flowing hands

You get me wrong I never have been taught scriptures only the DDJ. The highest order are way past hats and rituals and my masters are 'realized' Immortals. When I first started 36 years ago I did the things you are talking about, Qi gong 5 am in the morning, learn't thirteen different styles of kung Fu etc and did all that stuff. But the path of Li Erh Xian shi's teachings is to do with Dao Xin, (real Mao Shan), and not all that other stuff which is really quite superficial. So when I beg the Immortal master to come and teach me, it is not religion or ritual it is showing respect and practicing part of the Dao Xin practices. The Dao Xin practices are the highest level that anyone can reach and practice and eventually leads to spiritual Immortality. I have a robe, you can see me in it in my video, but I've only wore it twice. Why? Because the highest practices in Dao are beyond all of that. So when you see me practice I'm in jeans with holes in them and paint spattered t-shirts. " I wear rough clothing, but keep my treasure in my heart"

After all these years of learning from the Immortals and practicing some of the stuff your saying, this seems like going backwards. What one is taught, or even believes, is not what one would practice nor believe further down the line. When one is at one with the Dao all this is just superficial and merely words taught by others who believe and make others believe because it is tradition and making what is quite simple into complex religious practice, that misses the mark by miles. large books are written all about this stuff, complex rituals and practices are evolved out of it and so suppression and mystique is formed, like many other major religions, making what is a simple philosophy and practice into a laughing joke. I remember joining some Tao organisation and it was so absurd, they taught that you had to wear the right coloured cap at the right times of the day etc. Mankind and all other life was born of the Dao naked and so were closer to the Dao than any priest pretending to do ritual to utilize this qi and that qi etc. etc. The Immortals follow the Dao, the Dao has no mercy for anyone or anything. Religion and ritual is the beginning of loss of the Dao. People and the world are far better off following the Dao and not religions.

Shame some of what he says is misguided by tradition. When we worship and pray to the Immortals we are not praying to ourselves. We are begging the Immortals to intervene and to teach or help us. He is almost suggesting that Immortals are just symbols, symbols that we are using to utilize for self virtue, ie to self teach. The point of Dao religion is to believe in Immortals as real powerful beings that if we beg, they can come in person and teach us.

This man is a fraudulent, he has made up his own sect and self appointed himself. He is obsessed with guns and knives.

Gosh.......... the secrets of Mao Shun. 'let not the gold elixir be a common thing'

How can they? All of us are made up from both, the air we breathe is both. The only reason why we know that they exist is by the fact that many life, but not all, are divided slightly into yin and yang. We could say scientifically that electrons are divided before they make a whole. But going back to life it is more to do with the environment and continuation of the species that yin and yang seem to be different. Energy is energy and it is only tainted by the people who use it. The Dao is the same whatever, there is no better yin or yang, its all the same.

I think it is very easy to fool oneself. How do you know what is "pure" yang and what is "pure" Yin? One really can't separate them, they only exist because their counter exists. So what you have written is basically nonsense, taken from someones else nonsense and so the lies are spread by those that seek fame and confirmation from others.

Sorry Dawei Yang is talking out of the top of his head. Many things are purported by many so called masters, alot of it is made up or used to cover up what is the truth, or they just simply don't know the truth. Qi Gong might be a small part of self cultivation but the majority of what Li Erh is talking about is the self and understanding the self leading to true realization, along with self cultivation of spiritual power.

I suppose most would call me a 'religious' Dao practitioner. There is a deep misunderstanding particularly in the west of Dao philosophy and Dao practices as being two separate things. They are not. If any thing the works of Li Erh and Xhuan Shi were born out of the old practices of Shamanism. Modern Dao religion has its roots in Oriental shamanism, although it has really gone too far the other way. When one steps out, for instance, the pattern of ancient Tai Ji forms one is stepping out ancient shamanistic ritual rites, imitating animals and mythical beings and the like. Most Dao Masters were shamans, practicing mediumship, martial arts and health practices, along with traditional medicine etc.; a complete system encompassing understanding practically and philosophically, with spirit guidance and teaching. 'Religious Dao' is a way that westerners describe the practices of spiritual Dao practitioners like myself, but we do not see ourselves in the same boat as any other religion, because it is fundamentally not a religion as such, although modern peoples seem to have taken it that way.

Of course the first Buddha had to be given his ever lasting spirit life by the Jade Emperor. There is no such science that teaches how to cultivate to become an Immortal in Buddhism. Buddha never wrote down his teachings. All spiritual beings that live in the Heavens must first go before the Jade Emperor to be given their power and position. The difference is that those that follow and understand the Dao, cultivate their own power until they become 'realized'. Once in this state, matter separates from spirit, matter dies and the spirit energy is set free. Once free, ultimate power is accessible as an Immortal. Dao cultivators go through challenging and adverse lives in their path to Immortal-hood. Not an easy path and not as some think that one can just meditate for a long time a hey presto one's become enlightened

Thanks Dawei for keep putting these up

I think what Li Erh was implying is that when a sage became 'realized' or enlightened, they knew that to tell others would be the start of religion. When religion starts the Dao is lost. So he/she allows people to be uninformed and so are more likely to live a simpler life and more in keeping with the Dao.

The DDJ as it was later called is a collection or should I say a selection of the writings of li Erh. There are passages in the text that allude to self cultivation to become an Immortal etc. A lot of it though is quite straight forward and has no hidden meanings, only to those who do not have an open perspective, does the text represent some difficulties. The verses were arranged by someone other than Li Erh, so really one could mix them up and certainly enjoy them singularly.

If it is the person making a point ie Le Erh then it is HIS opinion. He is leaving you to find a greater knowledge for yourself and not just giving you all the answers. So you are basically saying that his writings are rubbish, for it is he who taught me! It is the writings of Le Erh and it is not the ramblings of some fool. So far I have seen no substantial insight from you on any of the translations being offered to give me any hint that you have any insight whatsoever. Are you knowledgeable enough to stand your ground with this opinion?

Are you saying that my transmission is rubbish?

Ah yes when describing or asinging 'Do' to a school, a teaching, or teacher a pictogram is used with it. But when we talk about 'Do' it is in the singular. When we describe the 'Do' it is singular. If we add on practices of the 'Do' then we assign other characters. We cannot say he is a 'Do' ist, or studies 'Do'ism, but we can say he is a 'Do' Shi, 'Do' Ren etc etc . When we talk about 'Do' we talk in the singular, like in the text of Le Erh. When we study we are part of the 'Do' jiao. When we are part of a school and involved in practices we are 'Do' jia. Schools of 'Do' are looked upon like families.

Just to correct you as I know you like to have things right, there is no such word as 'Daoism/Daoist'. This is an English made up word that is now accepted, but when the Chinese talk of 'Do' it is just that. It may be used with other pictograms to then describe something else, but it still remains 'Do'.

'Realisation' or enlightenment is a multi faceted process. Human realisation is very different to Immortal realisation. It is very difficult for one human to teach another the process, because it involve so much. But an Immortal can teach you and guide you to that state.

Lets go back The Dao begot one,one gave birth and then there was two.Two begot three.And so the Ten Thousand Things were formed. What is the one? The very first cell to come alive. As we know, cells can multiply, so then we have two. etc etc life begins

Duality exists because it is a part of the manifestation of the one. Duality exists and divides into the multiple manifestations of the the one which produces the bodies and energies of many states. Duality and the one are not separate things, nor are the manifestations. Seeing things in separation only leads to partial understanding. People talk about Neidan; to practice and to understand real neidan one has to be given 'power' first of all. Without the passing on of 'power' one can never realise the subtle and powerful energies one is made of and that are contained in Nature. This is why traditional shamans have a head start on most other folk, for they are given 'power' from the off. Many Daoist sects come from the old wu practices and so this power was cultivated and kept by the head master of the sect. It was then passed on to the new master to hold and cultivate. The orgiinal source of this power came from the wu and from an Immortal to the wu. If you want to learn real neidan, beg an Immortal to teach you, otherwise you are on a very difficult path.

In some respects I am responsible for starting this. I really wanted to show how different translation arrive at differing meanings and how we have lost what Le Erh really wanted us to try and understand. It brings me back to the reason why he wanted to teach me the DDJ because it really had become an old dusty, philosophical work, pondered over by academics who basically categorized it as philosophical concept that one really couldn't get ones head around. But it isn't, its a vibrant, self cultivation manual, full of life and spirit; a work that was made by a man who spent his life in self cultivation at the highest level. It is the words of a god/Immortal (and you can't get any better than that).

Hi HE When I look at the translations you have quoted I hardly recognise the verses; they seem very strange and unlike Li Erh's thoughts. One must remember that Li Erh was a great Immortal before reincarnated 2600 years ago. Already the Dao was in his heart when he was born and then he sought teachers as a young man and lived many years among the sages, shamans and hermits of Mao Shan. He then left the mountain and returned to normal life. Living his life gave him even more insight to the Dao and the way of humans. Translators who are not themselves Daoist masters interpret the text and slant it with misunderstanding. So the verse 15 Li Erh taught me is; The ancient masters (probably alluring to many of the lineage masters of the teachers he met and experienced at Mao Shan) were subtle, mysterious, profound and alert. The depth of their knowledge was unfathomable. Likened to the Dao, they were at one. Being at one all we can do is observe their appearance. He then goes on to try and describe what these masters were like in appearance. What is it like to be nourished by the great mother of all things and only that. This is a supreme state of being, a state rarely realised by many in the world. This is why it is most important that his words are written down as he wrote them and the meaning then not lost by translators who have their own take and are using a text that is corrupt.

Along with Hua Tuo Xian Shi and Chi Tien Da Shen, Li Erh Xian Shi has been one of my teachers for 34 years

Feng and English agrees with what I was taught by Li Erh

CHAPTER 80 A small village has fewer people. Within the village there are machines that can work ten to a thousand times harder than man. But they are not needed. In a small village, the people work together. They use their labour to sow and grow food. Their time is spent naturally on this occupation. They live in harmony with nature, and the Ten Thousand Things. So being in harmony, they return to the state of the uncarved block of wood; simple, honest and straightforward. The people take death seriously and so they strengthen their bodies, and do not travel great distances. They remain at one. Being at one they have no need for boats and carriages. Being simple and possessing very little, they have no need for weapons, so they don't display them. They return to craft in place of writing. Their food is plain but good, their clothes simple but strong and warm, their houses safe and secure. They are happy in their ways, for they live without interference, and too many laws. So they do not intrude upon their neighbours. They live in peace and grow old and die in harmony with nature, and the Ten Thousand Things. Different translations can obscure what Li Erh was really intending to express. Here is my transmission of this verse; so he is saying that it is 'better' for people to live simply, in that way they have no need of many things that we think are necessary today. Of course today we see the world and humans spinning out of control and out of balance with the rest of the environment and other living things. When we now have children who no longer know where milk comes from or where their KFC comes from we know things have gone beyond redemption!