skydog

afraid to examine their own beliefs ey? poor guy

Also on a less related note its an amazing form of cultivation in my opinion I love it. Abstract art= Expressing yourself, releasing repression, intuition, colours are healing. Realistic art= Training your perception to incredible levels, most artists see the world very differently. Also its not like one of these "practices" that you do to avoid samsara or get somewhere or achieve something its fun. Im sure most people here know this already

Imo taking peyote or Iboga is not like meditation or qigong at all. It offers a peak experience or glimpse or healing etc. What you can learn in one night can equate to years of normal practice, of course thats one usage no need to go crazy.

Skillz is something everyone has and can develop, I find it a nice neutral way to express yourself. Im not saying I was one of these people you are reffering to or giving you advice just saying if you want it, its not too hard to develop especially with lots of consciousness or energy your skills grow quite quickly. peace

I edited but I am wondering how to put this across in the most positive way he said something about a teacher I and many cultivators on this forum admire "he is working with negative energies because his heart is impure" Guys please learn from this "sufi wisdom" really this is the result.

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Sir, bahahahahahaha moron Regards

So tell me what was going through your mind last night when you watched gay porn, did you wonder how hypocritical it was that you bash on them or did that add to the sexual tension?

Past rulers of countries decide which religion to indoctrinate their people with based on whether or not the king would receive a better off or wife.

Also I do not care if I am a man or not, that is in my opinion stupid thinking, I respect many children more than men, childishness, playfulness, curiosity open mindedness are positive traits to be admired. Overly valuing conceptual ideas of what masculinity is is again a pure form of ignorance which quite clearly you have cultivated in your drumming lessons. I respect many women more than men, I respect many transexuals, gays, animals, plants etc more than men, If you believe in reincarnation everyone was probably a woman, different animal of different ages in past lifetimes. All this talk of manliness is pure bullshit. Ask yourself who is coming with lucid thoughts and who is promoting " It was written in the book but dont you dare insult it"

You say you do not hate anyone on the contrary you have written many aggressive, insulting things calling people demonic and demonising them as negative for example gary j clyman and dont make me turh the whole forum on you by mentioning another name. (actually this I will not do) You also say you dont get angry again this is purely and simply a lie, You are completely run on your "nafs" because you repress and ignore them, like ignorance it is a major contribution to evil in this world.

Ignorance is the most unmanly, uncourageous thing there is you have proved your lack of manliness, go and have a wank on your holy books and gay bears

Im not a boy Im a man, your a fat overweight nutcase that needs mental treatment

heroine and cocaine is not the same thing as peyote, ayuascha or iboga, That is like comparing medicine with poison. Such things as peyote are treated as a living god in native american traditions and I agree having used one. Please tell me if cocaine, heroine addicts use peyote to completely rid their cure from one usage how is this in anyway bad? If people who use peyote can see the afterlife and higher world and totally transform many parts of their life, how is this bad? I agree with dorian black. Ignorance is the evil. Blindness. Refusal to challenge "beliefs, ideas, concepts" You clearly have a lot ignorance for example, in many ways you actually act like a nutcase. Please feel free to read and then write ignored. Maybe these words will sink into you.

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24623-ripped-dan-tien/

yh man, well good day to you, I think I will choose to invest my energy more appropriately and ignore negativity and engaging in garbage. Ah relax, off to get some cookies (aka shit) ahaha peace

I am also curious as to whatever the truth may be, I am also willing to be wrong, (unlike some people) I just find it neccessary to defend powerful life changing positive things (as I believe them to be) against attack from people who say homophobia is acceptable because of the harm it does in the astral plane or eating meat is right because it says so in my holy book or other examples which I wont go into here, as I believe in showing some mercy to recep

White wolf I am through discussing this with you, It seems you will only listen to the advice of someone who insults others, or is more sure of themselves, spells correctly, doesnt express emotions etc. Unfortunately I have not developed my communication well enough

oh and that is not the only country in the world with their main religion as shamanism. Shamanism is not even a religion. There are plenty of african countries with their main religion as shamanism. And a country is only a piece of land legally accepted as a border or country by other pieces of land with people delusionally claiming ownership. Oh and by the way my last post came from turkey too.

Taoists have used psychadelics in the past, as have buddhists and Indians. Sufi mystics also used hasheesh. Siberian Shamans use mushrooms. Druids and celts ingested plants. Many countries in africa ingested things such as iboga. Native Americans, South Americans and Aboriginal tribes used plants too. So please go and tell them all they are using the wrong way. Turks are NOT the root of every great thing that has ever happened. STOP this garbage I often here turkish people saying these things oh this came from turks originally bla bla. Well how about the idea that we all evolved from africa? You have posted your link. There are many valid teachers. SO how about YOU shut up.

I am curious recep do you keep things secret because if you published the source of your information you would realise that people would not listen to it as clearly it is not that great of a source of a wisdom. Furthermore I have used a drum to enter trance, it is clearly not the same thing as a drug that is often used once in a lifetime in certain tribes and goes through past life lessons, or stops heroin use in one usage. Would a satanic plant do that? Please stop this fearmongering garbage you post, perhaps you need some psychadelics as it wipes your operating system clean "which is why religious fearmongers" dont like it, and reduces the ego something you clearly need. Also what kind of spiritual master constantly threatens and warns people for discussing things.

some updates in oil..

I will admit to knowing very little about water/fire/wood etc so I researched a bit, for anyone talking about water method is better etc I thought this was an interesting read. On the Taoist "Pure Water Method" vs. "Water & Fire" Method of Alchemy Thoughts on the Mind as Fire Michael Winn I have often been asked to comment on the difference between the "Taoist Water Method" promoted by B.K. Frantzis and the "Water and Fire Method" (Kan and Li) of alchemy taught in the Healing Tao, originally transmitted by Mantak Chia. Kumar has published two books on his Taoist water meditation method in his Relax Into Your Being series (a great title, and very Taoist). The following comments are NOT a review of his books or the effectiveness of his meditation method, which I think are fine and a valuable part of the Taoist cultivation tradition. I consider Kumar Frantzis a good friend and colleague, and we have had deep discussions about this subject. But I think Kumar¹s introduction in his book is very misleading and inaccurate in its attacks on what he calls the Fire methods of alchemy in Taoism as being a false corruption of Lao Tzu¹s pure water method. Let me further preface my comments by saying I think Kumar is an excellent chi kung teacher, and has made valuable contributions to the American chi kung scene, especially on the use of movement as it relates to development of the energy body. I studied his six part chi kung system as well as his pa kua system, and edited his first book, Opening the Energy Gates of the Body. I think the Marriage of Heaven and Earth chi kung movement he got from his teacher Liu Hung Chieh is the best chi kung movement for opening the microcosmic orbit, although Kumar doesn't use it for that since he doesn't believe in "forcing" open those two water and fire channels. Here are a few of the points I've made to Kumar in the past about his alleged water method. Kumar has performed a valuable service by highlighting the water nature of many Taoist practices. He is not alone: see Alan Watts on Tao, The Watercourse Way. But he has performed an equal DISservice by trying to polarize the water and fire techniques into separate paths. This is essentially self-serving, a non-Taoist attempt to claim "my way is the best way, the true way of Lao Tzu" so buy my book and take my water method courses. Kumar¹s so called water method is actually not a pure water method, because no such thing exists. The core of his water teaching can be summarized as: "dissolve ice into water, dissolve water into vapor". BUT WHAT DO YOU NEED TO MELT THE ICE, AND CHANGE THE WATER INTO MOISTURE? YOU NEED FIRE. Kumar just doesn't name the fire; it is left unconscious. It is the fire of the mind focusing itself like a magnifying glass on the frozen body-mind tissues that dissolves the ice. There is no such thing as water operating purely by itself. The Five Elements are all interdependent, water cannot function without fire. In alchemy. My position is that if you are going to encourage the water-fire interaction, you are better off having both the fire and water elements made conscious. The Healing Tao practices begin with dissolving and have plenty of dissolving thruout: the Inner Smile is the prime practice here, but the Six healing Sounds, Fusion of the Five Elements and Kan and Li practices are all focused on dissolving. Kumar's claim that Dissolving is the trademark of the Water Method is equally true of the Water and Fire Method. Kumar is falsely separating the two. What he really is trying to say is "I use the Yin method, I don't force anything, I just allow it". I sincerely thank Kumar for advertising this point. It is perhaps the only virtue I find in his labeling his approach the Water Method (as opposed to the Kan and Li label, which means the Water and Fire Method). I think that this is a good thing to highlight, especially since westerners have a tendency to force, they are overly aggressive and they injure their chi this way or exhaust themselves with their own impatience. So Kumar, like Juan li and other Healing Tao instructors, have chosen to highlight the yin methods. Many instructors feel Chia overemphasizes the yang methods, and they have correctly changed their practice to suit themselves. I include myself in this category. But Kumar is confusing "forcing" with "Fire method". This is just a judgement on his part, and again a self-serving one that makes water look good by default. He is confusing Fire method by linking it with False Yang, when pure fire element should be linked instead with True Yang. All of the Taoist alchemical texts are unanimous is advocating true yang be cultivated. If I were to play Kumar's labeling game in reverse, I would start calling his approach the FROZEN WATER METHOD of Taoism and go about pointing out all the evils of yin and water chi that is stuck in the physical plane for lack of Fire. Is this not the historical condition that women are trying to liberate themselves from? The yin energy of the planet, frozen beneath the weight of patriarchy? But I would really be talking about False Yin, not True Water or True Yin, which is never stuck. But Kumar seems to ignore these important distinctions. Classically in China, you use both the Yin and Yang methods of regulating the Water and Fire. It depends on your body and mind type, on the season, on what you are working on, what you just ate, your phase of development, your age, your sex, etc. etc. This is the whole point of the I Ching: sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow. The I Ching never says: ONLY FOLLOW. If you only follow in the water style, this can lead to very slow progress at times. Sometimes you need more fire to transform your life or a situation. Only doing water practice can lead to stagnation and holding of water in the body. Physically, this results in overweight condition; psychically, it can result in unnecessarily slow spiritual progress. I emphasize this alternation between fire and water methods in all my Kan and Li teachings, and in the basics as well: when you don't have the attraction to doing a yang practice of guiding and interacting with the chi or your shen, then you simply do the inner smile and follow whatever happens. Do I dissolve first, or create first? I just ask before I start my meditation. Sometimes I start with a yang, self-guided meditation that lawfully manipulates the life force and helps to more quickly manifest my intention to work in a certain area. Then it may change in mid-stream, after I have connected to what I sought -- and I surrender to it. Is this a Fire or a Water Method? Why tie your hands with the labels? When I point this out to Kumar, he hastily defends by saying that the Water people use fire and water, they just do it in a watery way. If so, the very label "Water Method" starts to self-dissolve itself! Kumar's own teacher Liu taught another one of his Chinese students a fire method of meditation, suggesting that different approaches may be suitable for different folks. Was Kumar so fiery as a killer martial artist that Liu heavily emphasized the water method to him? I don't know, but it appears to have some merit. But no need to distort the entire corpus of Taoist practices to defend this choice. Kumar's claim that the water method has an exclusive on effortlessness is very misleading. It is the balanced interaction of Water and Fire that opens the gates of the Yuan Chi. When you practice from this energy, that is the true effortless state, wu wei, and it is neither water nor fire, yin nor yang. Again, a false advertising claim for the so called Water Method. It doesn't matter what approach you use to return to the Original Spirit, so why claim one is superior? The final point I wish to make about Kumar's alleged Water method is that I believe that it ignores certain aspects of refining chi found in the Water and Fire (Kan and Li) Method. Fire has many virtues which accelerate spiritual progress when cultivated, and these are essential to forming the Elixir. Kumar tells me that at the very end of his process the Fire suddenly emerges from the Water (the hidden middle line of the water trigram). The end may mean years or decades of water method cultivation. Fair enough. But why wait that long to enjoy the benefits of fire? It is like saying, "Don't cook your food, just eat it raw and your stomach fluids will naturally digest (cook) it". The Pure water method ideology, if you take it to its extreme logical end, is essentially anti-Fire technology and against all the uses Fire has brought to mankind, both internally (spiritually) and externally (spark plugs and combustion engines that "force" a change in the energy state of gasoline, etc.). Does Kumar walk everywhere to protest to use of fire combustion in car engines? Of course not. So why condemn use of fire in spiritual technology? I think it is more prudent to say, there are dangers when you play with Fire, better to approach Fire from a place of good understanding of the Water (=body, matter). The Kan and Li methods always place Water first for this reason -- it is the safest way to progress in the beginning. That is why students are better off learning through body movement (chi kung) in the beginning of their cultivation practice. But we still need to recognize the essential need for yang methods and true fire. Otherwise, you may get frozen into a position on the virtues of Water Only. Michael Winn ps. I invite Kumar to respond to the issue, and will post his reply when he does so..

well from taking peyote I stopped drinking alchohol, I started again for a tiny bit after feeling upset over a girl but a couple of times later fully stopped for a year...Also I saw other dimensions and really had zero fear of death, millions of epiphanies, if you have a desire in it, it is probably coming from somewhere following the wu wei you are the universe, whether you do it or not is what is meant to be

white wolf, if you want to experiment it usually wiser under the guide of a shaman, or sitter. Peyote, Iboga or ayuascha are safe if guided, what you see depends on whether the plant likes you, you should take it for a reason, not just to get high which I know your not, also these things are not to be taken in an addictive manner it is purely for growth reasons.