flowing hands

Actually I was quite surprised MH that you like Henricks translation as I took one look at the first verse and thought; " It doesn't make a great deal of sense" I haven't bothered with the rest as the first verse has already put me off.

Firstly I would not call it psychic powers, this word is a western description and has connotations of 'crank' and the like. Being taught and talking to spirits is a natural phenomenon practiced by peoples for many thousand's of years. It does involve the spirit giving you power that's for sure and then it is up to you to use that power wisely. Of course the main reason for being a holyman is to help people and this can take on many differing ways. You are obviously referring to JC and the setting alight of the paper. This sort of thing is very feeble compared to the power of an Immortal. An Immortal possesses the power to create planets and the like. Showing off is not the way and it surprises me that he should do this. But many Daoist sects don't use the DDJ as their underpinning knowledge and guidance. To use power when needed and for the right purpose is right, to use it for mere display is like showing off and of course there will always be someone else who is better than you.

Going back to the chapter, there is more to it than what is said. We have an understanding that a human or any other life form can clear themselves and be cleared of all things, a bit like the master in Chuang Tzu when he confronted the shaman. They can enter into a state that will show them true realization, a true picture of seeing the world how the Dao nourishes all things and drives the universe to be what it is. This is ultimate nei gong; one has joined with the Dao and the spirit essence. This is a real thing for I have personally experienced these things. One cannot get any higher in ones development once this is achieved, until the body dies. One realises that the body is just a limitation and the spirit can be and transform into anything and realise true freedom.

"The Dao begot one" This is not the One of pre Dao This one is the first manifestation of life before the forces were divided by Dao. Kharma is the universal law of Dao; one action will create another. So in its context many good actions spanning many lives create spiritual energy that attracts the attention of spiritual beings and the culmination of knowledge and wisdom. These create a reaction that leads this person/s or life form to meet opportunities that may take them beyond the mortal reincarnation. One action makes another. Positive actions create positive reactions in general as a rule of thumb though they may not be realised in a lifetime, but in another.

Hi infolad 1 It is funny you know and I'm sure many have heard this before. When one is young, and I started when I was young and now I am old, one has many realisations about what one has done, what one is doing etc. Having learn't and practiced thirteen different styles of Martial art and all these styles the forms are over 150 moves long in one long dance like form, I have come to realise that the very reason the ancient masters invented these forms were for many a reason. It wasn't only because they imitated animals or other forces primarily, because it could have been organised in a different way. It wasn't solely to give the potential warrior internal strength, nor great cardio vascular capacity, but the changing stances, the twisting, the turning, the jumping was all about creating a core and a body that was adaptable and able to change very quickly from one thing to another. If one was to do bench presses for exercise, one would develop those muscles in that way; very useful for bench pressing but not for anything else. Horse stance is good to make you strong, but it is only a tiny part of stance work that creates that flexible and powerful core that a martial artist needs. So why bother with just horse stance, is it not just like bench pressing when we have available so many other stances and ways to move? I remember when I was young taking on the attitude that to hold horse stance for along time was going to be good for me. Well in some respects it was, but in others it was only a small fraction of what I should be doing and then I realised that the more I practiced the exhausting long forms the better it was for me. So no more sitting in horse stance, only temporarily while doing part of an external qigong or martial form, because I was practicing it stationary and it was not invented to be a stationary stance. It was invented to be a stance that goes from one to the other without sometimes the stance even being noticed that it was there. My point is horse stance is ok, but it is only a small part of a very rich picture which contains yin, yang and the five elements that have been invented for the entire body conditioning, unlike the bench press. I am cautious in what I teach I have seen some bad and funny reactions particularly to some kinds of qigong and I know from my own practice how effective it can be. Qigong is for health and wellbeing, if it has adverse affects on people because of their body type or internal weaknesses, then one has to change it and be aware.

Hi Flying high Yes, and no, Qi gong, neigong, nei dan, martial arts...... a crocodile pit that many fall into and don't really realise that they have fallen into it until its too late. There is no standard formula on which to use as a bench mark, as we have seen here 27 pages devoted to people who have followed the teachings of mopai. They really don't know whether JC taught Jim properly and they don't know whether jim taught anyone else properly. The nightmare they are in is self perpetuating and sustained by ignorance and a stubborn denial of obvious flaws. So we see backwards and forwards endless debate about what I would consider very basic techniques they are doing and are hoping to achieve some sort of power out of them. Although related, energy arts and martial arts are different and the practices are different to achieve an end, so their on differing paths. Martial art is mostly mechanical, the great thing about Chinese martial arts is that they have a basis on health, so joints, bones and ligaments should all be used with this in mind and were developed so. For instance it is no good trying to hit a dense heavy object without all your joints lined up properly, or with your knuckles. Even with years of conditioning, it is so easy to break your own knuckles when hitting a hard object like someone's skull. So what is the answer? Use a different technique that won't inflict injury upon oneself.

Hi flying High People can write what they like, it doesn't mean that they are right. For instance if I was to get a middle age man to do low, deep horse stance it may be very detrimental to his health. He may have medical problems that would be aggravated by doing this exercise. He may have a tendency to hypertension and the effort and tension in his muscles may raise his blood pressure beyond what would be acceptable. Some young people are also susceptible to this condition and others. When teaching (which I have done for many years) Qigong and martial art to various people one has a duty of care. Some exercise are suitable to some and not to others. One can't randomly teach people the same, the reason why most people want to learn qigong is to improve their health, it would be totally wrong of me as a teacher not to make careful note of each persons body and medical history and then teach them appropriately. In the case of the middle aged hypertensive man, one would avoid teaching stances and techniques that would involve 'tension'. I would teach them relaxation and then exercises and techniques that would allow the blood and Qi to flow far more freely. Getting this person to hurt their legs and produce a lot of tension in their body by doing the horse stance for even 15 minutes would really not achieve anything. Especially only if its come from films of kung fu!

SC The feet are supposed to be parallel, but anatomically they are supposed to follow the knee alignment and turn out. But one practices with feet parallel for martial technique. After doing this for a long time the knee joint gets used to the awkward position. It is a misnomer about kung fu schools having to put their students through hours of pain standing in low horse stance, particularly through film, this image has been adopted. Horse stance is just a very basic stance, the ability to stand strongly and commit martial techniques comes from being able to lower ones centre of gravity and having very strong legs. Just doing the horse stance will only build the strength in one way. One can stand on one leg on ones tip toes and commit full power into a technique and into a hard object if the right practice has been done. The horse stance is not the best of martial stances to adopt, many people use it the wrong way and it is not easy to move quickly from this stance to another when vital milli-seconds are vital to ones well being in a real fight.

Most nei gong/qigong has a basic tenant of 'universal stance'. Universal stance is used so that the body is in a neutral position ready to stimulate the forces in the body and to absorb them from the universe. Even the most advance nei gong come back to this stance. Horse stance should only be used briefly, as it has a very strong stimulating effect on various aspects of the body. Horse stance is used in combination with dragon etc. for people with very weak internals. Even so it is not held for long and in martial forms the horse stance is only held for only seconds before the forms take and move on with other stances as the techniques flow from one to the other. Remember that these stances are martial and are not held deeply, but solidly for fractions of seconds. Any stances that are practised too deeply and held too long cannot be applied very easily in real martial circumstances. The flowing between stances and technique must therefore appear to be 'light' and not stolid. Neigong can be extremely powerful and strong; its effect on the body can be drastic. Do not practice any form of neigong without the proper supervision of a reputable teacher and health matters/concerns being disclosed.

In days gone by it would be people like me who would advise and lead people in their daily lives. It is a shame that today politicians are not firstly spiritual masters....second thoughts most spiritual masters I wouldn't trust them to look after my grannies old false teeth, let alone millions of peoples lives!!!

The word politics actually means the organisation of humans and yes the struggle for power and leadership is certainly a strong element. Wisdom within politics is the basis of using power to the benefit of people and other life. Sadly they do go hand in hand and it is the fact that politicians are not wise and generally are in politics for the money and power that the organisation of humans is so poorly met, where one section of society or other life is preyed upon by another. Of course as Daoist we seek equality, people ruling themselves and respect and value for other life. There must be someone to decide about how humans organise themselves, but it is always the wrong people who get into these positions. Lei Erh gives us some ideas about what he thinks on this subject and it is an important one.

It doesn't matter as long as you don't become a mopai follower you should be ok Still, I would like to see 27 pages devoted to the understanding of passages of the DDJ and that people are taking on-board and thinking about what Lei Erh has left us!

only slightly!

one before the other

'Spirt, Dao and the ten thousand things' The ten thousand things include humans These three are great powers because of how they have come to be influential on each other. Of course living things are dependant on the other two to a certain extent, although once living things are gone there still is the other two!

Actually 'Jing' is the culmination of all that one has inherited from your fore fathers and Mothers, it is your store of energy that can be enhanced or damaged by various ways of living, eating and exercise. The pineal gland has nothing to do with the third eye. The root of the third eye is in us all, it is only if we are taught how to develop this and send energy to this area to make it work for us. We must first be taught how to 'open' the third eye and how to cultivate it. It is a specialised spiritual practice that requires specific nei gong techniques. Despite to the contrary belief of some on this forum, Mao Shun have practiced many different nei gong techniques for thousands of years. I myself have practiced many of these techniques and the higher level ones do not involve any sort of meditation. Many techniques are hinted at in the DDJ.

No I distrust it if I haven't got a disc to repair it!

Not only can I not sign out, but I can't quote in my replies!

Hi Sunshine007, if all fails you could contact me and I can beg the Immortal masters for you and send you something Good luck Flowing Hands

Lets look at this clearly without the blinkers that the likes of more pie and his associates have acquired. The Asian teachers have traditionally never trusted western 'gwei lo' and in actual fact they never trust anyone! The likelihood of Jim receiving the true teachings is miniscule. The vast majority of Asian teachers test and re-test any potential students even at the lowest levels. I did the same and chucked out of my own school, at least two people who were entirely unsuitable to be taught martial art let alone anything else. One has held a grudge against me ever since and has posted abuse at me because I sieved him out early on in the process as being completely unsuitable. I myself have been tested and retested by my own Masters and at each stage the master needs to be completely sure of the student before he commits his time and some very secret information and techniques to another. This process takes a great deal of time; many, many years in fact, there's no 'hippy cool man' I just reveal everything to you because you've become interested in what I teach. If this was the case, John Chang is a complete fool and a fraud and I don't believe that he is really that stupid. For to give away that which he most values as easy as that would be foolhardy at the very least.

Boundaries; we tend to set them all the time whether it is a way to aim at or a way to restrict ourselves or others. Verse 94 is all about self cultivation; of furthering the self to enlightenment. When a shaman is in a trance of a divine spirit he/she is taken over and goes into a very deep sleep like state where they are at one with the infinite and the divine. They are literally taken to another place. So in the infinite one is aware but not aware, one is a t peace but not at peace etc. one has come to the culmination of being at one with all things. It is a state of being that has to be practiced and then realized. Such people who have been to this state and come back have a different view of the world; this is important.

Here is verse 93 form Li Erh Xian Shi for you all to discuss. I thought this section needs some interest so here goes! The spirit is the essence of all things Seek and find this spirit The shaman knows this spirit and so it is revered In revering the spirit one knows the beginning of all things; the ancients called this 'Spirit Way'. It was the ancient understanding. The ancients knew and revered the 'Spirit Way' and so Dao became a reality Dao is the way things are, the spirit is the essence. Make life simple and follow the Dao, you then may become closer to the spirit essence.

I'm afraid more than ego!

Of course remember we are made of the universe, the universe is within us, if you understand and have come to know this fully one can acquire the keys (skills) in which to unlock that door. Isn't this what Lei Erh has been talking about in many of his teachings?

To add my two pence worth here. Lei Erh never called his writings anything when he wrote them down and the order of the chapters were not as they are now. Copies of the writings were taken from the bamboo slithers and then someone (the gatekeeper) decided to compile what he thought was a good collection of the verses. Being A Daoist work, 81 verses were chosen and further copied, the rest were laid aside. Many Chinese pictograms had slightly differing meanings to what they are today. Refinement of the language and the changing of characters is an evolutionary process that still goes on today. 'De' meaning 'virtue' is almost missing entirely from my version; it is a misnomer that misguides the naive away from far more reaching understandings. I have only called my version the DDJ, so that people will recognise what it is. Otherwise it must be called differently. Lei Erh lived in a time and was part of a non intellectual Daoist culture, it was an everyday practice for them in terms of spiritual and energy cultivation in living closer to nature and the elements. So his work would be involved with politics, shamanism, observation of nature and natural forces etc. The heart of the verses lies deeply in the culture and understandings of the world 2,500 years ago. There one should try and dwell.