flowing hands

Nei kung refers to a different practice. lei fa comes from the five thunder magic. Neither of these have any relevance. All fa's can be developed to differing ends and results. Immortals 'fa' comes from them, when you are accepted as a shaman the Immortal gives you his fa or power and depending on what and how he/she teaches you is what you will learn and can do with this 'fa'.

There enters the great confusion and knowledge of the way and obscurity to true enlightenment! Some may say breaking bricks or studying Mopai level whatever is. The ancients saw the world in a different way. How they described it and perceived it is most important for us now, so we have real understanding. They were simple and had little to distract them, unlike us today. Therefore true words are important so that we may all know 'Dao Xin' 'the path of the heart', or 'the heart of the way' 'the heart to enlightenment', 'the spirit of the way' That last one really is loosing its meaning (I could go on, it is difficult to translate it the right way!!!) Your mystical fella friend!

I really don't like being negative, but one can't simply translate ancient Chinese and hope that it is in any way right! Example modern Chinese word Xing meaning star, very pertinent to Daoism. Li Erh's time may have meant multiple things for example; light from darkness, sparkle, light within darkness, mysterious light in the void, pointed light that never fails, bright light, sky light, small light, unknown light, light out of darkness, Immortal spirit, spirit light, sage, etc etc. So when the ancient Chinese used a character that we now use to mean 'star' did it really have the same meaning. Add to that translation into another language and cultural and religious undertones, what do we have? Mish Mash, famous Bulgarian dish!!!!

I am not an OAP nor am I middle aged, somewhere in between! I have no earthly master. Only three celestial masters. Yes its coming, not unless some folks start to believe what I'm saying. I have seen in it in full horrific colour. I have been given so many visions in the past that have come true now just the most important one to come. Please someone who matters believe it.

There are no rules, the Dao is ever changing, people and life will do and not do accordingly.

The Immortal who came to me was the Monkey God, the diety I am not allowed to say who he is, he is a Daoist but not categorized as an Immortal. Ie he doesn't live in the Heavenly void, but many people honor him. Developing the third eye is not suitable to be put on a forum!!!!

'Give up Sainthood, stop preaching, let people follow the Dao and it will be a hundred times better for everyone. If people are at one, is there any need for religion or morality? Give up ingenuity, don't look for profit and bandits and thieves will disappear. It is more important to follow the ways of nature; to observe its order and workings, to see the simplicity, to realise one's true nature, to cast off selfishness and dispel desire. For here lies the way of Dao'. Li Erh would never write about filial piety; a Confucian idea, not Daoist. He would definitely get rid of organized religion and rule others by turning away from advancement and taking from nature only what people needed to survive. There are no rules in Daoism, so why would he speak of morality?

For me its quite easy really, for being a trad. Daoist shaman I have begged Li Erh and Chuang tzu to come to me. Li Erh has been my teacher for nearly thirty years along with Huang Lao Xian Shi, Hua Tuo Xian Shi and Chi Tien Da Shen. So the question of whether Li Erh is a real person to me has never been in question. He is not a Daoist say like the Monkey God who knows hundreds of different martial arts etc. and draws holy fu's, although Li Erh can do it and has done it for me on many occasions. Nor does he really specialize in exorcism like the Monkey God does or Huang Lao Xian Shi, for instance who are renowned for it. But he specializes really in the path of true enlightenment, which is where his sacred writings can lead us. The meeting of Li Erh and Confucius may be of interest to scholars of today, but I would say of very little interest to Li Erh. It is very rare for Li Erh to come to trad. shamans amongst the sects. in Asia. I met a couple when I was in Malaysia and they said in all the years they had been practicing, he had only come once to them. Li Erh generally leaves his bond brothers/ sisters of the particular sect to teach and go to shamans. When I mean bond brothers/sisters I mean other Immortal masters of the sect. If you go on my site, there is a vid. of me begging for the Immortal master to draw the fa fu, fa Shui. Ie to hold my arms and draw and transmit their power through me. The film in question sees the Monkey God come and do this. The Monkey God I would say is my primary teacher out of the three, although I am most honored if any of the Immortal masters come. So you will see that if I beg Li Erh to come to me and he comes, I can ask him about many things, that's how I can be so assured.

This of course is the trouble. One can delve into ancient manuscripts, oral tradition etc. and uncover actually someone else s version. Ancient Chinese of Li Erh's time had differing meanings to the modern and I do believe there are many words missing. My name 'Flowing Hands' hasn't got an equivalent character to describe it in modern Chinese. One could use words to write the 'hands' that 'move' or 'flow', but that would be completely wrong. For it is the energy that is within the hands that flow and move according to the Dao, which would be nearer the right meaning. In Daoist adepts a name was given that described a person whose hands moved like this in ancient Chinese. Since such specialist words have been lost, it doesn't exist anymore. So we have the same for ancient history and text, one cannot say for sure what was what. But what I can tell you is that both Li Erh was a real person and so was Chuang tzu. Li Erh's DDJ was the culmination of many Daoist ideas that already existed and were common knowledge amongst Daoist adepts and masters of that era. Li Erh with his clear and precise mind was able to put these down and many of his own ideas that were not of that understanding. Although not all of the ideas were his, he definitely wrote them down and they were given a title. But he told me that he entitled his writings as 'the sacred writings of the way and its heart', not 'the way and its power'. Best advice is to be very careful in translating and interpreting ancient texts!

Why are people so interested in Power???? John Chang etal are really nothing, they have a miniscule amount of power and everyone is jumping around like their Gods! Half of it is fake and shrouded in mystic for there lies its power and interest. Compare their power to the power of an Immortal; there really is no comparison. A top Immortal could create a qi ball called the sun and planets to go with it. Now that's what I call power. If we are going to be interested in powerful beings lets stick with the truly wise and the enlightened and give our respect and faith to those higher beings in the Heavens and not half cocked human beings, however they may appear so fascinating to the naive.

I think whoever this God is, its beyond being anything that you say you want them to be!

Best advice I could give, do not set up an altar in your home without it being blessed. If the idols are blessed they will be 'open eye'. The part where you have got your idols will have to be sacred and not defiled. Better idea, you can obtain a simple wall incense holder, place this on a wall outside, about head height. If you do not know a prayer I can send you one.

A carpenter could really only know about wood, whereas a shaman knows about the underlying principle of energy and the way of Heaven. Which do you feel is closer to knowing about enlightenment? Li Erh was not a shaman, he is also one of my teachers and has been for 30 years. The reason why I started this thread is to change the western view of the DDJ. As stated it was written in a deeply set culture of mysticism and shamanism, most translators have merely put their regimented and western minds to interpreting the verses. The interconnections between life, energy and the manifest Dao is what Li Erh talked about. Knowing and recognizing these things, which is the same path as shamanism. When one can be at one with the Dao, so one can feel and be in touch with the energy of living and non living things. Li Erh frequently expounds on the underlying principle and its connection and how we should know this. Is this basic teaching not the basis of shamanism?

Mostly though, sages and Immortals were shamans before they became Immortals, for through the path of shamanism lies true enlightenment and therefore a true understanding of the Dao. There is very little similarities between Christian and other religions, only what western philosophers put on the words of Li Erh and Chuang Tzu etc. Daoism sees the world completely different. Philosophy is about theorizing about how the world could be, or organizing it into some framework, Li Erh talked about the culture and natural observation of what was real in his world. No philosophy there, all deep cultural beliefs held in the fabric of society for thousands of years.

But when you read the DDJ it is about recognizing the life force and the spirit behind all things. A shaman is an expert in knowing energy and seeing that which is unseen to ordinary folks. The Chuang Tzu you quoted is an example of two different levels of energy, though they come from the same source. The shamans in this was only half trained where as the master had already realized his primal force. Sages and shamans in Li Erh's time were mostly the same thing.

In my many years of practice I have come across many entities of the good and bad kind. Some of the bad ones were horrific and are movie potential. One got me in my sleep, froze me with its power until my soul came out of my arm as a last resort and applied the fa to destroy it. It made such a terrible cackle as it shot away to avoid my fa. One entity hit me on the head during sleep (one is far more vulnerable when asleep and any evil entity will come at that time) and I woke up with a terrible pain in my head. Wasn't going to have any of that, tracked it down and destroyed it! Most entities are not interested in people unless they do things that attract their attention. This is why one must be very careful with any spiritualism, any invocation and such the like practices. Any folks who do suffer, or think they suffer from entities I can beg the Immortal masters to draw them a holy amulet and it will gone as soon as they hold the amulet.

Hi Manitou here is some advice, don't worry about sword hand and fingers, use your palms. On the palm is a much larger 'pool' of energy point. Get yourself into a calm and detached state, relax completely. When you feel right say in your mind what you want to happen, giving a command is really important. If you have seen my vid. you see the Immortal master moving my arms and drawing a command on the paper (fa fu). It is important to give energy a direction and a purpose. Get your subject to breathe deeply and relax before you give the healing. You will find most people will instantly feel better just after doing this. The reason why, is many pains and diseases are caused by pycho-stress and many emotional traumas not resolved. Tensions in the body blocking the path of energy and vital function. After your subject has relaxed fully they will feel a sense of 'release' and even strong emotions. You can help someone to heal themselves by literally helping them into a certain state of being. There they can experience the inner blockages of mind and then the body being temporarily released. In that state it is then important to give 'self help' advice. For it was they themselves who 'healed' themselves. When it comes to energy changing tissue, most peoples energy is not developed to do this. The giver of this energy must be very cultivated and powerful, for the giving of such energy can very easily be depleted in the giver. Here it does not matter what state the subject is in, for the giver is so powerful that they can use their fa to change tissue. Developing the lower dan tien is very important too and specific 'tightening' exercises of the lower dan tien should be practiced if you want to develop your energy above that of normal running and to stop depletion.

I came on the site today and found that underneath my member title appeared a warning status. There is no history of warnings given or about to be given. This strikes me as moderation bullying by placing it there. I see no other member with the same warning status, which suggests and gives other members the idea that I am a liability and could be given warnings at any given time. I would suggest to the moderation team that they immediately remove this and issue a public apology, or give concrete evidence why I should be 'branded'. 1984 or what!

I think you need to call someone an idiot or something like that!!!!

Its interesting, when did this appear? I was on yesterday and no warning status appeared. It reminds me of the China history forum which used a similar method and I found the moderation there quite odd..........LOL Why don't the mods tell us about this?

Aaron, what is your definition of Dao then?

One can 'see' what has passed from the very beginning of time and so one can 'see' what is to come till the very end of time. Why is this so?

I have learned from Liu Ren Xian shi in the past, but he is not my master. MTS struck me straight away as being a fraud, he did not have as the head of his sect his master. On my website you will see my three Immortal master listed there as the head of the sect. Anyone can ask for healing, exorcism etc. which is only by donation, ie they pay for the post first and then send something if they want to help upkeep of the temple. Best left well alone and sorry your friend has been conned.

Thats why I am here giving you what has come through me as the truth. My DDJ is a divine work; it has come directly from Li Erh. Of course you and anyone else are entitled to dispute this, but the truth will be out, as they say.

I think you need to look at the two pictogram s of wu wei and then understand their root meaning. Dao Xin is the spiritual path that leads to enlightenment. 'Daoist heart'.