julianlaboy

Well, it's not supposed to be free, hehehe. The e-book version doesn't cost much, but we can work something out. I will send you a private message with the details.

And the volcano thing. I saw some news about "Tongagiro" or something like it. Apparently there have been an increase in earthquakes. That's scary!!

Awesome. This is better than what made me laugh earlier hehe...

Well, yeah, I love that type of countries. Another thing is... Earthquakes!! Damn that Ring of Fire! hehe

I've researched New Zealand a lot and it's on the top of every list that has something positive (happy people, good jobs, low crime, etc). Plus, I would love to study there because of the "international students pay the same that a national student pays" thing. You guys know best.

I think a broad type of thinking is very consistent with Taoism. I always insist that everyone should take what helps in whatever one is searching. It's very pragmatic. Again, just like Taoism.

Nice to meet you.

Hi there everyone.

 

I'm Jaimie, I'm from New Zealand and am new to all of this and I love it. I am learning so many new things it really is great. I look forward to learning more

 

Hi, kiwi-dude!!

You know, I would love to visit New Zealand! I kind of have my eyes on Wellington! The cost of life scares me, hehe.

Nice to meet you!

My thought was simply along these lines -- any arbitrarily complex "curve" (with squiggles and bumps and rolls and relative flat spots, etc.) can be composed of, or decomposed into, a number of less complex curves. Each of those less complex curves can similarly be viewed as composites, as well, until you reach a manageable level of complexity (whatever that means).

 

From this view, a fugue or a single musical note or an emotion or the Dow Jones Industrial Average (or most anything one can imagine) can be viewed as an ever-changing stimulus and/or response in which aspects seem to appear & disappear and change in "shape" over time, but in which patterns may often be discerned.

 

So, the options of "big chunks" or "always there" lead to the answer "it depends..."

 

Loved your answer. Reminded me of fractals and how we see them "change" just by changing perspectives.

Btw, I adore fugues. I play guitar and that is always the musical style that I enjoy the most. Multiple voices that sound as one tune if we change perspectives.

Maybe we'll never know with emotions. Tomatoes speaking of tomatoes... Hehe

While reading your post I tried to identify any emotional feelings I was having at the time. None.

 

Interesting what you suggest though.

 

Is there such a thing as being without emotion? (Just for a short period of time.) I think there is. This is when we are just be-ing.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love my emotions. But then, I do try to avoid the extremes in my old age.

 

It is said that the true Sage appears to be without emotion. Yes, I included the word "appears" intentionally. What a boring life it would be if we ever stopped having and feeling emotions. Well, sure, try to avoid the negative ones but in 'real' life we will have these too so we should experience them, recognize them for what they are (in all truthfulness) and then let them go.

 

Still no emotions going on right now but my butt hurts from sitting so long in front of this computer.

Haha, sorry for your butt...

Well, what about an emotion related to object properties, like curiosity (interest being the emotion)? I am sure it isn't "Oh wow, mind blowing interesting stuff here!!!!", but a lesser degree of "hmmm, I am interested in knowing if I have an emotion".

I also love my emotions.

I remember you. Nice talking with you again!

A Seeker, would you explain emotions in such a mathematical sense?

Hi everybody!

I wanted to see what are your opinions in a specific topic on emotions.

Are emotions big chunks that come and go (one is now happy, happiness goes; then one is sad, then it goes; then one is both happy and sad, and then it changes; and on and on...) or are they always present (it's always a matter of degrees)?

I have read a lot on the topic and I have decided for the former: to my understanding, emotions are always present. Emotions are basic in our everyday life and they come in degrees and those degrees are what create qualitative differences (happy, sad, etc.). When I say that I am happy, I think that it is because there is a bigger degree in what we may define as being happy (whatever that definition may be). The word emotions come from the word "movere" or to move or "exmovere", to show a move to the "outside".

I think this goes hand in hand with Taoist texts when they establish being in favor of being careful with extreme emotions. They do avoid emotions, just extreme emotions. The extreme may very well be referring to being careful with certain degrees of emotions. One may be mad sometimes, OK. But if one is mad and moves (emotions) on a way that harms something outside of him/her (emovere, move to the outside), then we may have a problem.

On the other end of the argument, when we are not happy or sad, or whatever, what is happening in terms of our movement? What happens to emotions? Aren't there always some kind of degree of emotions, consciously or unconsciously?

Someone calls oneself a Taoist may not be a true Taoist. BTW Anyone can call oneself a Taoist but has to be judged by one's action.

 

A true Chinese Taoist does not go to serve the State nor get involve with politics.

 

 

PS...

A true Chinese Taoist is someone that believes in the principles of the Tao Te Ching or belongs to a Taoist religion.

No problem with those definitions. There are various degrees of being called "Taoist". However, one must be careful with calling oneself a "true" Taoist. That sounds kind of pretentious, and that goes against what one tends to read on Taoist texts.

As for what a "true" Taoist may do, I have read the Taoist I-Ching, translated by Thomas Cleary, and it says that it is OK to participate in State affairs. When the times need it, when people need it, I don't see why a Taoist should not participate.

And as for your PS, I disagree because that same Tao Te Ching tells that one should not follow a text for the sake of following. By that I mean that one should not see that book as Christians see the Bible. Sometimes one needs it, sometimes one does not.

PS, I enjoy talking with you. I love your respect and I value your opinion.

Chapter 8

Translation in terse English:

1. High virtue is like water.

2. Water is good at benefiting all things without contend.

3. Attends places where people disdain.

4. Hence, water is similar to Tao.

5. Dwell in good selectable places,

6. Good deep in the heart with peace and kind to others,

7. Spoken words with trust,

8. Rule with benevolence,

9. Conduct affairs with best ability,

10.Take action in a timely manner,

11.Therefore, only by not contending,

12.Thus no resentment.

 

Isn't this a suggestion for what to do, emotionally, in a traffic jam. By flowing the principal of Lines 3 and 4 in Chapter 8 of the TAo Te Ching:

3. Water attends places where people disdain.

4. Hence, water is similar to Tao.

 

6. Good deep in the heart with peace and kind to others(by not getting upset with the traffic jam),

11.Therefore, only by not contending(with your temperament),

12.Thus no resentment.

I understand what you say. However, what about "he who talks, does not know; he who knows, does not talk"? "Talking" refers to what I was saying in my last post. Also, what about not following on the footsteps of someone because he/she is an "authority". The text may say that, but that text was an answer to the times, which there full of wars and corruption. Of course, there is always some kind of war or corruption, but I am talking about degrees here. Sometimes, people who called themselves Taoist went to live on woods (as the wonderful picture, sent by Sinfest, shows) because they felt that they could not be involved in such precarious times. At other times, people who called themselves Taoists went to serve the State. Who is a Taoist here, one who involves himself in State affairs, or one who goes to the woods to enjoy life there? We can read from Taoist texts that both are to be avoided and that both are good options. Which is the highest virtue? I believe it's difficult to answer that because we need more details about circumstances.

For the purposes of discussion

I think I agree with Chidragon today

in that one can say

as you see it ..

..either

what Taoism is

what it is not

 

You could be vague or precise , whichever you want

you could be very inclusive or exclusive etc

But there ARE meanings for the word and the practice

 

There are folks who consider themselves Taoist

and I for one consider myself to exist and I consider

my practice to exist.

 

Disagreements arising ?, sure, that happens.

If the your book takes a stance as undefined as your post here...

I dont think I will be reading it since it seems

you are reluctant to stand up and make your point.

Stosh

That's the wonderful thing about Taoism. The Chuang Tzu, for example, makes very interesting arguments in favor of our uncritical use of language (to go to the point that Benster started using). Before our language-world, we cannot define with a precise and absolute manner anything in what we call world. That's why "there is nothing" is such a famous phrase here.

Now, when we begin talking in the world of conventions (thanks to language, among other things), then we can come up with definitions, thanks to some consensus. You and your practice exist, I will not deny you that. You may call yourself "Taoist", good for you. I was just being careful with language here.

As I said before, the problem comes with absolute definitions. There are meanings out there. One just has to will a meaning and there it is. I made my point, you- in particular- needed more elaboration.

And regarding what you said about the book, that is OK by me. That wasn't for discussion here.

i agree with julianlaboy... as he said, its very paradoxical... that's because of language barriers... we think we are speaking of the same "thing" when thinking about "Taoists" but if we begin to question one another what "it" is, then disagreements may or will arise...

 

and julianlaboy, i read your book From Tao to Psychology! it was really nice! i am experienced in these topics and i was unsure if i wanted it because it is called "an introduction" but i went for it because i wanted to read the part of psychology... i wasn't disappointed and i learned a lot! thank you for that!

Well, Benster, I am extremely happy that you enjoyed the book. Thanks for all your kind words! I won't say much because I would feel like promoting it (spamming! noooo!), but really, thanks.

1 .What are the qualities of a Taoist....???

2. What is the first quality to be expected in a Taoist...???

3. If you want to be a Taoist, what do you need to do to become one...???

4. If you think that you are a Taoist now, what makes you think that you are one...???

5. Since you have thought that you are a Taoist, did you follow all the principles or have you ever violated any of these principles....???

 

You may respond by answering anyone of the question.

Any quality may be called "Taoist". Anyone can argue that they are "true Taoists" because they do "this" or "that". I don't think that absolute definitions are part of a Taoist perspective. Taoism typically holds that circumstances are what define everything in life. And of course, circumstances goes hand in hand with change. Sometimes someone will need (will it be useful?) a consistent and immutable definition, sometimes they won't.

It's kind of paradoxical because then "coupling with change" may become part of a consistent definition of Taoism...

BTW, Sinfest, I love your current image display. Korra and a huge hug! Excellent pick.

I am reading 'Self as Person in Asian Theory and Practice'. It's a really interesting compilation of a lot of articles. It has three big perspectives (and all three are a multiplicity of voices): Chinese, Japanese and Indian. The weird thing is that these perspectives have lots of things in common: for example, beliefs in multiple selves (although the word "self" and probably its existence is obviously a Western idea), belief in the context and thus in the plasticity and the changing aspect of these selves, among others.

I love everyone's sense of humor here!

So much to see, so little time!!

 

PS...

However, I do regret a term such as BS was used in a Taoist discussion environment before a mutual agreement was reached....!!!

I agree, it was kind of aggressive. But, he supports the "becoming an authentic human being" thing, so he probably did not meant any harm.

And I also agree with sinfest when he said that "Taoism is a religion, a philosophy, a religion/philosophy, and neither". I repeat, we will find the things we search for. "Taoism", "religion" and "philosophy" have origins and definitions, and because of those they are bounded. Taoist-type of thinking goes beyond origins and definitions because it is unbounded. At least, that is my opinion and interpretation.

It seems most times when Taoism is mentioned its pre-Lao Zi stage is rarely mentioned which was neither philosophy nor religion... if we keep going deeper they will eventually dissolve back to that state of oneness.

Exactly. Taoism is religion, philosophy, politics, and whatever we now see fit. That's the beauty of traditional Eastern perspectives: they believe so much in contexts and circumstances that absolute definitions are impossible to make. Because of that we do see a Chinese character for philosophy and another for religion. We may translate some characters with such concepts, but that's because of our limited arsenal of metaphors and concepts, especially we who translate from Western perspectives. I still sustain my belief that classical Taoism (Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu or other pre-Han dynasty thinkers) did not distinguished between religion and philosophy. They had a much more united way of life.

I believe that the concepts "religion" [religare or union with some divinity or divine power] and "philosophy" [love of reflection] are Western concepts. As such, they are inadequate as a description of an Eastern perspective, since they come with lots of connotations that do not hold for Eastern contexts. The problem is that it is really difficult, if not impossible, to be "outside" of our contexts. [i am assuming that almost everyone here come from Western perspectives]. So, if we cannot escape this, then Taoism can be both a religion and a philosophy. Coming from Western perspectives, my experience studying these topics taught me that what we look for, we find (Psychology calls it "priming").

[Edit] Forgot to mention: Exceptions from Western perspectives may be ChiDragon and LaoTzu, from this forum.

What do you both think of my opinions expressed here?

Someone said something about "the right Christians" and I agree. Not everyone is the same. I have some really good Christian friends, and they are very respectful and tolerant about other beliefs. I say "tolerant" because they ultimately believe that their view is the correct one, so they have to accept to live with "other" types of beliefs.

However, a Taoist perspective believes in harmony and respect for others. I am not saying "let everyone do to you whatever they please". But from there to spreading hate here, a principally Taoist forum, there is a long jump. Everyone has their opinion, of course, but I would stick to the Taoist motto "he who knows does not talk; he who talks does not know". If someone does something to you, I would recommend not continuing the circle of hate. At least do not make generalizations.

With that being said, peace to everyone.

My son makes rings out of dollar bills (or higher denominations). Sort of a less boring way to give money as a gift too.

Heeeey, that's not boring! Haha

It is kind of tedious if one wants to give money as a gift.

It's very relaxing, really! It also helps with motor coordination, eye perception, and other stuff.

I have two books on dollar bill origami and ended up cutting paper of that shape. Plus, I get to use different colors by cutting other kind of papers.

It gets kind of stinky if someone folds something out of money... Also, there are some models that require dollar bills because they make use of the images of the bill.

Nice! Someday I wish to sell some models in a website like Etsy, or maybe my own. I made earrings, but Christmas ornaments are also a great idea!

And as for models, this is the best that I have done. From a huge piece of paper, and with lots and lots of steps:

From Japanese Satoshi Kamiya, an "ancient dragon". (I wanted to stay in the "Eastern" theme)

(Edit: I can't see the image I just posted! how come?)

I'd like to learn that "new" (at least for me) wet paper folding

For wet paper folding, I use a simple sponge and a spraying bottle with water. From experience, I end up only applying water to the final model, since I use cheap paper

I spray some water, move the paper to a desirable shape and hope that it stays that way until it gets dry (some air would be good).

If you do have some good quality paper, spraying with water from the start would be awesome (at least until the square shape end ups being a trapezoid or weird round thing).

I probably just wrote what you already read somewhere else, but yeah, it is a great technique. My best work came from it (A mammoth by Satoshi Kamiya).

And yeah, so little time for so many great things!!