flowing hands

Very funny.... LOL. When do you think the world and ALL LIFE can stop suffering???? Never, it is part of the natural world, we are all born to suffer, if this is what you would describe as living. I do not describe living as suffering. What one experiences is life. If one wants to put labels on it, then one is sure to start suffering, because you have already decided that an experience is suffering and your going to suffer under that experience. It is just a part of life and has gone on like that since the very beginning. No one can change this and to try and change this is to corrupt the world.

Any old fool can have compassion and think they are doing good, but a wise person can see beyond compassion and all of the human labels that we make of good and bad etc. and see that the world is ruled by letting things take their course and by not interfering.

Well you asked me so I told you the truth, as any good Daoist would.

It is not a tale, many gods and goddesses become so, not because they were enlightened when they were mortal, but were given this title because of their great deeds they may have done while they were alive. One of my masters Hua Tuo Xian Shi was not enlightened when he was alive, but his contribution to medicine and qigong was enormous, so he was given the title Of immortal and power by the Jade Emperor when his spirit was brought before him, after being executed by a corrupt official. Being a wu shi I have access to a great deal of information that is not available to others, that's how I know.

Sorry folks, I hate to be negative, I don't think this chap is in any way enlightened!! He hasn't demonstrated anything that shows me any real understanding. You can't buy real enlightenment and only an Immortal can help you to this stage, for they are truly enlightened. The Buddha became enlightened and a god only by the grace of the Jade Emperor. Remember Immortals are enlightened and have developed their divine power when they were alive, their spirits having left their bodies when they died became immortal. The Buddha did not develop his divine power when alive, so when he died he was given divine power by the Jade Emperor. The Buddha may have been 'awake' to some things, but not to others. Those that are enlightened sit in silence and allow the world to follow its own course, they never interfere, not unless they really have to!!!

I want to go back to what Snowmunki said about the Dao and the female, an important issue. Back many thousands of years ago the way was followed by both men and women. Women were seen by their men as the producers and purveyors of true magic!!! They were revered as they had this incredible ability to produce a small infant from nowhere!!! So women were held in great esteem and so the WU pictogram of a dancing shamaness holding feathers is showing their importance in Dao thought and understanding. This is central to the DDJ and I feel is one of Dawei's main themes that he asked me to name. We now have two; self and female. Today women across the world are abused by men, sometimes I feel ashamed to be a man to see how badly many men and religion treat our women-folk.

If I may interject here, being someone who has made it rain when needed, it is not I who has control of the weather, it has control of itself despite me. If a change is needed then only by permission of the Jade Emperor can a change be made. Yu Whang Shun Ti then would respond to a request and if it is indeed needed, he would ask the various disciples to alter the weather. Immortals do not interfere with the weather or the goings on of the earth, only when they really have to. So disasters are natural, they don't interfere. Wu Wei, active non intervention.

I use the term Shaman to describe what I do, because most people have some understanding about that concept. As you say there are many terms that describe shamans, wu, fang shi etc, etc. There is no one term nowadays to describe a Dao shaman like me. There are names that mean 'spirit writer', medium, etc. and it depends on the origin of the practice. For myself, I am like the original wu, who will dance the healing invocation to heal many people at once, as well as do the fa fu and fa shui. This category is mostly like the Chinese shamans of the past. The wu character depicts a woman dancing because women were the equal of men and that Dao is a feminine practice if one wants to divide these things up. "The soft and yielding will overcome the hard and the strong" There is a parallel between hermits and shamans, there is no development from one to the other. Some sought spiritual insight by being completely alone with nature and then came down the mountains to teach and perform healing in the local village and collect some provision in return. Some stayed in the village. There is no A-B that I know of.

No I disagree, Wu Wei means to be alert and aware and to take no action if everything is taking its natural course. This has everything to do with shamanism!

Well from what I understand, 'Wu' pictorgram has always mean't the equivalent of shaman or holyman, although the term shaman was not really attached to such people until strong influences came from the drum using shamans of Siberia into northern China. The practices have changed only slightly in many many thousands of years. What I do today is not that different to my ancient shaman fore fathers and mothers 10,000 years ago. The only difference being the language drawn and used and the use of paper conductors (Fu) of the fa which they didn't have 10,000 years ago, but its essence is the same. Now Li Erh was born into a society that was completely absorbed and devoted to shamanistic practices of spirit possession and healing, of martial arts, qi gong and self cultivation. I was taught a martial art style that dated 2,000 years before Li Erh. It is obvious to me that Li Erh was influenced by the general great interest in self cultivation and spirit based practices in that time without ever asking him. Traditional practices do not have a drum, but perhaps a wooden fish, the drum as mentioned coming from Siberia. I have never used a drum and is not part of the traditional Dao practice of spirit/energy practice. Dao shamans do not travel to the spirit world as such, the spirit comes to them. In Siberian practices the drum was used to aid the shaman to journey to the spirit world. Drugs may be used to help on this visionary journey. Of course many a shaman has been mistaken by his/her own mind as unlike the Dao shaman he/she does not properly know whether the spirit has been communicated with. The modern interest in shamanism is based on this. There are many people who take up the Siberian way and then use drugs and pretend that they have journeyed to the spirit world but in reality no such thing has happened. Plastic shamans is the modern label. Journeying the soul to the spirit world is a very high practice and not easily done. I have always practiced that the Immortal comes to me then there is never a mistake.

Yes they do crazy things to demonstrate the power of the Immortals. Personally, I think this is not necessary, Its crazy enough to go into a trance and then be someone else, without walking over hot coals as well!!!! My Immortal Masters have never asked me to do these things, so I've never bothered with such things. The greatest craziness is all around us and within us... great magic beyond replication. I beleive that life is the greatest magic and is sacred. Lao Tzu's Dao has lasted 2,500 years and he never walked over hot coals!!!!

It is available for free from my web site..... read it, Lao Tzu says it far better than I can!!!!!

Well I'm not about to reveal the secrets of enlightenment on a Taoist forum!!!!!

Yes, when I mean clever I don't mean like one has a degree, I mean that one has studied nature and the nature of spirituality, which actually means 'unlearning'. Yes life is a teacher in lots of ways but we perceive many things very differently even if we have the same experience. But enlightenment is the same experience for everyone, because whoever goes down this path must achieve certain levels and understandings that are almost beyond words. The teacher does not use words, but teaches you how to achieve the state and true realization if you are the right person and ready to go there. Immortality is the next stage. Everything is written in the DDJ that I have transmitted, it is all there.

Well look in my masters version of the DDJ, it is all written in there a complete, and I mean a complete treatise for enlightenment!!!

I see my masters edition of this stanza has a lot in it. I would have discussed this more under the 'shamanistic' thread. The last two paragraphs say it all!

I don't think this person is enlightened!!! It is only a very clever and very spiritually evolved person who can become enlightened without the help of someone else who is already enlightened like an Immortal. Only very few people in the history of the world have achieved this state without being led to it. It is not just a mental state, it involves a physical understanding.

The 'gateway' can mean many things: a simple explanation is the change in perception of the world around, achieved by self cultivation. It can also mean when a shaman has been accepted by a spirit master and then the 'gateway' to the spirit world has been opened. The shaman then lives in two worlds; those that are mortal and those that are just energy.

Nice one! no problem! At some time I may try and put on some footage of me performing the 'flowing Hand' art and some Monkey Gods Tai Ji quan recorded some twenty years ago.

No it doesn't but generally people believe that it means this. There are many ways of 'fa' touching and non touching. The greater majority of 'fa' practices are non contact. A moderator is supposed to show by example, mock me at you own derision! You show yourself up as being arrogant and unable to be open, only to what you have been taught by someone else. There is many different schools of practice and thought, not just Tai ji. Remain open you may learn something, I have not derided you for your lack of understanding have I?

Tai Ji Quan people beleive the style came from Zhang Shanfeng of around the 12th century AD. He certainly invented one style at that time. But I have practiced a style that pre-dates this to before Li Erh's time. 'Pre harmony boxing, 'Tao harmony boxing', are styles that pre-date Tai Ji Quan of Zhang Shanfeng. The Tai ji Quan that I was taught is practiced like one normally practices a modern wu shu form. Slow bits, fast bits, dynamic bits and hard bits. Very aerobic, has powerful internal and external training methods with it. It is part of a whole system, which includes TCM and using this for your health and joints. The bits of training that may damage joints are immediately treated with medicine after practice. Like 'iron palm' training, different grades of medicine are used to help the body. Traditional Tai ji incorporates this because if you strike your opponent with your hand in any way, if it is not 'conditioned' you will only hurt your own hand. Whatever you do, don't say well you should be able to lightly deflect your opponents blows etc. Anyone who has been in a real fight will know that yes, one can deflect some, but will have to take some others and use hard blocking and grappling techniques, in hope to come out in one piece! My point is this; don't get hung up on Tai ji as only limited to being 'soft' and gentle and maintaining the integrity of the body, because this is not true, because to stimulate and to challenge your bodies internal mechanisms means you have to do hard exercise first of all, which 'conditions' your body to store energy and make it available to use. In my long years of practicing I have not come across anyone from the Tai Ji schools who could perform a 'fa jin' (hope I've got that right!) properly. Take out the equation a real person and put a heavy inanimate object and they are useless. If you have a powerful 'fa', whatever it is, a person or the object, it will move. Dan Docherty (practical Tai chi)in England, made a challenge for anyone to knock him down without touching him (fa jin) and he would give the person if successful many thousands of pounds. No one has done it yet that I know of, in fifteen years!! Why? I tell you why because the wrong thought has been overtaken in the vast majority of Tai ji practice. This is that the more relaxed and soft you are the better your qi will develop. That's a myth, think about it, it doesn't make sense in relation to the universe and our bodies.

Yes this is the Chinese trad. way. Fresh and cleaned is always best, but modern people who live in cities rarely have a chance to eat just picked fruit and veg etc. Many years ago I used to grow all my own food (living close to the land) and one day as all the seeds were in the earth, I extended my power to them of great intent and love. Those crops grew like nothing else and were so bountiful I couldn't cope with them all. To say that living things do not feel love is not to understand the nature of all things or their inter-connectivity that we all share.

Ah yes, my mistake, it is difficult to follow peoples meaning sometimes when they use only phonetic words. I have seen 'fa Jin' written on this site as 'fa jing'. There are so many ways of writing Chinese words in English that it can become a little confusing. I thought that the first post was using Jing meaning inherited essence and then emitting this. Really we should be using the word 'Dow' to be correct phonetically, instead of 'Tao'. Then of course there is so much difference in dialect that can complicate the matter even further! 'Fa jin' is just a broad label for many types of sending out arts and can mean many different things to many people, depending on the school of teaching.

Taijiquan is a martial art, it was firstly practiced quickly with the spirit of various animals and techniques, some relaxed, some soft, some hard and powerful. It has over the years been slowed down for various reason till its roots have been lost in 'moving meditation' and non martial techniques. If you want to learn something to compliment your meditation then this ideal how it is generally taught today. Qi means 'life force' Jing means inherited vital essence. jin means internal strength. From jing your body is nourished by the production of Qi from jing. From Qi stored in the lower dan tien, jin can be developed. 'fa jing' is a misnomer as you are sending out 'qi' which comes from 'jing'. If you deplete your qi so your jing will have to replace it. If your jing is not great so your qi will not be replaced very well. Those that do not have good jing should not 'send out' their qi very often. The store is all important.