julianlaboy

Hi, everyone!

I love the interrelationship between mind and body. That sensation, when one feels in union to everything else, comes to me particularly when I fold paper to make some kind of animal or geometrical figure (or whatever else one can make out of a single square sheet of paper). What's your take on Origami? It is very relaxing. To me, it kind of feels like meditating!

Also, I did a "Google site" about it, if anyone wants to see it. It is in Spanish, but it has nice pictures and paper models. It is not for profit or popularity, just to share it with all of you.

http://sites.google.com/site/origamipuertorico/

That's probably very historically accurate! Haha!

I do not believe that the world of politics is a complete opposite. Nor do I believe that "politics" is a kind of synonym with "corruption". It is like a gun: by itself, it does almost nothing; it needs a being triggering (directly or indirectly) and almost always, it also needs an intention. I can open bottles with a gun or make a hole in a wall for hanging stuff. However, guns also have the capacity to kill people (I know that they were not invented for opening bottles...).

You said, "So, I removed myself from the political arena completely out of disgust. Now after several years of sitting outside of their mayhem, I can no longer tell who is who. I mean, they say completely different things, and make different promises, but it all just ends up in the same place. The type of people in power will (most likely) always be in power. To want power and hold on to power, you have to be ambitious."

I completely understand you. I no longer see the three parties because they are just three colors that represent the same thing: people who want power and be called the majority for more and better control of everything around them. Of course, I am not saying that every person that is into politics is the same way. However, the line between people who are and people who are not like that is very, very thin. And that is because one can indeed "is at the risk of losing self", as you said. That is, a self that relates to "others" in the harmonious and balanced way that I mentioned. One loses that self to replace it with an objective self, one that only keeps in mind that "they are not" a list of things that the "others" are. This easily brings competitive thinking and that easily can bring harmful oppositions.

You are also right when you said that times always have some kind of trouble. It is when it reaches a certain degree that I call it "troubled times". As I said, more than a thousand homicides in this year alone. I do not pretend to change everyone or a single individual. I just feel that some kind of action is necessary so that some kind of contribution to spreading peace could be attained.

I understand what you say, that "No matter what changes are made from the outside, there will still be some who want to impose their will forcefully" and that "The type of people in power will (most likely) always be in power". I do plan to move away, but that is because I wanted to finish some studies in another country. But it really bothers me that these politicians, the ones that were elected by the people of their own country, get away with so much.

Maybe it's me that ended up being really attached to what happens here. Anyway, I will end up moving out, but not without contributing something in the field of Education. I think that the best bet here would come from teaching, from early childhood to post-secondary levels, to work for a kind of place that is worth living for. So, that will cover two of your recommended things to do (although I will have to endure it also, since I am saving up some money for the "moving out" thing)

Oh!, and thanks for your observations!

I do not know how many facts people know from Puerto Rico, where I live. Right now, there are many many corrupt politicians in power. Also, there have occurred more than a thousand homicides in this year alone. Keep in mind the size of the island (35 miles X 100 miles) and that of the population (around 4 million).

With those facts, ti immediately came to mind the following quote: "When people are hard to control, it is because of the contrivances of their governments, which make them hard to control", Tao Te Ching.

I usually do not participate in political activities, since I really do not enjoy such competitions and since it is not in my nature to do much about it. However, things are getting out of control and I feel like I have to contribute some good deeds. I still do not like the idea of being involved in political acts, but these are troubled times and I want everyone to just get along and live in a more harmonious and balanced way.

What would you do in such a situation?

I've been thinking recently about the importance of music in daily life. The importance of listening and understanding the scientific effects it has over the mind and mood.

 

For me, there is also importance in playing. Closing your eyes and playing away for me has always had very similar effects to meditation.

 

Music has always been a way of conveying emotions more powerful than words. Words aren't always specific and powerful enough, but music notes are.

 

At the same time, the crappy repetitive music most people listen to now days is very unhealthy. It's simplicity allows for people to play it 24x7 a day and not give their mind any quiet to think.

 

I don't think there's any specific point I'm trying to make, just observations.

Music is wonderful, indeed. Its effects go from mind to body, and viceversa, since they are interrelated. And that's a relatively new science in the West, since the majority of people believed that a function of the mind could not change any part of the body. But it really does! A neuroscientist, by the name of Alvaro Pascual Leone, in 1995, did a series of studies with two groups of people: one group would practice a piano exercise with their hands, and another group would merely think about playing the piano exercise with their hands. Both groups created new neurological maps on their brains related to the exercise and music! So, thinking, and especially a very focused kind of thinking,can create changes in the body. And music, since it affects the mind, also changes the body. An explanation of that research can be found in Jeffrey Schwartz, a psychiatrist, and Sharon Begley's, a science journalist, book titled "The mind and the brain: Neuroplasticity and the power

of mental force" (2002).

What I wonder is whether repetitive music has a different effect on people than "more complex" musical melodies. I believe that that depends on the effect of that kind of music on a particular individual. I think that musical simplicity or complexity alone does not directly correlates with some kind of mind-body change. Focused attention, what a person enjoys most, and other environmental and individual factors have to be in a kind of harmony so a to change the physical and mental health of a person. That of course is my opinion and what certain western and eastern scientists and thinkers believe.

Very interesting!

This just in! http://www.lafayette.edu/about/news/2011/11/28/the-neuroscience-of-music-course-explores-how-song-can-help-heal-the-brain/

News about this topic!

The principle with Psychology are all spelled out in the Tao Te Ching. It is a matter of study it with comprehension. Then, one cultivate it with self discipline, the manners will be within ourselves spontaneously.

I agree with you that the Tao Te Ching is a very psychological text, among other things.

I also agree with you that this post has served its purpose. I was thinking of changing this post to the Discussion part of the forum soon ... will do.

Question: You have told me about the process of the work, but I don't know all the different terms- please instruct me.

Answer: The different terms are just symbols- none are beyond body and mind.

[From: The Book of Balance and Harmony; translated by Thomas Cleary, 2003, p. 400]

Marblehead, that is some pretty funny stuff there. Haha. Sorry to read about your encounter with the black-hole there.

And ChiDragon, thanks! What do you think about Taoism teaching Psychology some manners?

Since you prefer clean vocals, I'd recommend checking out Ayreon and Symphony X. Ayreon does expansive concept albums using lots of guest vocalists (including greats like Bruce Dickinson!) Symphony X also does the concept album thing, but they vary it up a little more than Rhapsody does (imo).

I have 1 or 2 CD's of Symphony X and they do vary it up a little more than Rhapsody. I am excited because now we are going to have two bands: Rhapsody of Fire (with the guy on keyboards as leader) and Rhapsody (with guitarist Luca Turilli as leader).

And, I had not heard of Ayreon. I am hearing it now and it sounds very interesting! Thanks, I will listen to it more to see if it sticks!

Ever heard of Taake? Great Finnish metal band.

 

Amon Amarth are the best Viking themed metal IMO. I like Enslaved, but they are a bit too experimental for me. Twilight of the Thunder God is one of their best.

 

My favorite non mainstream metal band were precursors to modern day black metal! MERCYFUL FATE!

 

 

Love 'em.

 

 

While the lyrics are very immature and silly to me now, I still love the groove, that will never change.

Ok, I have listened all of them. The thing with Taake is that I do not like so much screaming in my songs. Amon Amarth had good melodies, but I also do not like very much the guttural sounds. Sorry, difference of opinion here.

Mercyful Fate was better, in my opinion.

And in the case of lyrics, the same happens to me with Rhapsody/Rhapsody of Fire. They sing about stories that they create. I kind of do not like very much that, because with such great melody and harmony between instruments, they should have some meanings. Well, they do have meanings, but they make the stories for the sake of the stories, instead of making them to teach something, as it happens with the analogical thinking of Taoism. Still, I really recommend their music.

You know what? After I started reading Taoist texts, I began to read a lot less than I used to. If I questioned myself about it, I always replied "because I am busy enjoying life". I even thought that after reading Taoist texts, I read everything that I had to read! Such common sense, IMO (Ha! See? Now I know how and when to use it).

Those kind of texts definitely bring change to those who pay close attention to and practice their content.

Still, I do enjoy from time to time some books about different topics. Although, when you see a commercial about an upcoming documentary about the microcosm, please tell me about it!

Yeah, I enjoy watching documentaries of such topics although I don't actually study them. Very interesting stuff for me.

 

(If you haven't already noticed I am a believer in evolution so the concept you mentioned above is consistent with my understandings.)

Well, I think you may enjoy this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Microcosmos-Billion-Years-Microbial-Evolution/dp/0520210646/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322237990&sr=1-2

Its perspective is evolutionary and it is a sort of history of life. I think they argue in favor of the mitochondrial DNA example that we talked about. Just in case you feel like reading something like that

Ever heard of Taake? Great Finnish metal band.

 

Amon Amarth are the best Viking themed metal IMO. I like Enslaved, but they are a bit too experimental for me. Twilight of the Thunder God is one of their best.

 

My favorite non mainstream metal band were precursors to modern day black metal! MERCYFUL FATE!

 

 

Love 'em.

 

 

While the lyrics are very immature and silly to me now, I still love the groove, that will never change.

I'll search for them and will tell you about my experience later!

I enjoy a lot Rhapsody of Fire. For example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH4HIn5Pfvg

That kind of metal I call "Viking Metal" because I always imagine vikings sailing on ships, drinking beer and being all viking-y like...

Some types of metal make me smile or even calm my thinking. I think that alone is worth something.

And good luck with the taoist band and the 40 minute album of silent meditation, Hahaha.

Del genero reggaeton:

 

Ven, bailalo - Angel y Khris

Scandalous -

Dile (Cuentalo) - Don Omar

La Doncella - Zion y Lenox

dorshugla, are you from Puerto Rico?

And to everyone else, I hear a lot of Rhapsody/Rhapsody of Fire, Vivaldi, Blind Guardian, Michiru Yamane, among others...

I accept this as holding some truth. But I add that it is passed from mother to offspring via the mother's DNA. Of course, I might be completely off the wall but that is the only way I can understand the concept of "collective unconsciousness".

Yes, it has been said that a possible mechanism that explains it is mitochondrial DNA, since it is the one that stays more or less untouched from generation to generation.

By the way, and here I am going to another topic, I was amazed to find out about the possibility of that type of DNA to be what was ages ago another organism! Then, we are a product of two organisms uniting to form a new whole. That is wonderful. Some biologists argue that that is why we have the traditional DNA and mitochondrial DNA. Props to nature...

Well, your English is quite well, IMO.

 

Yes, I am sure Clinical Psychology could easily become rather boring, and even depressing if one involves themself too deeply with the patients. Could become very self-indulgent as well. But then, if we can help someone then I think we should.

 

Hehehe. I sure wish you folks would stop belittling yourself. We are all special. It is just that we oftentimes have difficulty finding where we are supposed to be in this life and how to go about doing what we can do best. And regretfully, it is becoming harder now-a-days what with everyone telling us what we should do but yet no doors are left unlocked so that we might enter and find a place to call 'ours'.

See? I had to look for "IMO" in the urban dictionary. Hehe.

And yeah, cheers to helping anyone!

Yes, simplistic thinking can and does reduce anything and everything to something no longer resembling the original.

 

Jung's work, as you know, is all about individuation, so it is a system geared for growth and change.

 

You will find taoism also contains 'categories' or 'delineations' or 'typology'. It is a way to anatomise our experience and work with it.

 

The temptation to label and fix as static is a lazy one, indeed.

In my opinion, Jung was not all about individuation. He does accept some growth and change, but it is growth and change that occurs inside a set of specific Archetypes. Those, I believe, are inborn forms of intuition and necessary determinants of all psychic processes. Those, together with Instincts, form a "collective unconscious", a term concerned with universal and inherited contents that go beyond the personal and the individual. I also believe those to be static labels.

By the way, I am not saying that he was lazy. We can all learn a lot by reading his texts.

On the other hand, I agree that Taoism does contain certain 'typologies'. However, in my opinion also, if referring to Classical Taoism, those 'categories' or 'types' are based on an analogical or correlative kind of thinking (here, I know, I am using another typology so as to anatomize our experience, as you said) vs what I was referring to and criticizing in my last comment, a causal kind of thinking (I believe Jung argues in favor of this last one). With analogical or correlative kind of thinking I support Roger Ames and David Hall's idea that states that here we see an acceptance of change or process over rest and permanence and that it "[...]seeks to account for states of affairs by appeal to correlative procedures rather than by determining agencies or principles" (1995, p.xviii). By contrast, Jung's collective unconscious' (instincts and archetypes) ultimate end are rest and permanence of specific patterns of behavior and thinking. Another example is his use of Mandalas: he accepts change in us, but that comes to an ultimate end of a fixed and static "self".

I am not saying that one idea or the other is correct. I accept multiple "truths" and interpretations of our world, or worlds. The problem is like that of a weapon in the wrong hands. It is like the saying that a gun does not kill people because it is people that kill people. Some theories, in the wrong hands, tend to do harm. For example, Hitler made use of the concept of collective unconsciousness and transformed it into a "collective shadow" (an inflated ego that makes one evil) that he later projected onto Jews.

It took me a whole hour to write this. Haha.

The thing is, I want to be extra careful because I do not want to be seen as problematic or something like that. I do share a lot of ideas and values with members of this forum, including you (cat). You know, I worry, hehe.

Don't forget the corollary to that -

reality creates us.

Both truths coexist.

Kudos, there.

In that particular topic, I really like the works of Chilean biologist Humberto Maturana. He calls that "structural coupling". I know, fancy name for "we create the world and the world creates us", but I like Academia

We create our worlds because of what we are (mind-body). But, the world sets the conditions for us to be what we are and it is because of that that, in turn, it creates us. And it is not a "what came first" kind of question. It is a simultaneous process. At least, that's my opinion also...

Hehehe. I'm just feeling you out. Gotta' know what kind of communications we are going to be having.

 

Oh!, I know I am hard-headed. It's not a problem for me.

 

I never know for sure where I am going to be coming from in any of the discussions I participate in. Aaron knows me pretty well and I am sure he wasn't surprised by my post.

 

Anyhow, yes, nice to have you here. I am sure your knowledge will be of benefit of many of the members here. Some really need a lot of help. Hehehe.

I really do not like Psychology that much, after all. At least Clinical Psychology. It is probably the "tell me your problems and I will tell you what to do" kind of thing that sets me off. So, I will not be beneficial in helping some of the members, as you said. Haha.

By the way, this is a challenge to me because I am not used to writing in English! If the first guy said that he was nothing, I am less than that in here!

hey, please do not misinterpret me... I was not making fun of you for the MarbleHead thing. I appreciate all of your comments, really! It was just that I saw the first comment from a positive perspective. As it says in your signature, peace

I can and sometimes will be that kind of marbleheaded as you mentioned. Anyway, I will eat now.

thanks! I am enjoying this site a lot...

What is novelty? Taoist teachings support shared ideas, values and words. At least, that is what I interpreted from my reading of different texts, which also contained other people's interpretations.

And a friendly question: Do you care about this topic? I assume that at least unconsciously you do, since you keep reading it.

Sorry, I am replying to the one called "MarbleHead" that likes short skirts and bikinis...