RedFox

To address thaddeus' posts. My impression of rolfing comes from the Hellerwork side of the school, so may not be entirely accurate as to what everybody else is doing. However, what I saw as the weakness is while the rolfer has done some amazing (and sometimes amazingly painful!) manipulations, they still haven't taught the client how to make these corrections themselves. In time, without addressing the self-care aspect of maintaining this lengthening, the contraction still happens. I came to this after taking a weekend workshop on it, focused on upper body, and having the techniques done on me thru that time. It was excruciating, but I found my arms and shoulders had been remarkably released, and could touch them behind my back (you knw, where you grasp your fingertips together meeting up behind your shoulder blades) and do all kinds of motions far easier and further than i'd ever done. However, same as a massage, three days later I couldn't grasp my fingers anymore. I'd asked the guy about maintenance in class, and it was clear he was more about having the client return frequently. He did say he practiced yoga for himself, forgot to ask what style, but when i asked him if it negated his own need for therapy, he said it didnt. I was not able to touch my fingertips together like that for another two years. In my case, i learned how to stretch all the individual muscles of the body (the method was called active isolated stretching, but there are other ways to accomplish the same thing). Had to learn how to evaluate myself and figure out whether it was triceps, biceps, subscapularis, infraspinatus, or what other muscles might be preventing me from getting there. It wasn't just the stretching though, the real benefit seemed to be increasing awareness of everything that's going on in the body. Being involved in it. If one muscle consistently tightens up, figure out why that is and you won't have to stretch so much. My hamstrings would tighten up much quicker than other areas of my body if i took any time off my routine. struck me that having a gut meant compensations in a string of muscles, including hamstrings. i am in agreement on the lengthening in general, and the spine specifically. that's my current weakness. been working with CC/bridging to get that started, but i also realize i have been negligent on standing practice for months, which i know helps. Somebody mentioned hindu squats. one thing that's been on my mind is that i'm not going to get into very high numbers of them until I can do them even more efficiently. like, how can i relax and still do this squat without straining. so much to practice, how can anybody be bored? :-)

Have a question for someone(s) more experienced than I. Yesterday, someone began teaching me some qigong (I believe it's called wisdom qigong). Part of it involved getting down on the grass and rolling around like a log on the lawn, with arms overhead. He would've liked me to do that for several minutes the first time. I lasted *maybe* 90 seconds before I had to quit. Couldn't remember ever being so thoroughly nauseous, but somehow unable to puke. Skipped dinner and felt like total garbage until the next morning, and I still feel a little off. He tells me that you build up to a half hour of this kind of rolling but that the results are worth it. All I could tell, benefit-wise, was that it seemed to shake loose a fair amount of trapped gas in the intestines, I didn't feel gassy beforehand. I can imagine that the innards would get a bit of a massage from the rolling around. But I wanted to ask if anyone else had any experience with spinning around like this, or perhaps standing up doing dervish-type movements, and had any results they could share, or recommendations either way. I'm intrigued about it, but I've not to my recollection done any qigong where i'd felt like death warmed over, either.

Thanks Freeform and Yoda, I do appreciate the feedback. I've decided for other reasons to not to do any mre ground rolling for the time being, but I have played around a little bit with the standing & spinning (Just remembered that Furey had that as one of his CC exercises, and I avoided it for the same reason) I wss able to do that for about 10 spins before I let myself hit the ground and waited for the room to stop spinning. but... it didn't make me sick as it normally would, and i kinda felt like a little kid enjoying it, even giggling! it occurred to me that i had a rather significantly unpleasant experience with regards to being spun around involuntarily when i was a kid. maybe there's still something buried in there over that incident.

Believe I've heard Michael Winn call it the most important point as well. Have yet to do much work with it though (there's never a shortage of practices)

I agree with whoever wrote about working on stretching/flexibility. although I would stretch for a while first, then work on strengthening. If I was having back pain from sitting in a chair or car, I would stretch the psoas muscle first. If its tight, it can pull hard on the lumbar spine all by itself. After that, I would check the flexibility of my quadriceps, gluteus maximus, piriformis, and hamstrings. If your not sure what movements those muscles make (or how to stretch them) a decent book is the Wharton's Stretch Book by Jim & Phil Wharton. Good for beginners, but what I like is it has diagrams of what limited, normal, and above normal range of motion is for a wide variety of muscles. I would ultimately learn how to stretch muscles that aren't at normal/average range of motion. if they don't already hurt, they're good indicators of what could cause problems down the road. Easier to work those out before the pain shows up. Probably preaching to the choir (sorry if so) but, if possible, treat this pain as a communication from the body, as feedback, rather than an obstacle to overcome or quell. Body uses pain to get ur attention. These are great learning times if you're open to it.

Very interesting... this addresses something I've been chewing on for a while. I learned Winn's version of Fusion I, and in practicing on my own (I worked with the tapes first), this practice sounds pretty darn close to how Fusion had evolvedfor me. Got lots of insight and felt like I was getting good progress when I started allowing feelings to turn into 'characters' i could interact with. I let it go, though, when I became concerned about it becoming too much like watching internal movies about transformation, rather than being transformative. may be time to revisit that and see if anything's changed. Thanks for posting this.

Well, after hearing many of you mention it enough, and developing a desire for exercises anywhere I happen to be, I finally got curious enough and checked out for myself what a Hindu Squat was. I mean, if it's good enough for Master Yoda.. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler19.htm It looks easy enough, until you get out of your chair and do more than a few in a row. At just 25 reps I stopped and took measure. In addition to the aerobic workout, my quads felt like they had done quite a bit more work than was obvious. I think this one's gonna stay in my program for a while to see what happens. Decided to order Furey's Combat Conditioning book as well.

Well, it's been a couple months now, thought I'd post an update on the experiment. I've branched out slightly with other CC exercises, but the hindu squat remains my focus. I've gotten 200 of them twice now, which is pretty cool. The funny thing ws, I got stuck at 130 for a long time. I'd hit a wall at about 75, power thru that, then get up to 120-130 and just lose all steam. I was still stuck there at Dao Mountain when I met someone who'd met a guy who holds a bunch of Guiness World records, who'd told him, essentially, that physically you're only gonna go so far anyway; after that, it's whatever version of "letting go and letting God" that you subscribe to. Maybe I have a mental block about it, I figured, so the next morning I got up believing I could do 200, and did. Couldn't walk much for a while afterwards, and developed some quad tightness and some very loud knee popping of the patella that I had to stretch out for a couple days later. But it did work. I've decided to add increments only when I've stabilized for a week at a given number of reps, though. I'd really prefer my tendons and joints be able to keep up with my mind! Physically I feel great for doing it. Lugging things around is a lot easier. My thighs have trimmed up quite a bit, rather than bulked up as they always do when I use weights. And it's really cool when I stop driving at rest areas and practice in the grass. There are apparently more people doing this than I would've guessed, I get a lot more honks, waves, and thumbs up than I would've expected. Quick question - does anybody have any experience with his other books/exercises?

Holy crap, did you see that bridge?!?!?! That's amazing!

Ack! Are you serious, they taught them to flick the wood in a school? Maybe it's different in Canada, but in the northeast US at least, that might just earn somebody a lawsuit. Much better to handle it the way your wife did, or even just letting go of the client for a couple minutes and give things a chance to calm down. The erection doesn't always have to do with the male/female thing. It doesn't happen in my practice too often, but it has, and yeah, like others have said you can tell pretty quick what's going on. Depends on what's pent up inside the client, where the therapist is working, and often, how lightly & slowly. A light effluerage up the inner thigh, or the chest/abs (especially long strokes across the chest that include the nipple) can do it. If it's too sensual, the easiest thing to do, beyond a pause, is firm up the pressure a little and move off the chest/abs.

I used to do trigger point therapy in my sessions, but I don't anymore. Things would always feel great for 2-3 days but they always come back if you don't change the underlying patterns. If you can get the muscle causing the problem (not the one in pain) to relax and the posture to shift to one that is more in line with gravity, the trigger points stop forming. For instance, chronic trigger points in the upper back/traps are usually caused by tight pectoral muscles, which pull the shoulders forward. The trigger points form in the back, but it's more like the back muscles are screaming for help, they are basically overpowered by the pecs in most individuals. (Sometimes I give back strengthening exercises too but usually after we stretch) Shaking qigong should help a lot with that, but I also teach my clients active isolated stretching (www.stretching-usa.com for books/video, or check out Jim & Phil Warton's Stretch book on Amazon, it's the same stuff). Low back stuff can be complicated, but as you're stretching, you might want to pay attention to psoas, quadriceps, hamstrings, and piriformis, as well as the low back/quadratus lumborum muscles. Once you get normal flexibility there, that'll start the process of getting your hips back to balance, and if it doesn't solve the problem outright, at least you'll have a better chance of isolating the next layer.

Well, after two weeks, I'd have to say I'm still impressed with this exercise. After the initial soreness wore off, I went a little gung ho and started doing 200-300/day in sets of 25/50. That was a bit too much too soon, because I ended up with some very tight quad tendons that hurt at the knee and were tough to stretch back out. So I started doing just one or two sets a day. I have noticed that to my surprise it seems to be developing the medial and lateral muscles (groin/outer quads/IT Band) as well. I wasn't sure why at first, because you're not abducting or adducting, but my guess is from my occasional wavering that those muscles are quite engaged in maintaining balance. Just got back from a long road trip and had a couple interesting experiences with them. On the way out, after a few hrs I stopped at a gas station in Jersey and got out to pump off a few rounds to get the blood flowing again. Out in the dark I hear "Oh, that is very good exercise. Hard on the knees though." When I turn around, i see the gas station attendant is an Indian (hindu!) My knees still hurt at that point but I knew I'd overdone it. Today on the drive back, I got out at a rest stop and did 75 in a row. I probably could've done a couple more but that was 12 more than I had last maxed out at, so I figured, why push it. I was all happy when I popped off the last one, and looking straight ahead I caught the eyes of a trucker walking by. I intended to walk off the tightness that usually ensues, but as soon as I lifted my leg to take a step, the other one gave out and I fell right back down into a crouch. So much for looking cool in that moment! Was a good laugh! Furey's book arrived in the mail today, so I havea pretty good idea what tomorrow's practice will be.

Sorry - I left out the word "he" in a key sentence. That was Winn's description of the experience. I have heard the same thing, but I was never up there to experience it.

I've wondered about that from time to time, is part of what I'm digesting in the fusion practices radiation that I've absorbed, and if I oughtta do those practices in the space around my ears to help negate potential cell phone radiation damage. I did hear Michael Winn talk about doing rooting practice in a class once. Did it from the top floor (or the roof) of the WTC building in NYC a while back. Don't remember his exact words, but i got the impression that it was possible, but it was a little rough and took some time to adapt to it.

I agree... this happened to me with a prolonged standing-only practice. However at the time I didn't think I was having emotional challenges. I was doing exactly what I wanted to be doing in my life. The power from the practice felt wonderful at first, but what it did after several months was, amp up everything below the surface and have the effect of sticking a bunch of my (now screaming) personal demons right in my face! Woohoo! But having gone through it, i'd have to say that even though it wasn't the most fun time in the world having my negative emotions amplified like that, and be COMPLETELY unprepared for the experience, and feel compelled to quit and (haha! try to) rebury them... i do not classify that experiment as a negative experience. I'm quite grateful it happened! But I can see why the warning... without tools to prepare you for what could happen, it can be unsettling.

Ah, I was wondering if somebody put an animated gif/video out there. Thanks! Its hard to say exactly for sure, but it looks to be an even pace he's keeping, not launching up. I looked up the Mahler article, looks like the one I found above on bodybuilding.com is the same. (That's the one that used the phrase 'explode up' which I was trying to figure out) I guess these details only matter because I'm torn at the moment between doing what Pavel describes in his exercises (tighten up all the muscles) which is what I always do when I train with weights, and where my qigong practice & barefoot running seems to be leading me, which is moving with ease and grace, and as little muscle tension as humanly possible.

Hey Yoda, The webpage I found said to 'explode up' from the squat position. How intensely do you do that? I'm trying to figure out whether that basically means "jump up" or "just don't come up slow" Also, are the arms shooting out in front for balance, and staying basically relaxed, or do you hold them tense the whole time, and pull hard like you're really rowing a boat? Thanks! RedFox

Dunno man. I would but there's somebody on this list that, every so often, writes about how much fun he's not having in the army. That's pretty good. Do the heels have to stay on the ground or do they lift up like the hindu squat?

I just saw it a few hours ago so I'm still kinda digesting it, btu i have to agree... It certainly was quite stunning in that regard.

I am uncertain whether it's appropriate to reply. Mostly because there aren't any words to bring you any closer to peace. Yet I truly admire your ability to feel and express these feelings, and I have faith that you will arrive at the solution soon. I've had similar life events growing up isolated and experienced love as a very conditional thing (and I'd bet that just about everybody on this board has) Although they caused me a lot of anguish for a long time, I can see today that those experiences actually led me to a great deal of peace... to the understanding that I am responsible for allowing unconditional love to flow from within me, instead of expecting it to come from somewhere, or someone, out there. I might not have experienced that so clearly if my upbringing had taken some form that I had imagined as being 'perfect.' I see those times as a tremendous gift now, and I love and respect and am grateful to the players that acted upon my life stage to a degree I never would have thought possible. Perhaps the Tao will lead you to that experience, maybe you'll have another, who knows? Just trust that it'll be perfect for you, in its own perfect timing. As for the guilt about whether you're practicing or not, when I'm not motivated to spend 4-6 hours a day cultivating, I take heart in the notion that I'm practicing the application what I've learned in meditation in the physical world. Also, we're meditating and cultivating to accelerate our growth and evolution. Sometimes, intense growth requires rest, so we can fully integrate the growth - like you're telling the universe "hold on, I can't quite take on anything new just now!"

Same movie... Frodo I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened. Gandalf So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.

as far as I know, that particular idea is not one of Buddha's...

I didn't see a forum for barefoot running on the site, but I ended up writing the guy who wrote the article you posted, and he's been very helpful also. He and a few others just ran the Boston marathon barefoot! I'd be happy to run a 5k without pain. As I understand the Tracker school perspective on it, you actually receive more information - or maybe, process more of the information you are getting - from your feet and the surrounding environment when you're walking that way, vs. running. You also have the option while walking whether or not to commit your weight to that lead foot, in case there is something sharp or noisy you're about to step on. Undeniably, though, both are very meditative ways to move. I am concerned, though... if I get really hooked on this, I'm going to have to move to a warmer state!

I'm finding something similar emerging in my practice as well. I've always failed when it came to using willpower to stop my self-destructive habits. Something that stuck in my head that Dan Millman wrote in a book once, "Don't try to manage the addiction, clear the obstruction." For years and years, this quote never made any sense to me. Once I got to a place where I could do emotional work practices which I avoided like the plague for years, like healing sounds, and eventually, fusion one, I found myself in a rather strange place. Instead of doing everything I could to resist inhaling my junk food and getting all bent about it later, I found myself desiring to eat less, and a desire to eat slower, and a desire to wait until I was hungry. When I feel the desire to eat ravenously or have a drink, I actually feel okay to do it with gusto, and without guilt, and in a way, celebrate the desire. If I do that, the next few meals are easy to take lightly or flat out skip, until the belly asks for something else. If I catch myself doing it unconsciously, that's something to work on in fusion practice. Gets me pondering the idea that maybe what we call 'bad habits' might not be bad at all. They may be one way our shen communicate with us. To bring deep issues up to the surface, to act out so they can be brought to completion in the physical world. If we can do it energetically without acting out and possibly damaging the body in the process (or not, if the acupuncturist is right), so much the better, but if not, the habit can still serve to draw our attention to it and drive us to make changes without our being totally conscious of the process.

Since Yoda posted this, I've been running barefoot a little bit each day. Mostly on the grass in the yard, but one or twice heading down the longer asphalt driveway. I've been trying to take it easy and build up tolerance little by little. However, running in circles around a small yard, even mixing it up, kinda makes me feel like a hamster. And, it's still possible to run shoeless without good form in the grass. So I decided not to stop at the driveway today and see what the road felt like, and show my feet some new scenery. I paced somewhere between a jog and a run, and I was expecting pain in the right knee and hip within the usual half mile, but it never showed up. Woohoo! I caught myself leaning forward a bit, and I did feel the heel strike first a couple times so I've still got plenty of work to do. The big thing I noticed was a brief stretch (not painful, just uncomfortable) in both calves/achilles tendons when the heel did touch down. Shoes seem to prevent that last little bit of range of motion from happening so there's something to get used to. I also found it considerably easier to breathe in the upright posture that barefoot running demands, and am experiencing no back discomfort. You know, I don't even feel my body demanding a prolonged stretching session, which I have had to do before and after any kind of running. I can feel where I could use some stretching in the hamstrings but I felt that way before the run too. The only downside to the run is that I did too much too soon. I hadn't spent much time on the asphalt barefoot before now, so my feet feel rather tender at the moment. They don't look bad at all, but the balls are tender, and I can feel small blisters under the 4th digit on the ball of each foot. I'd much rather have that, though, than my knee telling me not to run at all for two weeks. I can see how my range of motion in the feet and toes has noticeably improved after only a week. That's significant to me, because I've been watching it pretty closely and working on that since last fall, when a teacher demonstrated I had very little ability to rotate at the ankles or the balls of the feet compared to an athlete. Stretching never seemed to help beyond a small degree, however. I believe this is because I spent 99.9% of my day with shoes on and .1% of my day stretching and using those muscles, so the feet never got used to the pattern change I wanted to make. Have to say I'm very impressed with this experiment so far.