flowing hands

Hey I missed out on this please tell me what happened to the jeff thread!

If we look at the nature of spirituality, there are so many differing ways to look at things and many different teachings. Where people are in their lives tends to lead them on a certain path and perspective. People particularly like to take from one tradition and then from another. This they feel makes their learning more whole. One might say as you have, that this is an open minded path and a path that leads to greater understanding. What I say is, it all depends on what those teachings are saying. Many teachings are misleading, and those that are involved in them are completely unaware. What ever you follow, It works for you because you hold that perspective and you are at that point in your life. But a complete teaching like Lei Erh's verses requires a fundamental change in perspective and a perspective that holds onto nothing. It is complete and the traditional aim of Dao followers was to attain Immortality. Now, the DDJ teaches you that and how you can obtain it. I've have never said you are a fool that's your own slant and the way you interpret my words. Don't go down the same path as many here, who tend to invent things because of their own differing perspectives. The DDJ may not do it for you, that's certainly fine by me. no words or persuasions on my part would be able to reach you and is a waste of time in so far as you are not on that wave length to appreciate its real value as an instruction manual on many ways. That is why it is so complete above all other writings IMO. I might add, if you belong to a Dao sect, they normally have evenings/times where people can come and discuss the verses of Lei Erh, linking the words with self cultivation practices and perspectives, for it from those words that such practices have emerged. Although certain teachers teach practices many don't actually know the origin of those practices and to a certain extent why one really does them. Many have been changed and the slant changed by particular teachers.

It's funny how people in general don't read properly and put their own slant on things. It is so common. One needs realisation before it is possible to have understanding, or visa versa. One needs to practice techniques to both understand and have realisation. Whether you think the DDJ, as many do in the west, is a dry old book of philosophy is entirely your own perspective and your level of understanding and if you are content with that, then that's fine. One must remember that Lei Erh spent most of his young life in the mountains under the guidance of many great cultivators, shamans and masters. His words are therefore of great importance and the secrets they hold offer to the true cultivator, true realisation; Immortality. Anyone who is a cultivator of self leading to the Dao, would miss the greatest manual on cultivation they could possibly read. That's where those two words come in again. I have studied the DDJ for nearly forty years and been given formal tuition in its understanding for almost as long. It is the root and foundation for true cultivators of the Dao.

Seems like you need to spend some time over on the DDJ threads! If you understand the DDJ it's all about practice and realisation. Perhaps that's why there are so many crap Daoist practitioners out there.

Well its up to you, the Immortal Master will teach his lesson one way or another. It is not for you to be calling me or him out on a whim to please you. Who do you think you are? You have a perspective; if you remember I PM'd you some months ago, I could foresee out of all the thousands of members here, it would be you who would put up the most obstruction to my work in telling what is true about the Heavens. So I warned you not to interfere for this was the work that the Immortals asked me to do. So some time I started talking about how Christianity and Jesus were false and you were unable to stop yourself from interfering with what I was doing. Self control, humbleness and wisdom don't seem to be your strongest virtues. If you want your answers you can go to the temple and beg for yourself and in the process you can learn about yourself. So I shall wait again and bide my time, until the right opportunity arises. The root and foundation of all Dao sects is a true understanding of the DDJ. If somone is a true Dao, they will be spending most of their time on the discussion of this work. They may spend the rest of their life trying to work out its meaning and timeless secrets, but this is what a Dao follower will do. It will give reason as to why one should be following that way, why one is doing certain practices and why one should not be doing others. So far all I've seen of you is clever words, I want to see what you actually know, whether you have any foundation. So far I have never seen you or the other decenters over on proper Dao teachings. I won't make a judgment, but.........We will see.

I begged the Immortal master your questions and he basically said 'it is not for you to be testing him it is for him to test you' . There is certainly no need to open up a new thread we have had threads going on each verse for years. As I have said the root and fundamental understanding of Dao is knowing the DDJ, so its all there spill the beans, lets see what you know.

I'm not grumpy nor am I a dude, I am convinced you wouldn't even know the proper meaning of wu wei or where it comes from and how it is expressed in nature.

You really have no answer other than a stupid one, good luck with being so ignorant!

What!! Then why did Lei Erh write about Dao? Where are you getting such nonsense from? You desperately need to look at the history of Dao and educate yourself. The term 'Dao' is made up of two pictograms; a leg meaning to walk and an ancient shaman wearing ceremonial head dress of deer antlers. The deer antlers were thought to help with communication with the spirits. So we have 'to walk in a wise way'. Robes and funny hats came a long time after Lei Erh was given the title of the father of Daoism. Your attitude here is that of complete ignorance. There is no significant work that remains older than the DDJ, only Huang Di and the I Ching, which deal with neidan and divination. There is no significant Daoist work that deals with all the aspects of Dao in the entire history of Dao other than the DDJ or the writings of Zuang Shi, these remain the principle works of Daoism. I am relying on my teacher. Others here may rely on sects of antiquity, 1000 times passed on and probably is completely different to the original. Mine is from the original source.

That is because you haven't yourself spent any time on the DDJ thread at all! Who was the first person to write down any comprehensive work on Daoist thought and practices? What great written work is used as a foundation knowledge by virtually all Dao sects that have anything about them? Who is celebrated as the Father of Dao and a top Immortal? I did not attack him or call him that, I just said I was not a great fan of the Robe and silly hat brigade. You've taken it further and altered my words to suit your purpose.I am allowed to express my opinion just as an ignoramus like you are.

@Walker I am not a fan of the robe wearing silly hat brigade that call themselves Daoists, but it seems to me that you do an awful lot of calling out of people on TDB's. The litmus paper for any aspiring Dao follower is of course not what sect they belong to, not what sects they've googled up info on, not whether they are celibate or not, not whether they have travelled to China, Taiwan and other countries and tried out some sects there, not whether they have read the Daoist Cannon in English or Chinese. No, on here, TDB's the litmus paper for me is, have they spent many a time on the threads to do with the DDJ or Xuan Shi? Why? One might ask oneself. Because knowing a true understanding of the DDJ gives a person a real foundation and a root; a root that doesn't need a robe, a silly hat and all the other trappings that these systems have. So tell me Walker, when was the last time you posted on the 81 verses of the DDJ?

Verse 55 He who is at one with the Dao experiences all things. Therefore the sage is whole. He experiences the union of man and woman, so he knows of the ways of mankind. Without this, he is not following the way of nature. The sage is one of the ten thousand things, but his grip on the Dao is firm Having..........

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As I started this thread I think I'll add some facts. The Coca cola company has one of the worst recycling records of any company. Worldwide they own 500 odd drinks companies. They produce 4000 plastic bottles every second and are running down their glass bottles to nearly nothing. 150 billion tyres are needed to be disposed of every year. In places like Cambodia and Thailand 73 million acres of Rainforest are destroyed every year for rubber tree planting. Workers who collect and process the latex mostly live in terrible conditions all to furnish the world with new tyres. Buy retreads is at least some of the answer. Do you know that a large percentage of the charcoal used in Europe comes from tropical rainforests? Ten tones of wood have to be felled and slow burnt to produce one ton of charcoal. Deforestation in places like Nigeria is at a rate of 7.3 million hectares every year just to feed the markets of Europe. Many of these people who are workers chopping down trees and burning live in dire poverty. This is one major contribution to climate change. Why not learn to make your own charcoal or buy some from proper sustained forests. More facts later perhaps