flowing hands

Here is a picture of inside the Temple of one of My Hon. Teachers Temples that exist in Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong. Huang Lo is on the left, Chi Tien Da Shun in the middle and Tai Sung Lo Jun on the right.

No its not Zheng Yi, its origin comes from Mao Shan range of mountains. Its difficult to pin many things down because many traditions borrowed techniques from other schools, its a right mish mash!

Ah yes quite a new temple that reflects the wealthy Singaporean people there, unlike the temple in Melaka, which is not an ostentatious building. The temple committee have taken on a little of their own version. The Monkey God may be a Buddhist now but was a Daoist for most part and learnt Daoist arts. I see now they are calling him a different name to reflect Buddhism. Huang Lo is principally a Daoist and I think they have associated him with Confucius because he is highly principled. But I don't think he would like to be called Confucianist. The cheeky devils have copied some of my words and background information. I noted that the talisman drawing, they have now broken down to three types, whereas when I was in Malaysia they only had one and it was the Immortal master that did it! Interesting though how all these things develop and seems to me not in the right way. Daoist temples should not be ostentatious or flashy and it reminds me a bit of the new temples that have gone up in Indonesia and in China.

Tai Sung Lo Jun is a common name that the Chinese gave to Lao Shi, but his given name when he was born was Li Erh. Because he never comes to anyone so he has never expressed this. One doesn't call in ones mind. No it is quite possible, but we require more words and actions.

Hi Jeff Lao Shi (Li Erh Xian Shi, Tai Sung Lo Jun). As a besides point I used to call Li Erh, Tai sung, it is in our prayer, then one day he came to me and said I want you to call me by my proper name that is Li Erh. I never heard this name before so I had to look it up. So his proper name is Li Erh Xian Shi (Long Lobed Immortal Master). He comes to me as a spirit Immortal because that's where he is. He can come as a human or anything else and I have experienced this also. When life was more simple and people lived very much with the environment, there was a peace that we seldom experience nowadays. So Li Erh is talking about the teaching of someone by using no words but by making them be aware totally of their environment. Like the north American native Indians the Holyman would go on a vision journey, alone and in the wilderness. He would be faced only with the environment and himself. There would be no cars no planes, no distractions and so they would begin to feel the energy of the world and the environment. They would find peace and stillness and they could watch the world turn in the infinite. Learning about the Dao would start as a love of all things, it would then be inside of them, once they had achieved oneness with the infinite. This peace and understanding can be seen by others and so no words are needed to teach this. This the spirit of the Dao. One can be shown this and led towards this, but actions and words may be needed.

To continue the debate about XYP as they refuse to accept any criticism. I do believe there are a number of XYP members on this board. They claim that their teacher is Tai Sung Lo Jun (Lao Shi). Now Lao Shi is well known for.....................yes his DDJ. He is not known for martial art, Qi gong etc etc. So one would expect that if one is taught by Lao Shi what would the principle thing he would Teach? Now the XYP members do not post in the DDJ section, it is a rare occurrence if any. Now one would expect that being taught by Lao Shi they would be all over those 81 chapters with inspirational opinions and understandings, alas this has never happened. Why not?

Hi Dawei Of course ...but to get to that state you have the self in the way, we have talked about this before. How to have self realisation and of course then to be what you have quoted from my text. Can you be all those things and not be yourself? Of course Li Erh is talking about the highest state of a man or a woman or of the Heavens. How does one get to the stage of ch 21? Xyp think they have the answer and so does hundreds of others. So we come back to a path...what path should I take. Of course I would say it certainly is not a straight one and sure enough restrictions are going to limit experience. But within an unknown path there is one (a path) and the energy that you put forward is the path that you will take and receive. Starting on the right path is a big advantage. How do we know which is the right path? soul work of previous lives(energy) brings us to certain points and we are therefore destined to a certain path at a certain part of the continuation of life. we have choices in our lives to do and not do certain things. Li Erh says in ch 84 "Following the way is a sacred path. It has been sacred since the very beginning and shall be till the very end. Following the way requires strength Not just physical, but mental and spiritual too. The sacred path is called Daoist Heart Many start on the path with wrong beginnings, Many start on the path for the wrong reasons, Many start on the path for fame and fortune. But only very few make themselves like trees; Stretching forth to Heaven with an open mind and an open heart. The way becomes clearer to such men. ( and women) That which goes against the Dao will never last. Ch 89 "I once trod upon a path; thorn bushes grew at every turn.............

Hi walker thank you for your post I don't drink and I don't lament so I won't be seeing you in the pub. As you say we must be diligent about these things. Actually as we are being diligent on this site I rarely say anything about the end world prophecy, I usually stick to the DDJ, because as you say there are so many (not that I am aware of them) lamenters of Millenarianism (had to google that one you must be a walking dictionary!) As we were both not in China at the time (I presume you were not) it is very difficult given the amount of news that was released from the government to say what was accurate. Bill Porter was 'escorted' around a lot of China and only shook free at certain points. To discuss what actually happened we could be here all year, but we do know that spiritual and martial arts were severely suppressed and banned. Fa long Gong was banned for one example which is more modern. I might have misread Xia Yao Pai site as it was not coming up full screen, but what I could gleen was that it was after the CR that the teacher decided to teach, but it did not verify whether he came from China or was in Indonesia before this. So I could be wrong about this. I am sure Effilang could put me right. Perhaps they could get their site so it can be read properly. As we are diligent my old chum, my arts are from Malaysia where I lived for a while. I also lived in South Korea for a while. So Dudes who heavily rely on dictionaries need to be more diligent themselves. The answers are not always there.

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The hotel Dao bums

nop I can't sign out on either exp or google..... Someone needs to sort it!!!

Hi Effilang Let me try and be really constructive about your video and helpful again to show you what you are doing. A nice video, lovely music, your body movements are from contemporary dance and you have the 'attitude' of your hands of that performance art, combined with a lot of the movements known to the Shaolin school. Remember Tai Sung Lo Jun is of the Daoist school so he will use Daoist hand forms and certainly not the ones you are using in the video. If you were my student I could make you into a good martial artist, you have good body control, although you sit to one side because your legs are not in a full lotus. But this is certainly not Shen Gong in any form one could imagine, it is more linked to Qigong if I was pushed to describe its actual effect it was having. The focus in what you are doing is completely wrong. To be honest having learnt 13 different styles of Wu shu and many qi gong forms I could very easily make up all sorts of movements either sitting or standing that would suit a qi gong purpose and effect and no one would be the wiser that I had made them up. Remember the hand forms you are using are from Shaolin, all my arts apart from one come from Daoists. The one art that I learnt from the Shaolin school did not have this hand form that is so depicted in the Kung Fu movies that one can watch and you have used in your video. I was taught Shen Gong by Chi Tien Da Shen 30 years ago and have practiced through the various stages of this form of cultivation. The very beginners level starts at meditation style level and is the complete opposite to what you are doing. It moves on and then goes to standing postures only with lots of variations according to the bodies ability to absorb energy. A long and lengthy process, which involves changing the cellular structure of the entire body. This has to be done under strict supervision. I don't want to reveal any more about real Shen Gong, but it is the complete opposite to what you are doing. You may of course draw your own conclusions from this, but I am genuinely trying to help you and I am concerned. No Immortal would teach you this and pass it off as Shen Gong, because it is not. Li Erh would not use the hand forms that you are using they are the wrong school and are pointless in Shen gong, but are frequently seen in the Shaolin school of martial art in the movies. I am sorry Effilang but I think you are being deceived.

Qi does not refine to shen they are totally different. Jing is what all living things are born with, it is like our DNA, what is given to us from our ancestors from the very beginning of life. Jing does not replenish itself very easily, but one can help it to strengthen by keeping one's vital fluids in. Qi alters all the time and it pulses at various levels depending on external influences, pathogenics, diet, and exercise etc. All these things can be cultivated as a whole or individually, but will not lead to Immortality.

Have made some recent posts and am experiencing that I am logged in all the time, Tried clearing the cache and history but ended up loosing shortcuts to other sites. Doesn't happen in Chrome but only in Explorer.

It is slanderous that you are using my master's name when he has not given you permission to do so. I haven't got a bubble and we all have a right to speak our truth just as you have without personal insult, which is where you have gone astray and shown how lacking you are in your awareness and development and all you can see is your sect and nothing else, which ties in quite nicely with hypnotic suggestion and obsession. The obsessive behaviour to sell your system, constantly giving testimonials, trying to attract more followers etc. Very cultish. The way is very much lost. I have had hundreds of students of Martial art and Qi gong, not one for the spiritual arts. Why? Because I don't preach religion, but would prefer to teach people as does Tai Sung Lo Jun, to Follow the Dao and give up religion. So according to you Tai Sung Lo Jun is going against his whole teaching? Do you seriously think this is true? I am showing up inconsistencies in the things that you are doing and saying, if we are not allowed to do that then it becomes a cult and a dictatorship. Remember I am part of a sect myself, there are many of us spread across the world. Many practice at home and there rarely is a Temple established in the west because of the cost. I met many years ago a Chinese Kung Fu Master who was very famous in Europe. We got talking and he asked me where I learnt my Kung Fu, so I was honest and told him that I learnt it from the Immortals. He then asked me what sect I was and we were the same sect. He told me that he could draw the amulet but could not learn martial art and he said to me it was very good indeed that I could do this. So there are a lot of us around not just in Asia. There are a lot of just followers who just believe in the Immortal Masters. Now I lived in Asia as well as in the west with a Traditional Holyman. I visited many Temples and talked to many Holymen/women of differing sects. What I have said is held by such people NOT JUST MY OPINION. The basic rule I have laid out is the rule taught to me by the Immortals. It is a rule so that people can never get confused in their minds and be misled, because the Immortals know how difficult it can be and how easily the mind can be deceived and deceive. Here is the hard truth Effilang, if you haven't experienced what I have said, you are not being taught properly. This is my opinion and I am entitled to it. Insult me all you like, you will get nowhere other than to show yourself up to what you have learnt and how far you have come in your personal development, which judging by your misguided insults, shows me that it is your own mind that is teaching you and not an Immortal spirit, otherwise you would be far more open and tolerant to others who are experienced in such matters and are seriously questioning things that don't add up. Enough from me, I done what my Master asked me to do.

I do see that to be initiated it costs £200. When I went to the Temple in Malaysia where the Immortal Master came to me physically it cost nothing. I see the basis of the teaching is through mental contact with the spirit. I see there is no protection given to the student. I begged Tai Sung Lo Jun about this and he said he had nothing to do with this sect. He would only rarely teach once in a thousand years and only if the student had first proved themselves and he would come to the student physically only, until the student had served their apprenticeship and mental communication is then established. The student would have to be baptized properly taken over the bridge of life and their name recorded in the book of Heaven. In that way the power the student is given and the blessing upon their body would serve as a protection while they learnt their art. Remember Immortals have spent many life times trying to go beyond the material world. Once they have achieved this, they really have very little interest in the world, so to get one to teach you is a formidable task. Getting Lao Tzu to teach is virtually impossible. Darren Brown has done some remarkable things to do with the power of the mind, I would strongly suggest that behind all this is hypnotic suggestion which leads people into believing things that aren't actually real. But it can work seemingly miracles as Darren Brown has amply demonstrated. It can change peoples lives it can do all manner of things; there lies the power of the mind and the basis to this system. Established rule which is never broken: If an Immortal (a very wise being) wants to teach you they will come to you physically first, never mentally, you will be thrown around like a rag doll sometimes, you will understand that they are there and they will move you so powerfully you may ache for days afterwards. You may have to spend hours on your knees begging for them to come and even after one year you might not be successful. You can't pay £200 or £2,000,000 to get them to come. They will only come to you if they want to and only when you have proved yourself. If these things are not part of your system and it seems really easy to access the Immortals then you are being conned.

Tai Sung Lo Jun (Lei Erh Xian Shi) ?????

Hi BES the whole reason for my website was to achieve an end; a difficult task I'll give it that, but I could see that no movement was happening and not reaching and affecting the people I really needed to so when it came time to renew it, I didn't. There is nothing more I can do. A lot of Daoists don't believe in what I say, so how can I expect politicians, religious madman and the like to have any belief?

Hi Rene Sorry there aren't any and it is only people who are the followers of Lei Erh in a mediumship way may have access to these!

I thought I would add a point to your discussion here and then butt out. One has to remember Li Erh did not give his 'thoughts' any title and his thoughts he wrote numbered far in excess of the 81 that are generally accepted as his work. If you remember the Chinese are very aware of the magic of numbers. 81 is a magic number (9x9). Many Kung Fu (certainly not all, some patterns I have been taught numbered in excess of 160 moves long) patterns were designed to be 108 (9x12) moves long and were generally broken up into direction, element and yin and yang moves. These though may be heavily disguised. Unlike the Bible Li Erh's words are not anecdotal. Li Erh was beyond wanting fame and adoration for his work and it is exactly this why western scholars see his thoughts as being from many different authors, as he literally gave his thoughts away. Enough from me, I do look in now and again to see of there is any interesting topics!

Hi Folks Today is world Peace day if no one knows. Locally we had an event organised by the Christian Church and guess who couldn't be fitted in to speak! Yes that's me. Well my contribution to world peace is more about prevention, so folks I'm going to outline two major things that need to be sorted pretty quickly to prevent the war of all wars. 1 Get rid of all religions (a major source of cultural and human conflict), leaving people to follow the way. 2 Get rid of all nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction. Job done, peace in the world will be everlasting and if there are any conflicts they can be less devastating, but maybe prolonged.

As we have discussed the properties of 'De' and introduced 'Spirit Essence', here is verse 94 from Lei Erh which seems significant. Empty the mind of all things let it dwell in the infinite In the infinite the Dao dwells with the spirit essence In a trance the shaman opens his heart and mind to the infinite In this state he is realized When the spirit possesses him, he is at one with all things This is the highest state of man In this state he is unconcerned with the human condition, he is unconcerned with good or bad, life or death, profit or loss; for he is at one with the creator of all things Blessed are those who follow the path that leads to the Dao and to the spirit essence Blessed are those who know the three great powers of the universe; Spirit, Dao and the ten thousand things

This a good point and needs to be explained. 'Punishment' does not exist it is 'learning' that exists. Many Bums on here talk about self development and cultivation, but to know oneself, as it is written requires strength and courage. Why one might ask? Because we cannot see ourselves and it takes someone else to tell us what we are doing. To truly learn about ourselves and others requires real challenges, these may be terrible lessons involving life threatening incidences, but they are taught to us so that we really do learn. So a person like opendao who assumes he is so right and yet I have not seen anything of value that he has said to give me the impression that he actually knows anything, then decides out of his own ego, to debunk anything that is outside his very limited experience. We know he has a limited experience, because once faced with a traditional practice he debunked it and called it by the wrong Chinese words. I for one was immediately suspicious of this person and his intentions on this board. Hence forth he has mocked me and my masters teachings, even though it is a traditional practice, he has mocked my DDJ that Lao Tzu taught me, he has openly mocked the Immortals. So opendao won't be 'punished' as such, a very real lesson will be taught to him about himself in time. Of course the Immortals don't really have to show their hand, the energy that he has given will return to him. Of course an Immortal is not bothered by any profanity or anything that is said about them or towards them, they are beyond this. But come face to face with a person who is taught and communicates with them, they will suddenly take an interest in what is being said. Hours spent teaching a person like me, money and hours spent giving away that teaching to others for free is an investment that the Immortal masters have made only for the sake of others. That is a very valued gift. To debase it and not to give it any credence is an open invitation for the Immortal master to give a harsh reality lesson.