Jimmerino

Hi, Is there anyone who can describe, based on personal experience, the route of chi as it moves through the lower abdomen and pelvis in the macrocosmic circle? Both in the upward and downward flows? The Mantak Chia books aren't very specific on this, and I'm looking for clarification. Thanks!

I know about "Up the back, over the head, down the front, pass the perinium and start again". Two problems: First, that's not the macrocosmic orbit (which includes limbs), it's microcosmic. Second, I'm looking for greater detail on the pathway (the literal, scientific, anatomical pathway) throw the pelvis and into the legs. Not just in broad terms. For example "through the pelvis" would not be what I'd consider detailed. I'm asking this of people who've personally opened and worked in this channel. They should be able to explain it from personal experience. I'll also try posting to JoeBlast, thanks.

Hi, ChiDragon, thanks for the reply! But I'm looking for specific pathway on how the chi moves, rather than the direction. I'm hoping someone with a nice open macrocosmic orbit pathway can explain.

It's frequently warned not to do kundalini cultivation exercises while working on kunlun. I understand the thinking....one aspect of kunlun is cultivation of rising fire, which it does in a balanced way (i.e. in conjunction with downward watery grounding). So doing other fire cultivation in parallel might upset that balance and lead to unexpected consequences. It makes sense! But....what about those who've already awakened kundalini? For whom kundalini is active without effort or any cultivation exercises? Would it be a mistake for us to engage in kunlun? My kundalini has been awakened for a few years, and all is pretty well, but I'd like some of the grounding kunlun seems to offer.

Yes, always a good idea! Try to drink water at room temp if you have any lung or asthma issues. Also, spiritual practice can concentrate the urine (says AYP), so don't be TOO alarmed. The process of opening and awakening is the same for all, in the big picture. But the particulars of the unfolding are unique for each of us. The issues that challenge me may not be the issues that challenge you. Or they may challenge you later. Or not! We can only speak from our own experiences. And there are others sharing my experience. It has nothing to do with fragility. And the solution isn't to simply tough up and take it when there are legitimately worrisome problems becoming apparent. That is counter to ahimsa. Hey, I'd like to open up as much as I can in this lifetime, and while I have zero desire for immortality, I need to preserve the vessel for a while so I can continue working! God? Words are just words. Insofar as we're going to discuss, we do have to try to make them work for us, but I try not to overly define, distinguish, and catalog. That tendency is one of the things that slightly turns me off some of the Taoist methods....though I obviously come crawling back when I need to benefit from all that great know-how and scholarship!

I agree with a lot of what you say, but let me state some disagreements. Kundalini (shushumna and all the way up, btw) definitely is huge firey yang. I don't really think that's very up for debate. And big firey yang dries up water, i.e. kidneys. That's pretty well established too. And while you're right that my kidney problem likely preexisted...it was undoubtedly worsened by kundalini. Michael Winn, who started as a kundalini yogi, was the person I went to and who helped me understand that weakened kidneys - more or less equivalent to lack of grounding - are very often a consequence of lots of rising kundalini, and have been a big issue for me. I agree that what you call "trance" (I call silence or stillness or samadhi) helps accommodate and balance energy. But sometimes the energy's too gushing to fully keep up with. And when you really really let go in meditation, it can be extremely energizing....hence my predicament, where all roads seem to lead to overenergization. I do agree a LOT with your point that we overemphasize our own role. A LOT! In fact, that's sort of the Big Problem, isn't it?

Interesting, yes, but not so accurate, at least in my experience. I had no hearing issues before K, have been examined by an ear doctor who says I seem perfectly normal, and I have buzzing in BOTH ears. When the energy is really flowing, the sound immediately swells, and when I skip meditation for a few days or otherwise get mired in worldly stuff, it fades. There seems to be a very direct relationship, so I'm pretty comfortable in attributing cause/effect. Also, the requirement that the sound herald "altered states of consciousness" seems off to me, for a number of reasons I'd rather not digress into.

I have kidney weakness as the result of the yang kundalini energy (one of the cause/effects that has me pursuing grounding solutions). But fwiw my ear buzzing is rather high-pitched. Of course, everything's relative, so maybe it's not as high as it could be. Or is it possible you have it backwards...?

Gino, your issues deserve their own discussion. And that might be most appropriate on a yoga forum,, since yogis seem to have more focus of kundalini. A good one is the site mentioned by many others in this thread, AYP http://www.aypsite.org/forum . There's a forum there, and you'll be well advised. One quick note: ringing in the ears (more often a high-pitched buzzing) is very much a kundalini symptom. It's the energy coursing by your ear canals. It drove me, too, to a hearing test where I was pronounced ok. Knowing that nothing's actually wrong, it doesn't bother me much. Matt, many thanks for your kind, thorough reply. Kundalini awakening was several years ago, so I'm not, like, in the first blush of some sort of horrific grounding meltdown . And I WAS doing practices (am a longtime yogi), just not deliberately cultivating kundalini, per se. I agree with just about everything you said. It's not that I'm questing for a new practice so much as wanting to resolve my continuing imbalance (not horrific...just sort of lingering). I've tried lots of little techniques and "hacks", and it's definitely helped, but I always have my antenna up...and that's how I found out about kunlun. And I'm definitely proceeding cautiously...e.g. starting this thread! Regarding this: "I think the danger in doing a complete system or anything post awakening (the caveat) is in our little mind trying to regain control of that which is to be surrendered to." Boy, you said it. But that's true before, during, after...at any stage of anything we do. "I" want to take credit for it all...want to frame and name the experience....want to use it to fortify the imaginary boundary between my skin bag and What Is. Even my recognition of this silly process can feed the process (awareness of pride leads to pride of awareness). As I said in my intro posting on the "Lobby" board, higher power comes from a higher power, and "I" have very little to do with it...though my individual ego mind will gladly take credit for that which is achieved via its restraint!

Oh, yes, I forgot to add, above: it's ALSO fine with me if you assume I haven't the slightest notion of kundalini, yoga, or the spiritual path. If there's any other way I need to prove myself, please deem me irredeemably failed so we can move past the invaluable contemptuous debunking phase and return to using this thread to answer my question.

Like most of these things, when you hear it it sounds simple....but it has to be done right, done at the right time, and not overdone. But the quick version is you comfortably roll your eyes upward. No idea if it's the same as Red Phoenix. Many roads lead to the same end.

Hi, bums. I'm a practitioner of yoga and a (longtime) dabbler in Taoist practice. Why did I choose yoga as my practice instead of the Taoist techniques? Because I'm someone who loves to tinker with his energy, who thirsts to "figure it all out", and who quietly harbors a superman complex. And all those things, in my view, are facilitated by Taoist practice. So I decided to go the other way. Yoga has taught me: to "let" rather than to "do". to see that peace and happiness (let alone transcendence) can't come from "figuring things out". and to discover that higher power comes from a higher power, and "I" have very little to do with it...though my individual ego mind will gladly take credit for what is achieved via its restraint! But sometimes knowledge and tinkering is required to solve a particular problem. That's what the mind's good for...figuring out specific concrete problems. And there is no more insightful knowledge about body and energy systems than the Taoist teachings. So I'm grateful for all I've learned from Taoist practice, and stop in here from time to time to see what y'all are doing. If someone will approve me, I have a question I'd like to post about kunlun and kundalini. Thanks!

Absolutely. All roads lead to everything opening eventually! But there are several mentions of the primacy of crown opening in Max's book, and no mention of maintaining sambhavi mudra (the standard method of "deviating" to ajna in lieu of direct-to-crown), so your experience is likely to do with preparation you've done in the past. Just speculating!

Ah, thanks. Cool software mod! Thanks for the welcomes/replies.

Thanks, Yoda and Trunk. Yoda, I've already paid my $20 for the book. Also, interesting that you mention the crown vs ajna issue. Max seems to indicate in several passages of the book that this is a crown-opening practice, which is another concern. Pero, as I said: grounding.

Ha. Well, first, kundalini awakening has nothing to do with enlightenment. And lots of people have awakened kundalini. And it's truly not that big a deal. And yes, I know you were being ironic. But since I'd rather not divert and digress a topic I'm seriously interested in exploring, let me reply to your final question by saying that I'm absolutely 100% ok with the assumption that I'm 1. cuckoo-for-cocoa-puffs out of my mind, or 2. a sad little man trying to show off on the internet, or 3. somehow gullibly deluded. I can be anything but truly kundalini awakened. That's ok. But humor me. If anyone (Chris? Max-via-Chris?) has insight to offer, please bring it forth.