Chi, Xing yi Quand, meditation, you name it. For me WG is the base that you should have. Not only, is me getting to this conclusion, as before, disciples start with hard external style and then soft internal style. Today they start with soft because it get more results. Following this line of thought, you should pick the softest form available to start. Which in my opinion is WG. Wild Goose is composed of 9 forms, but no credential teacher teach it to the west. You can only find instruction up to III. Dr Binku Hu, teach it to the West, but i don't call him a qualified instructor. I'm in believe Yang mei-Jung intentionally mislead him. My knowledge goes only to 3º form and i leave the rest up to the forum readers to explain more about Wild Goose training. Yang mei Jun perfoming soft palms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZEw6eOPBk4 * Extra information's is explained in this past topics: Building concentration with Mantra, Yin training vs Yang training, A full training program, Baguazhang Cheng style Liu Jingru, Ba Duan Jin The Source.

Mantak Chia says that the 8 healing sounds are originally designed to root the practitioner. Opposed to this theory the martial arts develop the push competition so that its students learn how to root, there for improving there training. I did train with the 8 healing sounds with not that much result, so i moved to didgeridoo listening and now start to learn to play it, with a much higher success rate. If you don't know what is rooting, rooting is an established connection with your self which improves the effects of your Qigong or yoga practice. With out this you can't reach that high levels that probably you are aiming. Let me know what do you think about this.

A very interesting analyses on our society, political, economic , genetics model of life.

Ya, but Zeitgeist speak of religious beliefs, this discussion is rooted in Zeitgeist point of view. Loving your self is a form of applying love, when you care about beautiful and ugly you avoid using your love. Its the mind attempting to change instead of attempting to love. You can love your partner flaws or you can attempt to change them. Mantak Chia was more spiritual energetic point of view: "avoid projecting energy in to others to compact it". One time i meet a person who said was enlightened. He use hes own teaching: "Integrate your self, all the mind pieces back in to unity". Integrate, love or no project same thing in different points of views. I'm more in to love my self, it's how i understand. When you think for your self, you will be much closer to it. You are much more connected to your self that if you copy others.

Vmarco are you still hurry about the others or you hurry about your self? When i write that i was to entangle in life affairs i mean that i start to hurry about my social image to much. Its not what you write Vmarco is how you write it. Just because, how you written Vmarco, i know you have to much sexual energy circulating. You can fix that by hurry more about your self. Care less about studying, you study that much to put it in others face. This is just an example nothing to do with you. Like many people who meditate; They do it to show a state to others, they don't do it for them self's, in the deep, they don't want peace they don't want enlightenment they just want something to put in others face. Enlightenment means peace, show peace to your self, enjoy peace, be in peace. If any one or any thing don't give you peace not go near them unless you have the strength to show them peace. Enlightenment is the same was belief or believing. A search for a state or thing to put it in others face. Its an emotional state. The truth or love is opposite to enlightenment, do not attach to enlightenment and you will save your soul. If you read Da Mo teaching, he speaks more on salvation of the soul then any thing else. This concepts can easy miss lead you to serve others needs. Lets say you go to a congregation of zen monks, they tell you: our path is enlightenment, Buda enlightenment him self, its available to all, any one can became a Buda. Come and meditate with us. How miss leading this can be? Did they give you any thing? Did they have any to offer? They offer their own goals to you, a true master will tell you search your own peace. Search how to love our self. enlightenment is just another form of belief, so the religious authority can profit with you. In this topic: "PLEASE READ THIS! HOW DO YOU CHANGE SOMEONE!?!?!?! There must be a way?"; AЯAB says: "Honestly F*** every thing I've ever said on tao bums I don't give a rats ass about enlightenment or any of that, I want my family back to normal"; This is closer to self love and peace that you can ever get. Vmarco its your choice to undertake the eternal search to find something to put on others face or choose to love your self.

When i was around 10 years i decided to abandon all that i have. (Buda self abandon) God descend upon me and said: "how our you"? (Christianity God) i replay: "i prefer the place i come from". He then show me the other plane: We have all possible things in one state, no movement, no food, no sleep, only love, only happiness all in one state. We already have all things. God asked : "is this you want?" I replay: "I'm to young i want to see what life is". (he went away...) You need to be very well prepared in order to accept that. If you not know what love is or not abandon all that you have, how are you going to accept such thing? To receive all for nothing you will surely think its madness. Now for what i have understand we reincarnate from a plane of fullness in to a plane of emptiness. Having all to having nothing in order to give value to the fullness state. In the bible God say this in symbol form: "Angels can not evolve there for can not learn". Irony also? We are the angels. Do not ask me where Jesus is because i do not know, nor ask me about Buda enlightenment i also do not know. As i stated before, it is a mix of Jesus love with Buda abandon off all things. Only by abandon all you have can you receive all back. Its not at a material level but at an emotional one which can be the same. First you let go in the mind and then in the physical world. "Jesus to Peter: there will be a time when you will be prevented to use your own will". Jesus consider this as spiritual practice, allow your self, by your free will to be chained in prison. If you want experience the indescribable fullness, love your self up to a point to abandon all that you have so you can enlighten your self, but it will be by God hand.

I manage to enter in to bliss a long time ago, before i got my self entangled in life affairs. It is a mix between Jesus Christ Salvation and Buda enlightenment. How can you say such thing if you never experienced it for your self? Worse, people are always quoting Buda or Christ or someone else can't you think for your self? Since the moment i start posting my own thoughts i got nothing but inflammes, worse then not thinking is judging others for thinking. In deep, what most peole say is others thoughts are not in the book there for can not be truth. If you mix Buda self center with Christ love you will find it. Quoting this or that leads you to another people quote. Sure if you want to entertain you self. Ok. Look at people on Zeitgeist they say that for thinking they got death threats, guess thinking for your self can be a dangerous affair. You will have more spiritual realization thinking for your self then spending your hole life read about Christ or Buda. Sure its important to have more knowledge but don't let your self be manipulated by it.

Marblehead was long you understand it for your self that's the important thing

"we need to draw our attention to what is true in us, for unless we learn to recognize the true as the true, there can be a lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into god, for that is how the true perpetuates itself" love is the truth love your self and you will find god do you love others? then you do not love your self

Think this is their slogan: Manage resources up to the most possible way to remove our need to buy a car a house or to have a full time job in order to free us from the slavery of the civilization.

I agree. Not that convinced in how they will apply such broad concept, if they start to be cooperative in small areas first, i think they could be more successful. while we watch so many people doing nothing... witness some debate and afford to improve our society its a start.

great video

Dainin That is a good contribution and a great piece of information. I didn't realize that Wild Goose was becoming so popular in China. I'm always looking for more information on this subject. I don't post stuff that i have not experience. People often replay "yo settler i read this in the book, you are wrong". What did you experience for your self? The books are full of theories, unless you experience for your self they are meaningless. Read a piece of information and argue about it is meaningless.

You suggesting we all stay here and do nothing? Go do something useful of your life. I'm here to contribute with a better training program to the world. You are here only to complain. Go work and leave my topic alone. When we have a big mouth and work little it will be very hard to develop the true Chi.

Who said "Seth" (or whatever is real name is) was a whore? I said that by calling him self Seth he also named him self eternal whore, that is the description in the bible. "The eternal whore". Which is also another name for Satan. Seth is Satan. Do you understand the connection? Point 1: I did not discriminate any one i pointed out that I'm in favor of heterosexuals. Hes preferences are none of my business. Point 2: You can only enter my house if you are heterosexual. this is discriminating him. Point 3: I speak that i like heterosexuals and he answer i don't like that. By that logic he is discriminating me. Do i have or not have the right to like whatever i want? I assume my guilty by calling him from the devil. But if we called me from God or from Jesus i hold not be offended. I hold thank him. He assumed him self as Seth/Satan he should accept that compliment. But, if he is your friend and you want to protect him, yes i accept your warning and resume my self to my insignificance. But if not. Validate my claim and removed my warning. I have not offended any one.

Seth Ananda Dude if you don't want to read. Don't come here. Obvious you are not a person of trust. You are a disbeliever in the practice, in your self and in others. You just create disbelieve and recklessness. You created more nonsense in one post that i have created in all my 30 poorly English posts. If you are suppose to believe me, no you are suppose to believe in Jesus Christ. "I am the sun of God he gave me power to give all flesh eternal life" - Jesus Christ Or do you believe your are above Christ? You are from the devil. A person that entitle him self as the Seth. God of the Abyss and destruction eater of human flesh. The eternal whore. That is from the Devil in poor plain sight. Don't come here your presence is annoying and disturbing. You aura is dark. You are probably in some deep dark stuff that i advice any person of good to be far away. And that kundalini that you do i also practice that, that is pure devil. Mixing of female and male energy that will make you like this guy in the foto which is Satan a person who do not know who if he is a female or a male. Transcendental energy is not like that at all, it doesn't create confusion in only gives bliss it dosen't change you in to an homosexual, like many satanists are. Because they mixed those energy they don't know you they really are. Dude let me give you a personal advice leave that stuff. Jesus loves you in any way you are, you don't need that stuff just to be some one.

Seth the Heart Sutra topic again? let me enlighten you. First of all, i trained with a real Zen master which is direct descend of the Buda Zen linage, which he learn from Taisen Deshimaru linage of the Soto school for about 30 years. Let me inform you more. If Deshimaru was in the old times, he had receive the Buda bowl. Why didn't he receive the Buda bowl? You don't know? No Zen master teach this to you? Not all come from the books. In Lisbon Portugal capital I meet and talked width the Zen president for Europe in person. I was introduced not as one more disciple but as The disciple. I will not post the name of my master, because he have the right to hes private life. Seth i didn't want to tell you this before, but you are judging a true zen master teaching. You call them fools? They will laugh at your knowledge and your training. I quote them "The true Dharma can only be tasted". Go there and try to be a smart ass on them. You will be beat up in the head so much you will think "this is madness". Second my knowledge extends to Reiki, Spring Qigong and Chi-lel. I practiced with several masters of Reiki, but never at a deep level. I'm perfectly aware that Reiki practitioners don't have any internal training. It depends on concentration, when this fail's the patient gets nothing. Mainly because the method is poorly develop. Its well-known that the Japanese don't like Chinese that much, in fact in recent times they were at war. Why should a Japanese women that develop her system base on the Chinese Qigong give any credit to the Chinese that they don't like? Are you trying to say that in 80 years she out-experienced 4k years in Qigong training? I'm the one who tell you "this is madness". If you what to start quoting cultures you get to Africans practices, which extend so deep that 3 life times will not be enough to try them all. It extends to: voodoo, witchcraft, shamanic, meditation dances, trance rituals and so on. Don't stop there keep going up to: Indians, Australian, Brazilian, etc. The list is endless. Are they compiled in DVD's so we can tell what is better? No they aren't. So don't quote stuff that you don't know. You don't know because they don't teach it in DVD's or book's or in person and especially to westerners. There is nothing wrong in learning from Books or DVDs. The masters from times to times give seminars which you can attend and if you failed to understand something, you can go there and ask him in person. I read it, in this same forum at the Phoenix system topic. The guy failed to understand the DVD instructions and he went to the master who gave I'm that extra detail he missed. Chi-lel has the biggest Qigong clinic in the world, but their style is not even close to Kunlun Qigong. Dr. Yang a Qigong researcher says all styles came from Kunlun. In fact Kunlun mountains are near Himalayan which is a well-known spiritual center. You can understand the connection. Spring is something new, it still needs a lot of method compilation. Like a raw diamond they need to perfected it. All styles have something good in them, as long you keep on adding more knowledge. But if must choose. Better choose the most effective. For some reason we Constantly evolve and adapt, the trainings must do the same, to keep up with us. With your reckless words you are wasting people time to choose a good program to train.

Mjjbecker Thanks for the comments. You have proven to be a highly spiritually develop person. People stay calm, i re-wright that post more then 20 times. It toke me more then 3 hours to right OP. Google translator is not perfect. Post your observations and i will update the original post when enough material is gathered. If you don't have time to correct a full post, correct only a little leave something for others to correct also. We live in the Present, there is no need to look at the Past. If something is wrong we can go there and correct it. As long as we are living we can still go back and correct things out.

Some also suggested that 18 lohan hands are very good complement do the 8 Ba Duan Jin. Any one can give a second opinion on this? It looks like one can do much better with pure Xing Yi quan. But i didn't try it don't know.

xingyi neigong do you have a link for DVD? Can you describe what it is. If a style doesn't reveal effective in the first weaks you don't need years to just verify that. How many hours per day do you train? Steve - The good base theory has its value. How do you know what you are doing? If consider the point of view of evolution why don't you go make Pilates, its the most modern style of exercise.

I must disagree with you. Xing Yi Quan which is just linear forms, have pretty high practitioners. The principle is repetition. Repeat only a few exercises until you find the Qi. Keep repeating for 500 times if you have to. A very methodical approach which works great. If you practicing Bagua poorly. Xing Yi Quan will kick your ass. Not at physical but in Qi level. Although Bagua have the potential to move more Qi, it doesn't mean you are moving more Qi. It means you have a greater potential to do so. I speak of my practice. I decided to learn that Youtube 64 hands linear Bagua which is pretty close to Xing Yi Quan, and I'm getting great results in repeating that short form 3 times a day. But that doesn't mean i don't like Baguazhang nor i don't practice it. Xing Yi Quan kind got me there, they manage to learn Qi in a very simple approach, with higher results. Go check Youtube mid level practitioners on Xing Yi Quan and then check Baguazhang mid's, after that come here and tell me who have a greater level. You will agree that Xing Yi Quan students have a superior power level. In Dr. Yang books about base theory, he speaks of different potential. The more Qi you move, more different potential is created. Which means, if you move great amount of Qi to a part of the body, it flows back and clears Qi blockage and strengthen the body. Xing Yi Quan practitioners believe in straight power and they are also right in that approach. Bagua rotated to create power, but it requires a lot of footwork, it many not be that easy to achieve. If you prefer the hammer approach and not the torch it will be also ok. You get the hammer and nail, hit the nail and that's it, simple and easy. If you want to be more fancy, get some gas to the torch, tune the torch and then maybe you get more power then the hammer. You know what i mean. If you read all my topics was suggested, you will see that I advise people to start with what works better. Wild Goose is great to develop the filing of Qi. From there, climb your way in the forms. Or not. Xing Yi Quan states "stay with the simplest". You may have to choose for your self. If you don't have time to "climb", is not good to be wondering around, from form to form and from style to style. Because its about exploring, if you don't have time to do that better stay with the simplest. This bring us to the reason behind the creation of the topic "yin training vs yang training". Wild Goose is not like Bagua, Tai Chi, or Xing Yi Quan. It doesn't create a different potential, it manipulates Qi. When you reach a high level of Qi manipulation, i consider a draining activity. Especially to do that on a daily basis. That's why i adverted to the dangers behind the Yin training, but i could was easy make a topic called "Different potential vs Manipulation of Qi". More accurate, but that doesn't mean the contend inside the topic "yin training vs yang training" is not accurate. It means you need some good bases to understand the topic. To resume this subject, Wild Goose is great to make you understand and experience the Qi, which could allow the training of different potential to be more successful. the wild goose form opens the gates or Chakras it can really open the body to absorb more Qi, and that's the reason why i call it yin training, its oriented to absorb energy. And not to generate Qi as the Different Potential training. I saw a video o yang-meijung practicing with soft hands, maybe that's what you are suppose to practice, after reaching that level of Qi manipulating. That's why Wild Goose have around 11 forms. That includes Bagua also. With so many years of great practice they put together a good system. But the system of training still need better explanations. Making a DVD saying, do this and you may get to that point, is just pointless. And that Dr. Binku Hu is the worst, i quote him "why learn a complex system of rules when you can just practice a freely set of movements". Wild Goose has nothing of freely movements. In order to manipulate the Qi you need to be very accurate on the movements and not only that, there's also a time to practice width which form. Now i'm aware that after 6 mounts of daily practice with a form you are suppose to move in to the next one. Qigong masters obscure the training, if they didn't maybe we all have a superior set to train. When i say this i also include Yang mei-jung Wild Goose grand master up to recent years. Look at Dr. Binku Hu. Who teach him so little about the internal Qi work? Obviously was Yang mei-jung, this means she intentionally didn't teach him all that she knew. To him and many others who went there to receive the true teaching and got only half of it. That "Magus of Java" or John Chang is another alike, they reach a high level and teach it only to a few selected. For what purpose? Who knows, but misleading people is wrong. Its immoral. If that guy who published that book on him, used hes time to read Dr. Yang base theory and practice, by now, when he saw people moving big amounts of Qi, instead of being there with is mouth open he hold say, big deal i can do that. Qi is not only important to public display but for health reasons, look at that Chang guy he can really cure people illness. People disagree with public displays, but is a motivation to get more people to practice. No one want to practice something that is useless.

Anamatva I read the book but don't remember it that way. This books have a lot of knowledge and we need to re-read it 2 and 3 times just to get all the details. 50 minutes of training and you just say: "Do this and exhale". Kind of hilarious. We don't live in the monastery, this is not the army, if you want to make a DVD which teaches a very complex form of Qi developing you should at lest explain the complexity of the training. He are not dummys at the shaolin monastery that follow blindly the master. Much Qi training, but no heart training, it makes you look a bit retarded. Compassion is a superior form of intelligence. I regard the Christ as as highly intellectual person, a person who care only with the important things in life.

This guy is made of pure steel and I'm not joking, he hits is body with steel sticks. That is only for, a selected few. When i saw those movements i was a beginner, and i thought pointless stuff, that were my analysis from the results back at that time. Now that I'm more advanced maybe i will check them again. Just to double check. If a person is writing some opinions, the lest he should do is having a solid background on what is talking about. The DVD should have more instructions, not only he lack on giving a background nor he pointed to the right direction. Kind of pointless stuff for a beginner.