flowing hands

Hi Joeblast, I was just re reading this and realised that some gross unfairness has gone on in this post. h.uriah makes some nasty comments about being the apprentice of the Monkey King etc. and certain members here particularly Athereous and Green tiger jump on my back for me mimicking the jibes certain people made when I make a pertinent point about Daoist cultivation. As a Daoist who has been under a traditional master for 32 years and that master being enlightened, I have no need for Jerry Johsons book and I would certainly not pay the money he's asking for it. I'll go back to my original point which if any of these Jerry Johson sycophants knew anything about cultivation, would realise that you are aiming to have nothing in your heart other than the Dao when cultivating and you can't call it anything else. For further tips on Daoist alchemy and cultivation see chapter 83 of the DDJ new verses.

Yes but its not me I am just the person who is receiving the verse. What I understand is this; I have been taught that nothing existed and then for some reason a tiny vibration occurred. Over millions of years this vibration got louder and stronger. As this happened heat began to be generated. After a long time the pressure was enormous that was created by the One. Eventually this burst into dimension, causing the nothingness to be pulled in and conversely the expansion to happen at the same time. So at that moment the One gives birth to the Dao, the Dao is the way all things will then follow that force. The one remains in all of us and in all things as well as the Dao that has helped us to mold what we are. This has nothing to do with God. What the One is we really don't know, but it is not God or a living thing, its the creator of all things along with the Dao. It is so close to being Dao though, because when the One manifest, so Dao was created at that same moment. But it was not Dao that caused the first vibration. If you think about this it makes absolute sense. (to me anyway!)

Sorry something wrong with the posting In 87 he talking about the very beginning of all things, the thing that actually created Dao. Before Dao there was nothing, but something then created which manifested itself into Dao. Li Erh is calling this the One. So he says that the One as so described gave substance for the existence of Dao. With the existence of Dao so that gave rise to the ten thousand things. Now what he calls the one in an earlier verse is the first life form that had no gender or means of reproduction. At the early stages of life, bacteria like life came to fruition and died very quickly, these were of no gender. Eventually they evolved so they could reproduce as the forces were divided within them. So we get two. Dao is the manifestation of the One. The way of the universe manifests itself as the Dao. Hope I'm making myself clear.

What is the One? Forget your terms and read what is said.

Verse 87

Of course, many chapters echo what has been said before. Remember these verses are not set out like a book and are the thoughts of Li Erh as his understanding of the Dao came to him. So themes will be repeated. I do believe he has another 19 to teach me.

No the drum is hit by the shaman or someone who is part of the sacred dance, to create the rhythm. This rhythm is set to help people focus and lose themselves to ecstatic experience.

Here is two more verses 85

It does but Li Erh is talking about finding ones way along the path, which may involve many obstacles, including facing the self.

Well for western people it is not within their culture to lay themselves completely to the surrender of an Immortal or God. Traditional practices in shamanism require the novice to be completely humble and to show great respect for the Immortal master. These things are within the Asian culture, or should I say were. As it is written, to begin with one must empty the mind of everything in order for it to begin to understand. Desire which comes from the heart/mind etc. has to be let go of, until the mind/heart is completely free and empty. This is very difficult. Dao xin is a state of being and understanding that can only be achieved after one has achieved the above.

Here is verse 84

When the spirit comes upon you you will have realization.

Well CD I can't spell it out enough, here you have a unique opportunity for true understanding of Li Erh's words. He has been my teacher for thirty years along with my other two Immortal Masters. It is unique even more so because Li Erh never teaches shamans, but he has chosen me to do so. Let go of your prejudices and any idea about what you think you know. Many things in this world are real and possible, it is your mind that blocks your understanding to even the basic knowledge. The whole teaching of Li Erh is about being open to all things, like the Dao, so practice it!!!

There's a bit more to it than that!!! But yes the mind and heart can run together or separately. Some things can only be known or understood by the mind and some only by the heart.

Yes I agree with your points about the tree, but I got the feeling when Li Erh was telling me this part, he was emphasizing aspects to do with us being humble and respecting the Dao as the source of life for all things. The colours relate to the depth of your cultivation.

Hi Jeff In Daoist cultivation there are many levels, when one gets to the highest level your energy can be seen and it is Gold. This is the energy of Immortals. White and blue are other energy spectrum's of lower levels of cultivation. So Li Erh is describing the Ancient Masters as reaching the highest level of their knowledge of the Dao. The various verses to come from Li Erh are going to be more specific, less political, but more to do with practices. This is probably why they were left out. For instance, 83 and the great tree. What does it remind you of? For anyone who practices Qi gong there should be some symbolic reference. To me it reminded me straight away about the Holyman/woman humbly surrendering themselves to the earth and to the Heavens. For we can never learn anything without being humble.

So it is said 'those that know of the great Dao are just a few, those that think they know are many'

And so I cast my pearls amongst the swine! Sorry folks taking off the chapters will publish them all up to 108

Hey guys I haven't even written anything yet and yet there are now two pages of playing with words. I hope there is going to be more respect for what I write if I can ?

I am afraid I am not fluent in written or spoken Chinese, but luckily Li Erh is fluent in English! Immortals can speak and write many languages, unlike us mere humans they can learn almost in an instant. If LI Erh honours me with his teachings then it will be the best translation and meaning in English you will get. There will be no need of Chinese characters.

The DDJ was definitely written by Li Erh Xian Shi. It may not have been in book form like it is presented today, but it was written by him. It was not called DDJ when he wrote it, someone else has called it that since. He called it then 'The sacred texts of the way and its heart' and it had more verses than what we have today. Maybe sometime he may tell me what they were and I'll write them down for all to read. A first!!! Any confusion with texts found in Confucian graves can be dismissed. Daoist were very much opposed to Confucian ideas, although scribes may have used those ideas to alter the DDJ.

CHAPTER 80 A small village has fewer people. Within the village there are machines that can work ten to a thousand times harder than man. But they are not needed. In a small village, the people work together. They use their labour to sow and grow food. Their time is spent naturally on this occupation. They live in harmony with nature, and the Ten Thousand Things. So being in harmony, they return to the state of the uncarved block of wood; simple, honest and straightforward. The people take death seriously and so they strengthen their bodies, and do not travel great distances. They remain at one. Being at one they have no need for boats and carriages. Being simple and possessing very little, they have no need for weapons, so they don't display them. They return to craft in place of writing. Their food is plain but good, their clothes simple but strong and warm, their houses safe and secure. They are happy in their ways, for they live without interference, and too many laws. So they do not intrude upon their neighbours. They live in peace and grow old and die in harmony with nature, and the Ten Thousand Things.

Now it is a shame that you choose to interpret texts that clearly to someone like me who is taught by the person concerned, is entirely wrong on many counts. Li Erh has been my teacher for nearly thirty years and he taught me his true understanding of the Dao which if you care to, you can download this for free from my site. Why did he do this? Quite simple really, because there are so many differing 'interpretations'; his original work was copied so many times and unfortunately scribes would very often add and subtract things from the original. After this, the process would carry on in the same vein. So what do you get??? Now you could quite sincerely say "I don't believe you Flowing Hands" and I would say, I also understand this. But if you know anything about ancient Chinese practices, Shamanism is a well known and was widely practiced in China for thousands of years. Li Erh was only giving his own take on well known ideas that existed for many thousands of years before he wrote the DDJ. Most things were transmitted orally and very rarely were they committed to any form of picture. Li Erh teaches us to be 'open hearted and open minded', being this one can see where things are roughly coming from, I would suggest to you to follow this course and to take heed of these words and continue to add your point of view to the discussion whether one is right or wrong. Only great learning can be achieved from making mistakes and not getting the point of things, one should never fear making a mistakes. We all don't know each other, but we are sharing around the world in discussion of a piece of work that is beyond the ordinary. That is a great thing and our view points may be different but that is what makes it good. So I encourage you to keep going

You miss my point he is NOT impartial! And Chapter five is not about this.