damdao

I think sudden enlightenment is a xing experience. But even admiting sudden enlightenmet after that comes gradual cultivation, as zen says. Besides there is a wide variety, levels and focuses of enlightenments, not all mutually compatible. Neidan (in its broader sense) try to cultivate at the same time xing and ming, and in the Wuliu and Yuxian Pais the first step is about ming practice and it shoul follow the heaven pattern, the cycles, growing and waning of yin and yang, etc.

I think it is a necessary step but not the goal. What it is necessary is the dixian stage, what it is not needed is to remain in the same body endlessly. In fact, I don't think there is such kind of thing because people try to reach higher levels of xianhood.

Perhaps in some paths. In Zhong-Lü tradition it is the first level of Xianhood.

Well, lets say that, in theory, immortality (in its broadest sense) is union of xing and ming and its ulterior development. So, once they are united this is the first step, but you have more steps. In this sense a lesser immortality is a side effect, it is not the goal, but it is not an accident or something like that.

Very well said!

I think we can wonder what time and times are needed at all. Time is in the very core of practice and should be not dismissed. Either to follow it or to conquer it. So in this vein we have in Sant Mat we have to overcome Kal o relative time. In Buddhism one of the most advanced teachins is called Kalacakra, Wheel of Time, or Cycles of Time. Patañjali too speaks about knowing the minutest subdivision of time (ksana) as a very achievement. Chinese either in medicine or in neidan follow the way (among others) of four season, namely: plant a seed, growing a plant, colletcs the fruits and store them. This is one of the main reason for those schedules that are traditional in chinese thought and schools. Because "time" is not only duration but the several processes that happen inside those periods, mainly.

Well, technically I don't called her childish but her way of argument. I was speaking about an attitude not the person. Don't misconstruct that. Besides, I included that word on purpose, otherwise there would be no insults, less attacking.

This days this is your mantra: "attacking by name". Do you know what that means? If not, use the dictionary. I am not attacking you I am oposing your trolling. What do you know about other people's minds? Why not you look at your heart? You began endless threads attacking with irony and without arguments and when someone says something against your childish way of argument you claim being attacked and delete his posts.

Again, wuliupai is not about moving post heaven qi.

Oh, no. You are wrong. Who accuses someone has the duty to demonstrate his/her accusation to be true. The accused is innocent until his guilty is proved. So, instead of barking provide facts.

Again and again, this is not wuliu methods at all. You are not saying the truth, you are talking about an experience, not the truth. Besides, the patriarch of the school warns against that practice. So, don't do it. In wuliupai, methods are not the central part, the core is the relationship teacher student and the transmision from heart to heart. So, there is no wuliu practice from books or qq friends. I others pais methods are more central.

I have no problem with an honest checking or discussion but as you said, there was only irony without textual support. (I even provide her and her followers with good pages in which they can trace word and expressions in the daozang). Plus, quoting articles not at all related to the discussion, perhaps hoping that people not reading chinese believe what she says only because she can provide a link. In a discussion about the expression "dharma whhel" (http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42915-how-do-we-treat-the-influence-of-wu-liu-pai-to-modern-society/) after turning the whole point on my personal achievements (lack of them, on her clairvoyant view) instead on the origin of such expresion my last post was deleted, of course, being a Personal practice forum she has her rights but it seems to me that this reflects a totally ill-willed disposition.

Why are you miscontructing what happened? Awaken's post is far from being a "mention".

And you try to use some general assertion as a proof against Wuliupai:

Seeing that you repeat this again and again and again and then you write "their truuuuuuuue teacher" "makers of money" "fake 傳承" I wonder why you have no register at all about what you say. Perhaps you are candid or...

Many mahayana texts were in fact chinese from the beginig, they are called chinese apocrypha. So, even without muslim conquest in the north you will never find a sanskrit original of some renowned mahayana sutras. https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Buddhist-Apocrypha-Buswell-Robert/dp/8170303419

As far I know TCM can movilize yuan qi for therapeutic purposes. I have heard of some intepretations about accesing the eight extraordinary channels in order to treat constitutional illnesses (and then Jeffrey Yuen went on comparing those with gentetic illnesses and changing ming or destiny etc. etc.), very interesting. But what neidan looks for (in one of its sateges) is to replenish yuan jing and here is where it parts ways with TCM. Today there are researches in Classical Chinese Medicine and H. Fruehauf has interviewed "the salt doctor" who was an alchemical physician but I don't know if in this branch of chinese medicine something is said about restoring yuan treasures.

If with "high level" you mean social status remember that Ge Hong ask for a lowly bureaucratic job in order to be transferred to a region with cinnabar (or other alchemical substance). So even being high class does not guarantee an acces to rare alchemical ingredients.

Interesting reading! Let's not forget that superior and inferior are not moral adjectives so nothing wrong is with inferior virtue. In fact it is a question of integrity we have no election about one or the other. If we are whole we can try superior virtue paths but if we are not whole we can't, we need to become whole again. This is replenishing... etc. If you have at hand read Cultivating the Tao by Liu Yiming, p. 117. About wuwei vs. youwei, I think that all spiritual paths are a mix between both. For instance, in zuowang you need intention to learn it (and unlearn psychological patterns), intention to sit even intention to relax and let go. Then, if wuwei rises you can practice (?!) wuwei. The same is valid for certain neidan practices. Here an interesting fragment of Liu Yiming, trad. Pregadio, p. 117:

Well, 真人 is not only a polite title, in fact most of times it indicates a level of work. Walker said about the second post: No explanation at all. Can you provide one? You keep repeating that you want practice the real dan and so on, then you must continue with your personals post in the PPF section, instead you keep opening threads against a school (about which you know nothing) in this childish way. This is not a serious or honest discussion at all.

Well, this is not accurate to say the less. You have Zhao Bichen's Traité d'alchemie et de psychologie taoïste, edited and translated by Catherine Despeux and she even quotes wuliupai members from Taiwan. Your argument "even Chinese..." is not a valid one, Chinese don't know many things it is not about nationality, it is about study, practice and be in touch with the right people.

Well, for the record, sillybear is not from the school that you like to deprecate with the "truuuuuuuuue teacher". He is from a Longmen Pai tradition. But you have the skill to turn angry all pai together...

I know Zhang's quote but I wanted to know about real mercury which is used in Indian alchemy. Today still exists Chinese external alchemy applied to medicine and I know they use elixirs, salt, etc. but I don't know if methods of turning mercury in a non toxic substance (through multiple sublimations) are openly aknowledge as in ayurveda or tibetan medicine.

I "just not proved anything" and it does not explain anything. It is the normal rethoric about daoism being inferior and it is an attack (though not a personal one, of course):

Being the Shurangama sutra a Chinese apocrypha is not strange that some paragraphs were against Daoism. On the other hand, what I was thinking about related to the Hakuin story is that if some individual has books pertaining to the three teachings then he must be a Daoist, be it quan zhen, nan zong, wuliu or some other daoist school but buddhist or confucianist doing the same were more scarce. Only neoconfucianism endevoured something similar to a syntesis between the three teachings.