Chang

wiosna inbound winter fading in the sun life springs eternal

The heart of the Brexit argument is simplicity itself. Does the U.K. remain part of what is fast becoming an increasingly autocratic Super State or do we strive to maintain our own sovereignty and identity? Let me put the question in another way. Do we consider ourselves children who cannot be trusted to think and act for ourselves and need Nanny to think and act for us or are we grown up and able to think and act for ourselves? Remain campaigners would brand these questions as emotive and not relevant to the argument but the reality of the situation is that this is the nitty gritty of the whole affair. A German acquaintance of mine has sent an e-mail to all of those in his address book who will be eligible to vote on Thursday. He states that his heartfelt hope is that we will vote for a Europe without borders and work towards a world without borders. If that is what you desire then you should most certainly vote to remain within the E.U. but please be mindful of the old Chinese curse “may you get all that you wish for.”

You never disappoint Apech. This article is typical Guardian fodder and its arguments have more holes than a Swiss Cheese. Leaving the E.U. will not make us either more liked or disliked in Europe or indeed the world and if the U.K. leaving the E.U. will hasten its disintegration then it must be pretty fragile to start with. As regards "historical facts" we can all quote "facts" to support our own arguments.

The company of others acts as a mirror in which one may reflect upon oneself.

It was inevitable that the Remainiac’s would make use of this crime to further their own ends. Jo Cox represented all that was Left Wing, Liberal and Internationalist and the fact that she appears to have been assassinated by a right wing maniac (who continues to advertise his beliefs in court) has given the Remain Camp an unrivalled opportunity to obtain the sympathy vote in the eleventh hour. It will only have a minor effect when it comes to polling day but with things as close run as they appear to be that may be all it takes. I have stated many times in this forum that I find it very difficult to believe in conspiracy theories but I have little doubt that the murder of Jo Cox is going to make a very good one. It would also appear that history does indeed repeat itself:- Swedish politician’s death 13 years ago mirrors murder of UK lawmaker The fatal attack on a pro-European British lawmaker just a week ahead of the key Brexit referendum vote has shaken politicians and voters across the U.K. While this is the first time in nearly a quarter of a century that a U.K. politician has been murdered, the case bears startling similarities to the assassination 13 years ago in Sweden of pro-EU Anna Lindh. Days before Sweden would vote on whether to join the euro in 2003, a 46-year-old lead campaigner for Sweden's to adopt the euro was stabbed while shopping in a Stockholm department store. She had been shopping for clothes for a euro zone debate scheduled that evening. The next day, on September 11, Social Democratic foreign minister Lindh died from her injuries. Both sides of the Swedish political campaign suspended their activities following the news, with TV ads campaigns cancelled and billboard and print media ads withdrawn. On the following Sunday, Swedes rejected proposals to adopt the common currency so in the Swedish case the murder of a Pro E.U. Politician did not sway the vote towards closer ties.

I have just listened to the News and now have to admit to a fear that you are right Karl. One Interviewee, giving a eulogy praising Jo Cox, was rambling on that the population must now stand united against the forces of hatred and "separatism" in memory of Jo who spent her life campaigning against these evils.

A dreadful crime has been committed a man is in custody and a Police investigation is under way. Unfortunately the media wish to investigate the matter and broadcast/publish their findings immediately. This is unfortunate so far as our justice system is concerned as the accused stands to be tried and convicted long before he appears in a court of law. I must admit that the media are making great play of the allegation that the attacker shouted "Britain First" during the assault though this allegation appears to come from only one bystander and may or may not be true. The murder will possibly obain a few sympathy votes for the remainiacs but I would hope that they do not attempt to gain political advantage from what is a savage crime. I do however agree with Karl that the Remainiacs campaign is growing ever more hysterical and ludicrous. I had thought that they had reached rock bottom with Eddie Izzard and Bob Geldof and can but hope that they do not prove me wrong.

Cry 'Havoc', and let slip the dogs of war. The "in" camp have really gone to work shooting themselves in the backside - doubtless in an effort to blow their brain out. Geldof ( an irishman with a French wife) has been a great boost to Brexit with his idiotic antics on the Thames. The "In" Brigade really appear to be losing the plot now and their threats are being seen as ridiculous. Lets hope for lots more of the same.

This is true but we have only to look at Socialist track records as regards economic stability and growth to see that Spain would have faired no better under Left Wing rule. So far as the civil war is concerned the Left had no chance of winning power. Have you ever read Orwells "Homage to Catalonia"? What a damned shower.

Clear skies are indeed a jolly good thing. Like or loathe him there is little doubt that Franco did that which he considered was his duty. Had the Socialist factions been less useless then things may have turned out differently.

Too many socialists getting pictured in this thread. Pity we can't dig these two horrible old pro E.U. Tories up and get them involved in the debate. Mac was an even bigger disgrace then Heath, being prone to bursting into tears in front of De Gaulle because he would not let us into the Common Market. On the other hand when Ted Heath was Prime Minister it was a standing joke in Europe that Britain was the only country with two Queens. Even the humourless Germans had a laugh at that one.

You really are grasping at straws now Apech. However in these more liberal times lunatics and idiots are not barred from voting so even Gordon Brown may sway such ditherers. Thank you for posting this as we see too little of this horrible old socialist nowadays.

Another point of interest is that if you do an internet search on Kalergi almost all references are from right wing and nationalist sites who are obviously critical of his philosophy. For the Left Wing Liberals and their ilk it is a difficult situation for they cannot openly state that they agree with a move towards a completely homogenised population brought about by mass immigration. At least they cannot do this whilst democracy still holds sway but with the E.U.'s increase in non democratic power......................

Kalergi was certainly a shadowy figure, unknown to public at large but stalking the corridors of power and spreading his influence amongst the so called elite. It is always an error to put two and two together and come up with the figure five but Kalergi and the intent of the European superstate appear to fit like hand and glove. I am still waiting for Apech to tell me that my fears are unfounded and that there is really nothing to worry about.

Never mind WTF! Kalergi existed, his plan is well documented and Europe appears to be under a sustained invasion of Middle Eastern and African immigrants. Here is some more info on Kalergi. I remain amazed that this "well dodgy" figure is not spoken of more as regards the European Superstate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_von_Coudenhove-Kalergi

I was not familiar the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan and tend towards skepticism as regards conspiracy theories. This however rings a little too true for my liking. I feel that I really need Apech to tell me that it is all rubbish and that I have nothing to worry about. Please note the reference to Angela Merkel. This article was penned in 2013 before she opened Europe's doors to the Muslim masses. The Coudenhove-Kalergi plan – The genocide of the Peoples of Europe Mass immigration is a phenomenon, the causes of which are still cleverly concealed by the system, and the multicultural propaganda is trying to falsely portray it as inevitable. With this article we intend to prove once and for all, that this is not a spontaneous phenomenon. What they want to present as an inevitable outcome of modern life, is actually a plan conceived around a table and prepared for decades, to completely destroy the face of the continent. The Pan-Europe Few people know that one of the main initiators of the process of European integration, was also the man who designed the genocide plan of the Peoples of Europe. It is a dark person, whose existence is unknown to the masses, but the elite considers him as the founder of the European Union. His name is Richard Coudenhove Kalergi. His father was an Austrian diplomat named Heinrich von Coudenhove-Kalergi (with connections to the Byzantine family of the Kallergis) and his mother the Japanese Mitsu Aoyama. Kalergi, thanks to his close contacts with all European aristocrats and politicians, due to the relationships of his nobleman-diplomat father, and by moving behind the scenes, away from the glare of publicity, he managed to attract the most important heads of state to his plan , making them supporters and collaborators for the “project of European integration”. In 1922 he founded the “Pan-European” movement in Vienna, which aimed to create a New World Order, based on a federation of nations led by the United States. European integration would be the first step in creating a world government. Among the first supporters, including Czech politicians Tomáš Masaryk and Edvard Beneš and the banker Max Warburg, who invested the first 60,000 marks. The Austrian Chancellor Ignaz Seipel and the next president of Austria, Karl Renner, took the responsibility for leading the “Pan-European” movement. Later, French politicians, such as Léon Bloum, Aristide Briand, Alcide De Gasperi, etc will offer their help. With the rise of Fascism in Europe, the project was abandoned and the “Pan-European” movement was forced to dissolve, but after the Second World War, Kalergi, thanks to frantic and tireless activity and the support of Winston Churchill, the Jewish Masonic Lodge B’nai B’rith and major newspapers like the New York Times, the plan manages to be accepted by the United States Government. The CIA later undertakes the completion of the project. The essence of the Kalergi plan In his book «Praktischer Idealismus», Kalergi indicates that the residents of the future “United States of Europe” will not be the People of the Old Continent, but a kind of sub-humans, products of miscegenation. He clearly states that the peoples of Europe should interbreed with Asians and colored races, thus creating a multinational flock with no quality and easily controlled by the ruling elite. Kalergi proclaims the abolition of the right of self-determination and then the elimination of nations with the use of ethnic separatist movements and mass migration. In order for Europe to be controlled by an elite, he wants to turn people into one homogeneous mixed breed of Blacks, Whites and Asians. Who is is this elite however? Kalergi is particularly illuminating on this: The man of the future will be of mixed race. The races and classes of today will gradually disappear due to the elimination of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-negroid race of the future, similar in appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the diversity of peoples and the diversity of individuals. Instead of destroying European Judaism, Europe, against her will, refined and educated this people, driving them to their future status as a leading nation through this artificial evolutionary process. It’s not surprising that the people that escaped from the Ghetto-Prison, became the spiritual nobility of Europe. Thus, the compassionate care given by Europe created a new breed of aristocrats. This happened when the European feudal aristocracy crashed because of the emancipation of the Jews [due to the actions taken by the French Revolution] Although no textbook mentions Kalergi, his ideas are the guiding principles of the European Union. The belief that the peoples of Europe should be mixed with Africans and Asians, to destroy our identity and create a single mestizo race, is the basis of all community policies that aim to protect minorities. Not for humanitarian reasons, but because of the directives issued by the ruthless Regime that machinates the greatest genocide in history. The Coudenhove-Kalergi European Prize is awarded every two years to Europeans who have excelled in promoting this criminal plan. Among those awarded with such a prize are Angela Merkel and Herman Van Rompuy. The incitement to genocide, is also the basis of the constant appeals of the United Nations, that demands we accept millions of immigrants to help with the low birth rates of the EU. According to a report published on January 2000 in «Population division» Review of the United Nations in New York, under the title “Immigration replacement: A solution to declining and aging population,” Europe will need by 2025 159,000,000 migrants. One could wonder how there can be such accuracy on the estimates of immigration, although it was not a premeditated plan. It is certain that the low birth rate could easily be reversed with appropriate measures to support families. It is just as clear that it is the contribution of foreign genes do not protect our genetic heritage, but that it enables their disappearance. The sole purpose of these measures is to completely distort our people, to turn them into a group of people without national, historical and cultural cohesion. In short, the policies of the Kalergi plan was and still is, the basis of official government policies aimed at genocide of the Peoples of Europe, through mass immigration. G. Brock Chisholm, former director of the World Health Organization (OMS), proves that he has learned the lesson of Kalergi well when he says: “What people in all places have to do is to limit of birthrates and promote mixed marriages (between different races), this aims to create a single race in a world which will be directed by a central authority. ” Conclusions If we look around us, the Kalergi plan seems to be fully realized. We face Europe’s fusion with the Third World. The plague of interracial marriage produces each year thousands of young people of mixed race: “The children of Kalergi». Under the dual pressures of misinformation and humanitarian stupefaction, promoted by the MSM, the Europeans are being taught to renounce their origin, to renounce their national identity. The servants of globalization are trying to convince us that to deny our identity, is a progressive and humanitarian act, that “racism” is wrong, because they want us all to be blind consumers. It is necessary, now more than ever, to counter the lies of the System, to awaken the revolutionary spirit Europeans. Every one must see this truth, that European Integration amounts to genocide. We have no other option, the alternative is national suicide. Translator’s note: Although the reasons due to which Kalergi made the choices he made are of no particular interest to us, we will try to answer a question that will surely our readers have already asked: Why a European aristocrat with Flemish, Polish, Greek-Byzantine roots and even with some samurai blood in his veins (from his mother) was such body plans and organ in the hands of dark forces? The reasons, in our opinion, are multiple, idiosyncratic, psychological and … women. We therefore observe a personality with strong snobbish attitudes, arrogance, and, allow me the term, “degenerate elitism.” Also, the fact that his mother was Asian, perhaps created internal conflicts and frustrations, something that can happen to people with such temperament. But the most decisive factor must have been the “proper teenager”, which incidentally of course, was beside him, and became his first woman (at age 13): The Jewess Ida Roland, who would later become a famous actress. EUROPEAN COUNCIL The award of the Coudenhove-Kalergi Prize to President Van Rompuy On November 16th 2012, the President of the European Council, Herman Van Rompuy, was awarded the Coudenhove-Kalergi Prize, during a special conference in Vienna, to celebrate 90 years of pan-European movement. The prize is awarded every two years to leading personalities for their outstanding contribution to the process of European integration. A decisive factor that helped him win the prize was the balanced way in which President Van Rompuy executed his duties in the new position of President of the European Council, which was established by the Treaty of Lisbon. He handled this particularly sensitive leading and coordinating role with a spirit of determination and reconciliation, while emphasis was also given to his skilful arbitration on European affairs and unfailing commitment to European moral values. During his speech, Mr Van Rompuy described the unification of Europe as a peace project. This idea, which was also the objective of the work of Coudenhove-Kalergi, after 90 years is still important. The award bears the name of Count Richard Nicolaus von Coudenhove-Kalergi (1894-1972), philosopher, diplomat, publisher and founder of the Pan-European Movement (1923). Coudenhove-Kalergi was the pioneer of European integration and popularized the idea of a federal Europe with his work. Among the winners of the award, the Federal Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel (2010) and the President of Latvia Vaira Vike-Freiberga (2006), are included.

With regard to the E.U think not of what is but of what will be. No one is suggesting that the European Superstate and those shadowy figures who mastermingd it have as yet achieved their aims. Whilst i will critisize them on most thing i will not offer any criticism as regards their persistance. Those who want out are angry at what the E.U has already done. They are also fearful of what lies in store.

This is just tripe Apech and what’s more you know it. You may belittle Gove but I could equally belittle Dodgy Dave Cameron, the be-whiskered half-wit who leads the Labour Party or God help us Harriet "Women’s Rights" Harman. You may also demand a post Brexit economic plan but I could demand some plan from the E.U. which will not result in economic disaster. The E.U. should be congratulated for their consistency in showing continued incompetence in matters both political and economic. God help us when the E.U. Army becomes a reality. So before you demand other than tripe from the Brexit Brigade perhaps you should demand it from those who share your own entrenched position. To be fair we are unlikely to hear of the grand vision of the E.U. spoken of openly for they prefer to proceed by stealth and disassembly.

I have to agree wholeheartedly and am amazed that there are still so many ditherers who apparently remain undecided on which way to vote. One has to wonder what they have been doing all these years as the E.U. has worked it wonders. It can only be a case of having eyes they see not and ears they hear not.

Religious fanaticism will pervade all strata’s of society and it is foolish to think otherwise. I believe that it was Dodgy Dave Cameron who stated on a couple of occasions that Mr Khan at the corner shop should not be associated with Jihadi’s but the fact is that good old Mr Khan is as likely to be involved in Islamic terrorism as any other Muslim.

1,2,3,4,5... once i caught a fish alive pass the beurre blanc

I'm blessed with grace like a flower in the breeze gazing at the sky

garb in Hawaii grass skirt and flowers in hair with bare feet stamping

Karl has already answered this loaded question very well but it is worthy of note that you should even ask such a thing. Immigration into Europe by massive numbers of Muslims is an issue which must be taken seriously and addressed. The E.U. with Uberfrua Merkal in the vanguard has welcomed the illegal immigration of Muslims with open arms. Unfortunately as members of "Federal Europe" she requires that we all share in this burden. If this matter does not concern you yet it should. If this matter does not concern you yet it will!

Time for Objectivism and rational self interest. I do like the idea of fools pushing us towards a cliff edge. The real tragedy is that they are blissfully unaware that there is even a cliff edge there for us all to fall off.